[valdeztke]

[phantom330]

you are right, something is fishy. Dealers can only bump subvented money factors .00040, so something is going on funny. Even if they waived your SD and got the maximum markup they can on the rate, that only leaves you at .00205, so not sure what they are trying to pull. Basically they are quoting you a rate that they can't even charge, FS won't even pay them more than 40 pts reserve on those deals, so either he's an idiot or trying to use non subvented rates in hopes they will make back in reserve what they are losing on the cost of the car.

[vbb]

This may sound like an overly simple solution, but don't sign any paperwork for a deal you are uncomfortable with. You went in looking for a 24 month lease with 15K per year, a $5000 rebate, and a .0015 MF. He's quoting you a 36 month lease with 10K per year, and a .0033 MF. That's nothing like what you went there to get, so why agree to that?

[valdeztke]

No thats not how it happened. I started talking to him about the price (which I thought is the first thing you do - work the car price) then I asked about a possible lease and those are the rates he sent me.

After I said I was looking for a 24 month 10k mile he said the total monthly amount went UP $68.00 and the residual went to 68% from 64%.


Where is the $5,000 rebate figured into this deal and why is the residual not 73% like the capitive rates from bimmerfest?

[valdeztke]

Originally Posted by phantom330

you are right, something is fishy. Dealers can only bump subvented money factors .00040, so something is going on funny. Even if they waived your SD and got the maximum markup they can on the rate, that only leaves you at .00205, so not sure what they are trying to pull. Basically they are quoting you a rate that they can't even charge, FS won't even pay them more than 40 pts reserve on those deals, so either he's an idiot or trying to use non subvented rates in hopes they will make back in reserve what they are losing on the cost of the car.

Why would they even increase the MF when they are being encouraged to move these cars?

How should I respond to his last email? Should I just go directly to the new car manager and say what I'm looking for and I'm ready to sign given the correct numbers?

[valdeztke]

CA RESPONSE

You are obviously a very informed consumer. But, you have outdated information. The numbers you are looking at are from July. That was before the trunk money. I will be happy to show you the September bulletins from BMW FS.

The posted residual for 24 months is 65% and the bump for 10K takes it to 68%.

The posted subvened rate for September is .00275. Taking the 40 point bump, it makes it .00315. The bump for waiving the security deposit is .00015. That is where I got the .00330 number. The programs are national programs.

[BMWE90]

Your CA is correct though. Here are the rates for September (courtesy of Bimmerfest):
2007 BMW Z4 3.0i Convertible
24 Month – Residual 65% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 55% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 37% of MSRP – .00310 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 30% of MSRP – .00310 Base Rate

That's based on 15,000 miles a year.

[valdeztke]

where are the 10k a year rates? What about the "trunk money"? Is that reflected in the overall reduction of the MSRP? These cars without the rebates were selling just over invoice... so where is the real "deal" at?

[BMWE90]

+ 2% for 12k and +3% for 10k

[valdeztke]

Originally Posted by valdeztke

where are the 10k a year rates? What about the "trunk money"? Is that reflected in the overall reduction of the MSRP? These cars without the rebates were selling just over invoice... so where is the real "deal" at?

?

[phantom330]

Originally Posted by valdeztke

Why would they even increase the MF when they are being encouraged to move these cars?

How should I respond to his last email? Should I just go directly to the new car manager and say what I'm looking for and I'm ready to sign given the correct numbers?

Because they want to try and make as much money off you as possible, they aren't making squat on the car itself, so they need the financing to get some commission. Simple as that. I'd also ask him why he's taking you for the full 40 pt bump. There is where your negotiation skills need to come into play!

[jngjng72]

okay, so I plugged in your numbers into www.leaseguide.com's calculator and here's what I found:

It looks like the dealer applied the $5000 rebate to the downpayment, so your downpayment is actually $7000.
When I plug in the other numbers, it comes to around $482.93 per month, given the .0033 MF and assuming that you are paying MSRP and that you didn't negotiate anything beyond the $7000 downpayment.

If the dealer didn't apply the $5000 rebate, the calculator would give you a 600+ monthly payment

[valdeztke]

This is what I told him

What about this - I don't waive the SD and reduce the bump of .00015 and then I'll offer to pay the 825 acquistion fee for the buy rate MF.

[phantom330]

that really doesn't make sense. He's making money off the acq fee as well. You're taking eggs out of one basket and putting them in the other. Ask him why he is marking up the rate the maximum allowed?

[will@longbeachbmw]

The CA is being relatively straight forward with you. There is trunk money which comes off the selling price off the Z4. Then there is a buy rate MF of .00275. If you waived the SD, your MF buy rate would be .00290. Anything over that is just profit. Keep in mind, it isn't a crime for the salesperson to make a little bit of dough on a sale, as they still are providing a service, and this guy seems pretty legit. Figure with the 5,000 trunk money, there is about 7,200 total profit from real invoice to MSRP, $500-1,000 over true invoice, with maybe a tenth in rate, seems like a fair deal to both parties (moreso for the buyer). I think you should offer him $6,600 off of sticker, and a MF sell rate of .00300 and call it day. That will be a pretty good deal for you

[e90pdto]

Originally Posted by valdeztke

Why would they even increase the MF when they are being encouraged to move these cars?

How should I respond to his last email? Should I just go directly to the new car manager and say what I'm looking for and I'm ready to sign given the correct numbers?

BMW intentionally raised the lease rates (after they started offer $5000 rebates in August) on Z4s to discourage leases on these cars and encourge more buying.
The lease rates in July were way better, and the residual values were also very very high @ 73% (3.0si @ 10k @ 24mos)
For now, I think it's reasonable to negotiate with your CA to get your car $5000 under invoice since people really were getting invoice prices before this trunk money, and just settle with the high rate that is currenly posted by BMWUSA.

[valdeztke]

Originally Posted by toattett

BMW intentionally raised the lease rates (after they started offer $5000 rebates in August) on Z4s to discourage leases on these cars and encourge more buying.
The lease rates in July were way better, and the residual values were also very very high @ 73% (3.0si @ 10k @ 24mos)
For now, I think it's reasonable to negotiate with your CA to get your car $5000 under invoice since people really were getting invoice prices before this trunk money, and just settle with the high rate that is currenly posted by BMWUSA.

You mean under MRSP?

Will - thanks for your info. I'll shoot the offer to the CA. Its from a dealer in my area that isn't very well known for "taking care" of customers in their service department either.

If this doesnt go through I'll work an ED deal on a 328 Cpe w/ a forum sponsor and call it a day

[will@longbeachbmw]

Originally Posted by valdeztke

You mean under MRSP?

Will - thanks for your info. I'll shoot the offer to the CA. Its from a dealer in my area that isn't very well known for "taking care" of customers in their service department either.

If this doesnt go through I'll work an ED deal on a 328 Cpe w/ a forum sponsor and call it a day

You got it my friend - you know I'll help you out

[valdeztke]

I just spoke to an old friend of mine that is now a CA. He says the trunk money in my case is being applied incorrectly.

This is how he explained.

The dealership is being given (hypothetically because I don't know the actual amount) $5,500 for the Z4. So if you deduct this "trunk money" from their wholesale cost of the car you get a "new invoice". So a buyer, like me, should be negotiating from the "new invoice" price and not the original MSRP. The lease will be based on the ORG MSRP which should give me a pretty good deal even with the 68% residual and .00275 MF.

I am planning to offer 1,000 over the "new invoice" and paying the aquisition fee. This should net the dealer a profit, not very high, but a profit nonetheless. Keep in mind this dealer has almost 25 2007 Z4's and a few 06's I believe.

[Aija]

Originally Posted by valdeztke

I just spoke to an old friend of mine that is now a CA. He says the trunk money in my case is being applied incorrectly.

This is how he explained.

The dealership is being given (hypothetically because I don't know the actual amount) $5,500 for the Z4. So if you deduct this "trunk money" from their wholesale cost of the car you get a "new invoice". So a buyer, like me, should be negotiating from the "new invoice" price and not the original MSRP. The lease will be based on the ORG MSRP which should give me a pretty good deal even with the 68% residual and .00275 MF.

I am planning to offer 1,000 over the "new invoice" and paying the aquisition fee. This should net the dealer a profit, not very high, but a profit nonetheless. Keep in mind this dealer has almost 25 2007 Z4's and a few 06's I believe.

before i ordered my E92 335i, i saw a nice deal on a 07 BMW Z4 ///M for 599 monthly with 3k down (36months)... It was way below invoice. I considered it for a day.

[valdeztke]

Originally Posted by Aija

before i ordered my E92 335i, i saw a nice deal on a 07 BMW Z4 ///M for 599 monthly with 3k down (36months)... It was way below invoice. I considered it for a day.

I also considered an M - until I drove one and I was like ... where is the power?

[will@longbeachbmw]

Originally Posted by valdeztke

I just spoke to an old friend of mine that is now a CA. He says the trunk money in my case is being applied incorrectly.

This is how he explained.

The dealership is being given (hypothetically because I don't know the actual amount) $5,500 for the Z4. So if you deduct this "trunk money" from their wholesale cost of the car you get a "new invoice". So a buyer, like me, should be negotiating from the "new invoice" price and not the original MSRP. The lease will be based on the ORG MSRP which should give me a pretty good deal even with the 68% residual and .00275 MF.

I am planning to offer 1,000 over the "new invoice" and paying the aquisition fee. This should net the dealer a profit, not very high, but a profit nonetheless. Keep in mind this dealer has almost 25 2007 Z4's and a few 06's I believe.

Yeah - that sounds like a good plan. That is what I was trying to say.

BTW - you must have drove a broken M - because that car is a beast