[dinonz]

Just wondering - if you're in manual mode and you've selected 6th at 30mph, and then you mash the throttle to the floor, will it pull away in 6th or kick-down to another gear?

Is it different for the standard AT8 v.s. the Sport AT8?

[300hp]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Just wondering - if you're in manual mode and you've selected 6th at 30mph, and then you mash the throttle to the floor, will it pull away in 6th or kick-down to another gear?

Is it different for the standard AT8 v.s. the Sport AT8?

I think for sport at if your gears show m6 it's going to stay there

[Teemo Panda]

I'm assuming you meant mashing is kickdown way past the resistant point, yes it will down shift it for you when you are is Sport mode, +, or in DS~

[dinonz]

Thanx guys - was just curious.

Was a pet hate of mine (pet peeve for you Americans I think) in my Lexus IS300 - I had all the torque of that 3.0 straight 6 available to me, and sometimes just wanted the car to pull away in the gear I had selected and leave it at that - but no, it would still kick down if it decided to. Even not mashing the throttle to the floor - just squeezing it - could result in a kick-down sometimes.

But I guess my reason for saying "mashing it to the floor" here was to find out if the BMW would kick down at all under any circumstance, or whether it would respect your choice even if it wasn't a great one.

[300hp]

I just ran this test. If the dash is showing m6 the car will not shift for you. I was just smoked by a Lincoln town car going from 30 to 60 while in m6. Of course it was not a race but I you can imagine the acceleration in 6th gear from 30 mph going uphill

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by 300hp

I just ran this test. If the dash is showing m6 the car will not shift for you. I was just smoked by a Lincoln town car going from 30 to 60 while in m6. Of course it was not a race but I you can imagine the acceleration in 6th gear from 30 mph going uphill

Cool - thanx for that!

[Elk]

Per the Manual, while in manual mode:

For vehicles with Sport automatic transmissions,
automatic shift operations are not performed
if one of the following conditions is met:

▷ DSC deactivated.
▷ TRACTION activated.
▷ SPORT+ activated.

In addition, the kickdown is deactivated.

[300hp]

I guess I forgot to mention I was in sports + mode which activates DTC, which makes sense considering Elks post above

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by Elk

Per the Manual, while in manual mode:

For vehicles with Sport automatic transmissions,
automatic shift operations are not performed
if one of the following conditions is met:

▷ DSC deactivated.
▷ TRACTION activated.
▷ SPORT+ activated.

In addition, the kickdown is deactivated.

What defines "traction activated"? I guess I should look at the manual eh?

I guess this means that for 99% of driving the AT8 would do exactly what I don't want in manual mode - same as the Lexus used to do. I rarely deactivate DSC, nor engage Sport+, so other than traction activated I'd be in the same boat.

[jddssc121]

In Sport, if you mash the throttle (even in manual mode), it will kickdown

In sport+, it will not

[pkimM3r]

Originally Posted by dinonz

What defines "traction activated"? I guess I should look at the manual eh?

I guess this means that for 99% of driving the AT8 would do exactly what I don't want in manual mode - same as the Lexus used to do. I rarely deactivate DSC, nor engage Sport+, so other than traction activated I'd be in the same boat.

DTC is dynamic traction control. You ACTIVATE it to get more dynamic handling which allows more wheel spin and slip angle before cutting in. DSC off means everything off.

Stock settings are dsc ON and dtc OFF.

Dsc is sort of like mdm in ///M cars.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by dinonz

I guess this means that for 99% of driving the AT8 would do exactly what I don't want in manual mode - same as the Lexus used to do. I rarely deactivate DSC, nor engage Sport+, so other than traction activated I'd be in the same boat.

Keep in mind however that the transmission will not downshift in manual mode unless you pass the resistance point. If you listen to your throttle foot, you can invoke full throttle without passing the resistance point without a downshift.

Thus, in manual mode you can add a bit of throttle to go up hill, to increase speed, etc. without an unintended downshift.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by Elk

Keep in mind however that the transmission will not downshift in manual mode unless you pass the resistance point. If you listen to your throttle foot, you can invoke full throttle without passing the resistance point without a downshift.

Thus, in manual mode you can add a bit of throttle to go up hill, to increase speed, etc. without an unintended downshift.

I guess so. Like today - stuck behind a VW driver doing 50 in a 60 zone in the left hand lane - I was in 6th, and didn't need to change down - just pulled right, stab of gas and I was past him in a flash.

I don't think my old Lexus behaved the way you describe and I used to hate that - I don't like to let an engine labor, but I also don't like down-shifting unnecessarily, as the Lexus used to.

[Elk]

I agree; over quick downshifting is incredibly annoying.

The F30 AT is way too quick to downshift with small added throttle. I avoid this by clicking the up paddle first. The car remains in top gear and does not downshift when passing, going up hill, etc.

I suspect this is an annoyance only for those of us who primarily drive MT.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by Elk

I agree; over quick downshifting is incredibly annoying.

The F30 AT is way too quick to downshift with small added throttle. I avoid this by clicking the up paddle first. The car remains in top gear and does not downshift when passing, going up hill, etc.

I suspect this is an annoyance only for those of us who primarily drive MT.

The Lexus (company car) was the first and only auto I have ever had in my life, and only one I have driven other than rentals which seem to be 100% autos. Was the only thing I didn't like about the car - if it had a 6MT, would have been an awesome vehicle. Strangely, they never brought the IS300 into NZ with an MT - but they did in the US.

[jdong]

Originally Posted by Elk

I agree; over quick downshifting is incredibly annoying.

The F30 AT is way too quick to downshift with small added throttle. I avoid this by clicking the up paddle first. The car remains in top gear and does not downshift when passing, going up hill, etc.

I suspect this is an annoyance only for those of us who primarily drive MT.

Hmm, maybe as a lifelong automatic driver who appreciates the ZF 8HP, I am not quite understanding, what's annoying about the quick downshifting behavior?

The car translates an accelerator position into the intended amount of acceleration the user demands. Indeed the car is very quick to pop out of the overdrive gears when requesting a bit of throttle, but IMO that's better than having a car that refuses to shift out of the 1200RPM gear when you want to make minor speed adjustments, forcing you to coax the car into a more aggressive downshift.

Are the downshifts not smooth for you? Unless I'm specifically trying to pick it out, the ZF 8HP shifts so smoothly in these moderate acceleration cases that I find myself caring less and less what gear my car is in.

[dinonz]

Originally Posted by jdong

Are the downshifts not smooth for you? Unless I'm specifically trying to pick it out, the ZF 8HP shifts so smoothly in these moderate acceleration cases that I find myself caring less and less what gear my car is in.

Regardless of how smooth a downshift is, there's a delay, downshift, then ramping up etc.

And regardless of how smooth a downshift in an auto is, it will never ever be as smooth as a no-shift at all in a MT6. Just a smooth (and instant, no delay not even a micro-milli-second) pull away...

[Elk]

Originally Posted by jdong

Hmm, maybe as a lifelong automatic driver who appreciates the ZF 8HP, I am not quite understanding, what's annoying about the quick downshifting behavior?

The car is too ready to "give up" and resort to unnecessary RPMs rather than simply producing a bit more power in the gear it is already in. It feels like the car is panicking because it has been asked to do just the tinniest bit of work.

The shift itself is very good however.

IMO that's better than having a car that refuses to shift out of the 1200RPM gear when you want to make minor speed adjustments, forcing you to coax the car into a more aggressive downshift.

I agree, although there is no need for a downshift with a minor speed adjustment. A downshift should be reserved for when one actually needs the torque a downshift provides.

[Bimmerfestool]

Originally Posted by Elk

Per the Manual, while in manual mode:

For vehicles with Sport automatic transmissions,
automatic shift operations are not performed
if one of the following conditions is met:

▷ DSC deactivated.
▷ TRACTION activated.
▷ SPORT+ activated.

In addition, the kickdown is deactivated.

Someone finally reads the manual!!!

[Yobyot]

Originally Posted by dinonz

Just wondering - if you're in manual mode and you've selected 6th at 30mph, and then you mash the throttle to the floor, will it pull away in 6th or kick-down to another gear?

Is it different for the standard AT8 v.s. the Sport AT8?

Depends. I don't know what the standard AT will do.

But if you are in Sport or Sport+ mode with 2TB and you have already used the paddle shifters, no, it will not downshift when you floor the pedal nor will it upshift at redline. You can hit the limiter in these two modes with the display showing "Mx" where "x" is the selected gear. You're in charge.

Oddly, IMO, however 2TB WILL downshift as you decelerate. IOW, if you coast down to reduce speed, 2TB will downshift when engine speed reaches about 1500 RPM. I suspect this is to protect the driveline.

[jdong]

Originally Posted by Yobyot

Oddly, IMO, however 2TB WILL downshift as you decelerate. IOW, if you coast down to reduce speed, 2TB will downshift when engine speed reaches about 1500 RPM. I suspect this is to protect the driveline

No, this is actually a fuel saving feature. Modern automatics allow the engine to shut off its injectors during coasting, so your engine uses no gas. However, the engine must be kept above a certain speed in order for the injectors to be able to kick in again when you accelerate (without involving the starter motor).

[jdong]

Originally Posted by Elk

The car is too ready to "give up" and resort to unnecessary RPMs rather than simply producing a bit more power in the gear it is already in. It feels like the car is panicking because it has been asked to do just the tinniest bit of work.

The shift itself is very good however.


I agree, although there is no need for a downshift with a minor speed adjustment. A downshift should be reserved for when one actually needs the torque a downshift provides.

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation. I guess it's bothered me less. I've lived through too many automatics where the car is so reluctant to downshift that by the time it's coaxed into doing it, it causes a huge torque ripple. The 8HP does the best that I've ever seen from an automatic for balancing fuel economy and generally guessing what gear I eventually need to be in. I'd personally rather have the transmission do an 8-6 or 8-7 downshift right as I hit the accelerator so that it can make a single imperceivable downshift before I start to accelerate.