[pnoob]

For a 335i, would the driving experience be different between the two options (Base + DHP and Sport + DHP) other than the sport steering? I couldn't find the former combination at the dealer to test it. Thanks.

[Pauleebe]

Sport steering? Not sure what that is...

Base includes base suspension.

Sport/M Package includes M suspension.

Getting DHP replaces the suspension in either case, and will give it adaptive suspension, with a sport option. It also provides variable steering.

[JamesMA]

To answer what I think the OP is asking, yes, of you have DHP and put it inn sport mode, the suspension will also tighten up compared to regular comfort mode driving.

[bavarianboar]

Any differences in wheel and tire config if u go base + dhp vs. sports/msport + dhp?

That should make some difference. Msport with dhp is a staggered wheel setup, not sure about sport.

I don't think I make your question simpler lol

[Weaselboy]

Originally Posted by bavarianboar

Any differences in wheel and tire config if u go base + dhp vs. sports/msport + dhp?

That should make some difference. Msport with dhp is a staggered wheel setup, not sure about sport.

I don't think I make your question simpler lol

The Luxury and Sport wheel are a different style, but the same 18" size. But with Luxury you can only get A/S tires. With Sports package you get your choice of A/S or summer performance tires.

Or, with either package you can option up to 19" wheels with summer performance tires.

[R12ax7]

to clarify dwalls post, getting DHP does not replace either base suspension or sport suspension, rather it adds dynamic dampers to each respective suspension. So I think the answer to your question is yes, they are quite different. With sport you will be lower (I think only 10mm) but also with stiffer springs from the M suspension. In either case you will have active dampers.

Its really the same question of an Msport Xdrive with DHP versus and Msport RWD with DHP. In both cases you get active dampers, but you only get the firmer and slightly lower springs on the RWD version.

Just saw bavarianbar's post, good point. The sportline does not get staggered set-up, only Msport gets staggered wheels.

[kubera]

Originally Posted by R12ax7

to clarify dwalls post, getting DHP does not replace either base suspension or sport suspension, rather it adds dynamic dampers to each respective suspension. So I think the answer to your question is yes, they are quite different. With sport you will be lower (I think only 10mm) but also with stiffer springs from the M suspension. In either case you will have active dampers

When I attempt to build the car in bmwusa.com, adding DHP will replace the M suspension with adaptive M suspension in sports line, and in case of the base line, it replaces the base suspension with adaptive M suspension. The end result is the same in these two case (i.e., DHP adds adaptive M suspension). Are you sure they are quite different?

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by R12ax7

to clarify dwalls post, getting DHP does not replace either base suspension or sport suspension, rather it adds dynamic dampers to each respective suspension. So I think the answer to your question is yes, they are quite different. With sport you will be lower (I think only 10mm) but also with stiffer springs from the M suspension. In either case you will have active dampers.

Its really the same question of an Msport Xdrive with DHP versus and Msport RWD with DHP. In both cases you get active dampers, but you only get the firmer and slightly lower springs on the RWD version.

Just saw bavarianbar's post, good point. The sportline does not get staggered set-up, only Msport gets staggered wheels.

Wrong, DHP deletes the suspension, regardless of stock or M suspension, and installs "dynamic suspension", a complete rebuild of the suspension.

DHP has sport mode, which is as tight (some have claimed even tighter due to improved/dynamic dampers) as sport suspension.

You do get stiffer suspension with RWD.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by kubera

When I attempt to build the car in bmwusa.com, adding DHP will replace the M suspension with adaptive M suspension in sports line, and in case of the base line, it replaces the base suspension with adaptive M suspension. The end result is the same in these two case (i.e., DHP adds adaptive M suspension). Are you sure they are quite different?

Correct.

[gweeta]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

You do get stiffer suspension with RWD.

So, if you add DHP to a non-X drive car, you have a different suspension than if you add DHP to an X drive car?

I thought that once you added DHP to any car, whether or not X drive, you deleted the stock suspension (on non-sport models) or the sport suspension (on sport models) and got the same adaptive M suspension.

I did realize that ride height would be different between a DHP X drive car and a DHP non-X drive car, but other than that, I thought the suspension would be the same. Wrong?

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by gweeta

So, if you add DHP to a non-X drive car, you have a different suspension than if you add DHP to an X drive car?

I thought that once you added DHP to any car, whether or not X drive, you deleted the stock suspension (on non-sport models) or the sport suspension (on sport models) and got the same adaptive M suspension.

I did realize that ride height would be different between a DHP X drive car and a DHP non-X drive car, but other than that, I thought the suspension would be the same. Wrong?

You can't honestly think that a vehicle with the mechanics of xDrive will be as tight at cornering compared to RWD. For one, xDrive isn't as low, so that hurts it's handling there alone. The suspension core is probably close to identical between the xDrive and RWD, but the xDrive mechanics take up "space".

DHP on xDrive is the BEST way to get the sporty feeling of handling in an AWD BMW, but by no means is it as perfect or better than RWD.

[300hp]

I find that the advantages of AWD are little known and most theories that are postulated here are based on outdated information. AWD systems these days are very well developed.

Here are some examples

IS350 AWD
Quote
"The IS 350's best stop from 60 mph took 114 ft, and its 26.0-second figure-eight lap bests previous IS 350s by nearly a second, and nips at even the BMW 335i."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2XGTZlfsN

ATS 3.6
"Not only does the ATS4 nearly match the rear-drive ATS in straight-line performance (5.6-second 0-60 versus 5.5 seconds; 14.1-second quarter-mile versus 14.0 second) despite being about 150 pounds heavier (3682 pounds versus 3535 pounds), it does so on all-season tires sized 225/45R18 at all four corners and without the rear-drive ATS' optional magnetic-ride suspension and limited-slip differential. These differences help explain why the ATS4 needs 124 feet to stop from 60 instead of a mere 110 feet. Despite giving up some ground on the skidpad (0.88 g versus 0.91 g), the ATS4 claws harder out of the turns, so it completes the figure-eight course in 25.8 seconds at 0.72 average g while the ATS did so in 26.0 seconds at 0.71 average g."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2XGV5NU7O

Note that the IS350 AWD stops only 4 feet longer than the ATS 3.6 RWD with the superior suspension setup, magnetic-ride suspension and limited-slip differential. The ATS4 actually beat the RWD with the magnetic-ride suspension and limited-slip differential in their handling test, see bold highlights above. Funny enough it also beat the 328i RWD in the same test, 25.9 sec @ 0.69 g (avg)

Unlike the ATS 3.6 and Lexus IS350, the 335i AWD is faster in a straight line that its RWD sibling and it also comes with staggered summer performance tires and adaptive suspention. I am glad that MT is starting to realize that AWD and RWD will appeal to different groups and has decided to test these separately.

[gweeta]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

You can't honestly think that a vehicle with the mechanics of xDrive will be as tight at cornering compared to RWD. For one, xDrive isn't as low, so that hurts it's handling there alone. The suspension core is probably close to identical between the xDrive and RWD, but the xDrive mechanics take up "space".

DHP on xDrive is the BEST way to get the sporty feeling of handling in an AWD BMW, but by no means is it as perfect or better than RWD.

I think you are missing my point. All I am asking is whether the suspensions are mechanically identical and I think you are saying yes, except for ride height. I wasn't suggesting the cars would handle the same way.

[Pauleebe]

Originally Posted by 300hp

I find that the advantages of AWD are little known and most theories that are postulated here are based on outdated information. AWD systems these days are very well developed.

Here are some examples

IS350 AWD
Quote
"The IS 350's best stop from 60 mph took 114 ft, and its 26.0-second figure-eight lap bests previous IS 350s by nearly a second, and nips at even the BMW 335i."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2XGTZlfsN

ATS 3.6
"Not only does the ATS4 nearly match the rear-drive ATS in straight-line performance (5.6-second 0-60 versus 5.5 seconds; 14.1-second quarter-mile versus 14.0 second) despite being about 150 pounds heavier (3682 pounds versus 3535 pounds), it does so on all-season tires sized 225/45R18 at all four corners and without the rear-drive ATS' optional magnetic-ride suspension and limited-slip differential. These differences help explain why the ATS4 needs 124 feet to stop from 60 instead of a mere 110 feet. Despite giving up some ground on the skidpad (0.88 g versus 0.91 g), the ATS4 claws harder out of the turns, so it completes the figure-eight course in 25.8 seconds at 0.72 average g while the ATS did so in 26.0 seconds at 0.71 average g."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2XGV5NU7O

Note that the IS350 AWD stops only 4 feet longer than the ATS 3.6 RWD with the superior suspension setup, magnetic-ride suspension and limited-slip differential. The ATS4 actually beat the RWD with the magnetic-ride suspension and limited-slip differential in their handling test, see bold highlights above. Funny enough it also beat the 328i RWD in the same test, 25.9 sec @ 0.69 g (avg)

Unlike the ATS 3.6 and Lexus IS350, the 335i AWD is faster in a straight line that its RWD sibling and it also comes with staggered summer performance tires and adaptive suspention. I am glad that MT is starting to realize that AWD and RWD will appeal to different groups and has decided to test these separately.

The 335 does start getting into the territory where it has enough power to take advantage of xDrive. Plus, as you noted, xDrive also is reaching the point where it's not wasting all that power through the transmission and is light enough to be viable.

The RWD variant of the 328 beats the xDrive by a margin, that and you can't get an xDrive Manual with the 328, so that's why I opted against xDrive. But if I had the cash I would consider xDrive for my next 3 series.

Nevertheless, in terms of handling alone, and not power displacement, the RWD variant is still more effective at cornering because it's lower and still more nimble.

[300hp]

What do you say about the ATS 3.6 awd with poor tires outperforming the rwd ATS with the slip diff and better tires in the figure 8. The same heavy ATS 3.6 beats the 328i in the same test.

I agree one can argue the merits of letting the tail hang out in the corners and having more fun but clawing out, as MT put it, is where the awd with its superior traction may have an advantage.

[R12ax7]

Originally Posted by dwalls90

Wrong, DHP deletes the suspension, regardless of stock or M suspension, and installs "dynamic suspension", a complete rebuild of the suspension.

DHP has sport mode, which is as tight (some have claimed even tighter due to improved/dynamic dampers) as sport suspension.

You do get stiffer suspension with RWD.

I'm not so sure this is right.

First, I know the online configurator says it "deletes" the Msport suspension or whatever, but it has been documented that the part numbers of the springs on the Msport suspension are the same as on an Msport w/ DHP (despite the online configurator saying the Msport is "deleted"). My point is just that some components of whatever suspension your car comes with (base/xdrive/sport) carry over to that particular car's "dynamic suspension".

Second (and i think this is the real question to which I am not 100% sure of the answer), I believe the xdrive suspension and the "base" no-line suspension (RWD) are essentially the same with only slight tuning differences for the xdrive. This is how it was for the e90 and to the Xdrive crowd's disappointment, its the same on the F30 with the exception of adding DHP. Obviously we know that all xdrive suspensions are the same across the board regardless of line, also as it was on the e90. We know that the ride height for Xdrive (any line or no-line) with DHP is higher than a sport/Msport (RWD) with DHP. The question is whether the xdrive suspension is raised to be higher than the base suspension; I dont know the answer to that.

It stands to reason a no-line with DHP is going to have roughly the same ride height as an Xdrive (any line) with DHP, similar or the same springs (i.e. not firmer as they are on sport/msport RWD w/ or w/out DHP) but, again, back to the OP's question, each will be a totally different driving experience.

to put it another way, in terms of "sportiness/stiffness" it would be something like this:

RWD sport/Msport with DHP > non-sport with DHP >/ (thats supposed to be the greater than or equal to symbol) xdrive with DHP.

The only difference in the last two being the different dynamics of xdrive, weight/weight distribution and not ride height.

The bottom line, to address the OP's original question, is that if you are comparing any xdrive w/ DHP to any RWD w/ DHP, certainly they will be totally different "driving experiences" but this will be more due to the added weight of xdrive, the weight distribution and the RWD vs AWD debate, and less to do with the suspension itself. What DWalls seems to be saying is that the base suspension w/ DHP (RWD) and the sport/msport suspension w/ DHP (RWD) are identical and I am fairly confident this is not the case.

[PK2348]

sport might have thicker sway bars then base, so that could effect how it drives as well