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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > K&N air filter already on stock



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      11-22-2005, 11:28 AM   #1
mros47
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K&N air filter already on stock

hello everybody!!!!! let me tell you..... there is already on stock the k&N filter for the E90 (325-330) the part numeber is 33-2332
I already buy one for my 325I, bye.. :rocks:
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      11-22-2005, 11:30 AM   #2
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      11-22-2005, 12:12 PM   #3
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Now why would I replace the OEM filter with anything other than an OEM filter?
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      11-22-2005, 07:13 PM   #4
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well... k&n has been having people all over the world do so for many, many years.
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      11-22-2005, 08:20 PM   #5
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Better air flow........I guess......and makes the engine go GRRRRRR!
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      11-22-2005, 08:22 PM   #6
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I heard on a previous thread that it works well for a few months and then it actually bad for you car Any reason to this?
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      11-23-2005, 12:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abc
well... k&n has been having people all over the world do so for many, many years.
Milions of flies feed on sh.....

So why?
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      11-23-2005, 12:53 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y
Better air flow........I guess......and makes the engine go GRRRRRR!

Better airflow as in more dirt?

Do I want my car to go GRRRRRR! ?
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      11-23-2005, 01:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tierfreund
Better airflow as in more dirt?

Do I want my car to go GRRRRRR! ?
How about VRRRRR.....VRRRRRRR!

When it gets dirty....clean it....lifetime of the car or 1,000,000 miles warranty!
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      11-23-2005, 01:25 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y
How about VRRRRR.....VRRRRRRR!



Mine does Brumm Brumm anyway. I like it that way.
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      11-23-2005, 06:06 AM   #11
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Got mine a week ago, I looking for the special star allen wrench so I could remove the OEM air filter, the air housing seems very tight to get my fat fingers around it, to loosen the allen screw.

Anyone know what size star allen wrench is needed?

PN 33-2332
cost $43 w/ shipping cost
Fox Performance
909-824-8008 108

take a look and you be the judge
http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/sho...y.php?cat=3133
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      11-23-2005, 08:58 AM   #12
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It's funny how people that have no idea what they are talking about say the K&N Air Filter is bad, or doesn't make power, or blah blah blah. Most of the time it is, "I heard from a friend, that has a friend, that has a sister that has a friend that said it allowed more dirt to go through it". Some people even say, "I saw an article that said these are bad for our car"...yet no one produces the article or will tell you where they saw it. Which equals -> bull crap.

The facts I witness first hand...yes, my experience. (A) they do produce more horsepower...while it may only be 1HP and a couple FT LBS to the wheels it DOES - this was on a stock car on a DYNO. (B) I have an oil analysis performed on both my tow vehicle and racecar a few times a year...guess what...yep, no increase in what would be called dirt or other items than what can be seen when using an OEM filter. Now let's take it a step further. Tow vehicle is a Cummins Turbo Diesel that has add-ons...one would think because the engine pulls MUCH MORE outside air then you could see on the oil analysis an increase in abnormal readings...but no. OK, let's look at a race motor (yes I have a race car that actually races on a race track)that has been modifed to a point where the tolerences are so minimal that if ANY dirt were to go into the intake the motor would blow. GUESS WHAT...yes, still no problems.

How about this...go do some research on your own and see what you find...but be sure to use a third party type of research company. Naturally a company that makes OEM replacement filters is going to be bias...as well as K&N. Otherewise, blow it out your arse and have a good day.
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      11-23-2005, 09:34 AM   #13
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j28s-

First off, don't come on here with two posts and start telling known and respected members of this community to "blow it out their arse." That is not to say every post to this forum needs to be Sachrin sweet, the debates can get heated- but you do not come into someone's house and start hurling insults. You've made no effort to be known to the community other then to ask them a question and then insult them.

Second, do not come onto this forum and lie. You do NOT own a race car who's motor will blow up if ANY dirt got into it. I do own a race car and I've crewed on a number of racing teams. Aside from some extremely exotic motorsports (F1, top fuel), no engines are built to that level of delicacy. If they are, filters really don't matter since they get rebuilt every 4-5 hours of runtime. Motor sanitation is extremely important to longevity, I will agree with that statement, but don't come on here and try to puff up your blather with bullshit. You might impress the wannabes, but lots of us can see through your crap.

Third, I have, with my very own eyes, seen a scientifically valid set of tests which conclusively proove that K&N filters DO NOT filter as well as stock BMW filters. The tests were conducted by an independent lab in behalf of Jim Conforti during the development of his E36 M3 cold air intake kit. The conclusion of the analysis was that K&N had a noticable increase in airflow compared to the stock filter but that the K&N material did not contain a significant amount of particulate matter. As the K&N filter loaded with contamination, filter efficiency dropped exponentially. The conclusion was that the filter gauze would loose tackyness as the oiled surface area was covered with contamination.

Finally, and you should know this because you are God's own expert, comparisons between street cars and track vehicles are simply invalid. Race cars see minimal use (15-20 weekends a year perhaps?) in a relatively clean environment (in regards to airborne particulate matter) and receive a level of maintainance/care far above a street vehicle. All of these factors make cross comparisons null and void, even on identical vehicles with identical engines.

... and the horse you rode in on.

Last edited by ZenDriver; 11-23-2005 at 10:04 AM..
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      11-23-2005, 10:07 AM   #14
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      11-23-2005, 11:19 AM   #15
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@Zendriver:

Well done Not over the top, just right.
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      11-23-2005, 12:10 PM   #16
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ZenDriver:
(1) Funny, I see know need to prove myself to anyone. If I see a few people say something is crap and they don't back it up...I say that is crap. There is a difference between a forum on the internet and going to someone's house.
(2) I would disagree again unless your are a mechanical engineer that builds motors in the high performance industry. Let's take it a step further...I have an Acura Integra Type R that I have been racing since 1998. The motor has been built specifically to get every potential power gain achievable per the rules. So, if you deck the head enough, have a set of cams made to meet the duration/lift desired, pistons made to get as much compression as possible, blah blah blah (for example your valve lash adjustment is 0.1 mm intake/exhaust). Then you race somewhere like VIR, CMP, Roebling Road (and all it's sand), Road Atlanta, Sebring, etc and on a high speed straight (note: you have your custom made air intake just behind the opening of the headlight) and you have a car go off in front of you that sprays dirt/sand/debris all over the front of your car at say 140mph...one would think if the K&N filter was SOOO bad that some of this would get past the filter, travel down the intake into the chamber...then as the air/fuel ignites and the piston travels up to push the exhaust out...there is NO ROOM for debris between the piston and head/valves especially when the motor is turning between 9,000 and 9,700 RPMS. This isn't bullshit...this is FACT and it's happened quite a few times.
(3) Where is this independent test? Is it online so I can see the results? I would like to see the oil analysis which you could see the results in a second. Funny that I have never heard anyone talk about it especially since I have several friends that use the K&N Filter on GT1 and GT2 racecars, Production racecars, other world challenge vettes, porsches, BMWs, Acruas, etc. I know a lot of people that have K&N filters on their personal cars...yet I have never heard of a problem. And as a note, I have raced GT1 Vipers, Production racecars, Porsches, and BMWs. I'm also an instructor for the BMW club, Porsche club, SCCA, NASA, Acura club, Mazda club, ViperDays, blah blah blah. Don't believe it, let me know and I'll meet you at any clubs next event at VIR/CMP/Roebling/RoadAtlanta/etc.
(4) Nope, I'm not God. You say comparing street cars to track/race cars are invalid and that race cars typically only see 19/20 weekends a year. Yes, most race cars only see the track 60 days a year, but those cars are raced harder than any street car over a full year. Most street cars only see low speeds/low RPMs/and hard surface roads whereas race cars see constant high speeds/high RPMs/ and hard surface roads but with a lot of dirt flying through the air while you are chasing the car 10 feet in front of you that is cutting turns at 100+mph.

...and the donkey you rode in on... and have a nice day...

P.S. ZenDriver:
Also, under your name I see "E36 325 ITC Racer". When you say ITC racer, I hope you are not saying you race it in SCCA ITC class because it isn't in ITC...it is in ITS. If it is BMW CCA...never heard of ITC...just to letters (letter+S or +M or +P).

Last edited by j28s; 11-23-2005 at 12:37 PM..
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      11-23-2005, 12:23 PM   #17
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Someone asked for me about my tow vehicle:
It's a 2002 Dodge Ram 3500 5 Spd 4x4 with the Cummins Turbo Diesel that I use to pull my 48' gooseneck Hallmark Elite racecar trailer. Truck - 6" exhaust-turbo back, Scotty2 intake, TNT Powerbox, PDR40 turbo. All makes pulling 23,000 lbs GCW through the mountains on the way from/to a race much easier. Yes, the airfilter is one of those bad oiled filters.
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      11-23-2005, 01:13 PM   #18
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(1) I have no problem with people telling other people that what they are saying is crap. I am about to tell you how what you are saying is crap as a matter of fact. The problem I have is with your attitude. I have an attitude as well, but I also try to provide information and help people. You show up here from out of the blue telling people to STFU. That isn't cool.

(2) Selecting an air filter is all about balancing air flow with filter effectiveness. People who have drunk the K&N Kool Aid seem to like to believe that a piece of oiled gauze between some chicken wire magically gets around this basic tradeoff and they are generally correct- when a K&N filter is clean and freshly oiled, they are extremely effective at filtering AND flowing lots of air. As the filter loads up with contamination, the magic efficiency of the K&N deteriorates exponentially to a point where it eventually both flows worse then paper AND allows more contaminants to pass through.

K&N filters are an excellent filter for race cars- when they are clean and newly oiled, they are the cat's ass of filters and race cars get their filters cleaned very often. For road cars which go 20-30K miles between air filter changes these days however, it is prudent to trade air flow for long lasting filter efficiency. Will running an K&N on a street car blow up the engine? Probably not, but I can almost guarantee that if you strip down a motor with 50K miles sucking a K&N, your going to see increased wear when compared to the paper.

(3) I cited the owner of the test, Jim Conforti, who is one of the more respected BMW engine software gurus out there (though he has become a bit reclusive). At the time, he was developing the Conforti air intake for the E36 M3 and his goal was to equip the kit with the finest filter money could buy (because that's just the sort of guy Conforti is).

He had a lab conduct a series of tests using standardized test media of various sizes on a lab bench. The filters tested were a stock BMW paper filter, a K&N cone and an ITG foam filter. The test conclusively proved that the K&N, when clean, was the most efficient but that efficiency dropped off almost instantly and the K&N was nearly useless. Perfect for a race car that gets a filter cleaning every 500 miles, bad for a road car. Conforti eventually selected ITG foam- while it did not flow as much air as the K&N, it flowed more air then the paper and was able to hold that level of filter efficacy far longer (foam filters have a much larger surface area then paper or gauze).

I know Jim personally and was there when he tested numerous cars with the filter. I was also a beta tester for the kit and got almost daily updates on it's development. We all clearly realized that the K&N was the better setup if you were going to clean the filter every weekend, but the purpose of this kit was to provide a product for the huge number of "Track on Sunday - To Work on Monday" M3s that were very popular at the time. Between all 3 filters, the K&N was the WORST filter for drivers of this type.

If you want to see the test, call up Turner Motorsport and talk to Will (you know who he is). He will either back up what I've just said or he'll get Jim to come out of the woodwork so you can hear it from the horses mouth.

(4) Yes. Race cars do lead extraordinarily hard lives. When they are run, they get ran very very hard. They also get maintained impeccably well. The air filter gets looked at (if your team is competent) as part of the pre-weekend workup. The oil gets changed every 200 miles. The coolant gets flushed a couple of times a season. The engine gets rebuilt every 2 years or so. Honestly, air filters don't matter much on race cars- the filters F1 teams run are usually single layer large cell foam designed only to catch large debris, they don't worry about dust because the motor is getting rebuilt.

Street cars often go 20 or 30k miles before anyone worries about the filter. They don't suck as much air as a race car per hour driven, but they rack up those hours. Race cars and road cars are very very different beasts and some products that work for one will not work well for the other.

K&N filters have proven to be one of those products.
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      11-23-2005, 02:29 PM   #19
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(1) I never told anyone to STFU...I said I thought it was funny when people say/write stuff that they know nothing about and I said THAT was bull crap. Maybe I got off on the wrong foot, but I'm not going to apologize. If I see someone else make a comment about anyother product I know about personally, I'll say the same thing again.

(2) Yes, people should look at the maintenance of performance parts when they are looking to perform a modification. BUT I would not say that foam filters are better nor would I say paper filters are better. Yes, foam will catch particles just like oil will catch particles. But the when the foam cell starts catching more and more dirt, the air is then restricted. As a result, the velocity increases whereas eventually the dirt that was caught in the foam will eventually get pulled through the foam any into the motor. The dynamics of "oil, gauze,and chickenwire" is a little different...has to do with the oil catching the debris and pulling it away so the air can go through the gauze and "chickenwire". Whoops...hold on a second, I need to take another shot of my K&N Kool Aid...better. And yes, K&N also catches the 10 to 20 micron particles that cause engine problems just like IMG claims.

(3) I'll look for this test that the "Land Shark" (aka Jim) did and I'll ask Will about this. It would be funny if Jim didn't use oil on the filter (i'm not saying he didn't use oil on the filter, just that it would be funny if he didn't.) And yes, I'm familiar with Jim since he does most of the programming of after market chips for BMWs...then again programming a chip and making the motor too lean to get more problem would blow up a motor in a heartbeat). I'll also ask Will why he uses a K&N filter for his TMS M3 Carbon Fiber cold air intake kit and his other TMS CAI kits. If you don't believe me, call TMS up and ask them which filter they use. I would think that if he saw this for himself, he would use the IMG foam for all of his CAI kits he makes/sells with his name on it and not the K&N Air Filters. Not saying anything, but I find it hard to believe the K&N Air Filter was the "worst". The only thing I would be interested in is the Oil Analysis of each filter...primarily the "silica". Personal fact: in my diesel truck I have not seen any higher levels of slicia as I saw with the OEM paper air filter, actually I see less. And this truck runs as high as 40 lbs of boost...yes, 40 lbs of boost...that's sucking A LOT of air. And yes, I clean the filter two times per year...oh...and compared to the OEM paper filter...I am getting 1.2 MPG BETTER with the oiled, gauze, "chickenwire" filter.

(4) I also know of a few "showroom stock" drivers that race their car on the weekend (or take their street cars to a trackday/weekend) that have a K&N Air filter, but again no problems. Then again, those type of people take VERY good care of their car. I would think any car enthusiast would also take the time to take very good care of their own car...people on this forum included. So with that said, I feel air filters do matter. Take another shot of your IMG Kool Aid. You know that when hot tire buggers come off of the car in front of you and onto your air filter...you'll be glad that "chickenwire" was there.
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      11-23-2005, 03:44 PM   #20
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So would it be ignorant of me asking how often would I have to clean the K&N filter if I get one.....I love my car but would find it bothersome to clean it once a week....how often do you "non racers" clean it?
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      11-23-2005, 09:03 PM   #21
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I cleaned mine about every 6 months on my old car.....the cleaning kit is like $9.99 at any auto store. Spray cleaner.....let it soak....rinse it down with water.....then oil it. Good as new!

You'll know/feel the difference with K&N! It's all about the airflow....
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