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      08-02-2013, 12:16 PM   #1
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I'm having my car aligned after I installed the H&R sport springs a few weeks ago (waited for them to settle)

I've settled on the following alignment targets

0.1 degrees toe out in the front

0.2 degrees toe in in the rear
-2.0 degrees camber in the rear

I'll post the results from the hunter when I'm get them. I'm doing an Autocross class this weekend then another Autocross the following Sunday. I'll let you guys know what I think of the settings.

Anybody else F'd with their alignment yet? Anyone have a spec they like that they want to share?

Last edited by utenigma; 08-02-2013 at 03:37 PM..
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      08-02-2013, 02:23 PM   #2
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Ok, done

Front camber (because of the H&R Sports) has increased neg camber from -0.4 to -0.6 degrees - gotta love lower
Front toe set to 0.15 degrees of total toe out

Rear camber read -1.5 degrees, we were able to get -2.0 degrees with no problem
Rear toe is now 0.20 total toe in

Car does feel a little more eager to turn - we'll see how it goes tomorrow

(btw, front/rear initial readings
Front 0.24 degrees initial toe in
Rear 0.47 degree initial toe in
ridiculous)

Last edited by utenigma; 08-02-2013 at 02:29 PM..
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      08-03-2013, 11:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
Ok, done

Front camber (because of the H&R Sports) has increased neg camber from -0.4 to -0.6 degrees - gotta love lower
Front toe set to 0.15 degrees of total toe out

Rear camber read -1.5 degrees, we were able to get -2.0 degrees with no problem
Rear toe is now 0.20 total toe in

Car does feel a little more eager to turn - we'll see how it goes tomorrow

(btw, front/rear initial readings
Front 0.24 degrees initial toe in
Rear 0.47 degree initial toe in
ridiculous)
Sweet as, that's similar to my set up!
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      08-04-2013, 08:27 PM   #4
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Autocross went really well - I could defiantly tell a difference in the slalom elements. Direction changes were much quicker and very balanced

On the freeway there's little change. It's no longer dying to go straight forward all the time, but there's not enough toe-out to make the car darty by any stretch of the imagination. Defiantly acceptable for daily driving.

Steering input at lower speeds seemed to lightened up with the new alignment, about back to where it was before I put 245's on the front.

As for tire wear, it was every bit as hot this weekend as it was last month - my front tires last month showed over 200 degrees internal temperature, this time they didn't get over 165. In fact when we'd been working the car quite a bit, both the front's and rears were within 5 degrees of each other (instead of the gross imbalance we saw last month)

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Sweet as, that's similar to my set up!
Forgiven, what spec are you running?
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      08-05-2013, 12:36 AM   #5
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Car is all stock except OE Camber bearing installed onto DHP M sport suspension.
Front Camber
Driver side: -.93 deg
Passenger : -.77 deg
Front Toe : .1 deg on both side out(edit)

Rear Camber
Driver side: -2.1 Deg
Passenger : -1.95 Deg

Upcoming/ordered: Yoko ADVAN 245/40/18 will be slap on OZ Alleggerita HLT 18x8.5
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      08-07-2013, 09:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
Autocross went really well - I could defiantly tell a difference in the slalom elements. Direction changes were much quicker and very balanced

On the freeway there's little change. It's no longer dying to go straight forward all the time, but there's not enough toe-out to make the car darty by any stretch of the imagination. Defiantly acceptable for daily driving.

Steering input at lower speeds seemed to lightened up with the new alignment, about back to where it was before I put 245's on the front.

As for tire wear, it was every bit as hot this weekend as it was last month - my front tires last month showed over 200 degrees internal temperature, this time they didn't get over 165. In fact when we'd been working the car quite a bit, both the front's and rears were within 5 degrees of each other (instead of the gross imbalance we saw last month)
Sounds great - never thought about it before, but the fact that the tire temps were consistent is probably a really good empirical indication of the car's overall balance when pushed hard... very encouraging
Are you running a square set-up with 245s all around?

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Originally Posted by Forgiven View Post
Car is all stock except OE Camber bearing installed onto DHP M sport suspension.
What is this exactly? I have heard of the OE -30min front knuckles (which add -0.5 degrees of camber) - is this what you did as well, or something else?
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      08-08-2013, 09:45 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by DVCperformance View Post
Sounds great - never thought about it before, but the fact that the tire temps were consistent is probably a really good empirical indication of the car's overall balance when pushed hard... very encouraging
Are you running a square set-up with 245s all around?
Yes, 245/40/R18 Bridgestone RE-11As on all four corners
http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831520
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      08-08-2013, 09:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by DVCperformance View Post
What is this exactly? I have heard of the OE -30min front knuckles (which add -0.5 degrees of camber) - is this what you did as well, or something else?
Yeah forgiven has that on his car

To avoid confusion, BMW calls that part a "Swivel bearing"
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      08-08-2013, 10:32 AM   #9
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Looks like the front camber numbers are stacking up pretty consistently:
Stock: -0.4
Lowered ~ 1": -0.6
Stock height/camber bearing: -0.9

So I guess with the camber bearing as well as an inch of drop, I could expect about -1.1 degrees of front camber.

With regard to the rear camber, would you guys advise dialing in as much as possible during the alignment? I read somewhere that the ideal would be to have front camber numbers equal to (or even exceeding) rear camber numbers, but maybe that's only practical for a skilled track driver on a track-only car (?)
To that end, with the camber settings at > -1, would you still advise a square wheel/tire set-up? Or would a slightly wider rear be appropriate with more front camber?
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      08-08-2013, 12:10 PM   #10
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If we had camber plates, I'd be running about 1 degree of camber less in the rear than in the front

Assuming I could get there, I'd run -3.0 in the front -2.0 in the back and stick with the square setup

Unless you're drag-racing it's front-end grip that we need to make the car balanced. Too much rear grip and the cars get pushy under power

I agree with this guy's take for aligning e36 M3's
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...or-your-E36-M3

Weight bias on the F30 and suspension geometry isn't significantly different. The 335 is a little more nose heavy which puts even more importance on front-end grip. Until we get plates and test though, it's all a theoretical conversation.
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      08-08-2013, 01:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
I agree with this guy's take for aligning e36 M3's
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...or-your-E36-M3

Weight bias on the F30 and suspension geometry isn't significantly different. The 335 is a little more nose heavy which puts even more importance on front-end grip. Until we get plates and test though, it's all a theoretical conversation.
Great post by that link - thanks. (I didn't see it in the write up, but I assume the author probably runs a square setup... )
So it seems like adding -0.5 degrees (or even 2-3x more than that) of camber is certainly not enough to warrant looking for more rear tire width.

Is there any reason why you haven't gone with the OEM camber bearings yet?

* Edit: Just posted an update on the Camber Plate availability thread
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      08-08-2013, 11:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forgiven View Post
Car is all stock except OE Camber bearing installed onto DHP M sport suspension.
Front Camber
Driver side: -.93 deg
Passenger : -.77 deg
Front Toe : .1 deg on both side out(edit)

Rear Camber
Driver side: -2.1 Deg
Passenger : -1.95 Deg

Upcoming/ordered: Yoko ADVAN 245/40/18 will be slap on OZ Alleggerita HLT 18x8.5
Changed my tire order to BF Goodrich Rival Very excited, it should be the stickiest street tire!
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      08-09-2013, 09:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utenigma View Post
I'm having my car aligned after I installed the H&R sport springs a few weeks ago (waited for them to settle)

I've settled on the following alignment targets

0.1 degrees toe out in the front

0.2 degrees toe in in the rear
-2.0 degrees camber in the rear

I'll post the results from the hunter when I'm get them. I'm doing an Autocross class this weekend then another Autocross the following Sunday. I'll let you guys know what I think of the settings.

Anybody else F'd with their alignment yet? Anyone have a spec they like that they want to share?
Very interested in your second weekend results. I have m-perf suspension and going square 235/40/18x8.5 next week. Have a 2 day DE in 2 weeks, so this info is invaluable. Thx for your OP
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      08-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #14
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Updates?
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      08-15-2013, 07:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronin951
Updates?
It went well. Turn in is crisp, nice balance, you can really steer the car with the throttle.

This is my fastest, got a little ornery and overshot turn 2. Overall I thought the run was sloppy compared to my others-it was my last run so I was hanging it out. Even with all that crap, it was my fastest run. This car likes to be driven like a hoon apparently

Need to work on my driver mod, I know I left at least a second out there

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      08-19-2013, 11:37 PM   #16
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Daily use will kill the tires though with toe out.
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      08-20-2013, 12:26 PM   #17
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Not true, all things being equal any toe (in or out) causes tire wear. The 10 minutes of toe out I'm talking about are less than the 14 minutes of toe in the factory suggests.

And all things are rarely equal - when a wheel has negative camber as ours do, a little toe out actually reduces wear as the toe counter-acts camber thrust, reducing rolling resistance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_(automotive)
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