E90Post
 


The Tire Rack
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > 335d vs 335i



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-18-2007, 05:22 PM   #1
Craigito
Captain
Craigito's Avatar
126
Rep
832
Posts

Drives: 16' F82 M4
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M4   [10.00]
335d vs 335i

I read that the turbos on the diesel not only are not twin sized but are in series with one another. In fact, it said that after 2500 rpm, the initial smaller turbo does nothing at all.

So why is this a more effective setup on a turbo diesel vs the turbo gas which has independent twin turbos?

Sorry if this has been discussed before.
__________________
Previous Ride 2007 335I Coupe / Space / Black Dakota / Gray Poplar / ZSP / ZPP / Step / Paddles / Nav / Hot Seats / IPOD/ Xpel HL

Current Ride 2016 M4 / Mineral Gray / DCT/ Full Black Leather / 19in Gunmetal / Executive /LED/Ohlinds RT/SSR DP-CP-Intake/AP Essex 9668/Bootmod STG 2/DINAN HE
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2007, 05:43 PM   #2
judec
born to be turbocharged
judec's Avatar
Slovakia
24
Rep
1,347
Posts

Drives: Not a bimmer yet
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Slovakia

iTrader: (0)

For the 335d:
it is an effective trade-off of quicker spool-up and low and torque vs. high end performance. In single turbo setup the turbo sizing is very sensitive topic. Put a small turbo in it and U'll spo9ol up quicker and pull from lower rpm, but U'll loose your breath at higher rpm's. Vice versa with turbos too big - U'll be able to compete gasoline engines, but until U get there... ouch. So the BMW sd setup should cure both of those handicaps - 286 HP and absolutely insane torque, BUT - it's not a sports car engine and the 335d is not a sportscar, even if it wears the E92 suit.

On the other hand using such serial setup on gasoline turboed engines would be effective, too, but would be prone to failures due to higher exhaust temps of gasoline engines or I dunno why. Maybe someone wiser could tell us?
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2007, 05:52 PM   #3
Craigito
Captain
Craigito's Avatar
126
Rep
832
Posts

Drives: 16' F82 M4
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M4   [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by judec View Post
For the 335d:
it is an effective trade-off of quicker spool-up and low and torque vs. high end performance. In single turbo setup the turbo sizing is very sensitive topic. Put a small turbo in it and U'll spo9ol up quicker and pull from lower rpm, but U'll loose your breath at higher rpm's. Vice versa with turbos too big - U'll be able to compete gasoline engines, but until U get there... ouch. So the BMW sd setup should cure both of those handicaps - 286 HP and absolutely insane torque, BUT - it's not a sports car engine and the 335d is not a sportscar, even if it wears the E92 suit.

On the other hand using such serial setup on gasoline turboed engines would be effective, too, but would be prone to failures due to higher exhaust temps of gasoline engines or I dunno why. Maybe someone wiser could tell us?
Yep..I understand the pros/cons of each setup. I'm just wondering why the same setup wasn't used on both iterations.
__________________
Previous Ride 2007 335I Coupe / Space / Black Dakota / Gray Poplar / ZSP / ZPP / Step / Paddles / Nav / Hot Seats / IPOD/ Xpel HL

Current Ride 2016 M4 / Mineral Gray / DCT/ Full Black Leather / 19in Gunmetal / Executive /LED/Ohlinds RT/SSR DP-CP-Intake/AP Essex 9668/Bootmod STG 2/DINAN HE
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2007, 05:58 PM   #4
stressdoc
Moderator
stressdoc's Avatar
Dominica
616
Rep
10,854
Posts

Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Waco TX

iTrader: (0)

Might be possible to put two of the twin-sequential turbos on the gas engine. That would be interesting.
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2007, 08:51 PM   #5
Insider
Captain
Insider's Avatar
14
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: 4,500 feet above sea level

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigito View Post
Yep..I understand the pros/cons of each setup. I'm just wondering why the same setup wasn't used on both iterations.
The 335i makes 300hp with 8.5 psi boost. The 335D needs 26psi to make 286hp. In order to get 26psi, you need a big turbo. That's why it is setup different. Simply put, diesel engines simply don't make the power of gas engines, expecially in the high rpm area, that's why they need so much boost.
__________________
http://www.insiderpicks.com - The world's best stock picks.
Appreciate 1
      08-18-2007, 11:33 PM   #6
Craigito
Captain
Craigito's Avatar
126
Rep
832
Posts

Drives: 16' F82 M4
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 BMW M4   [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Insider View Post
The 335i makes 300hp with 8.5 psi boost. The 335D needs 26psi to make 286hp. In order to get 26psi, you need a big turbo. That's why it is setup different. Simply put, diesel engines simply don't make the power of gas engines, expecially in the high rpm area, that's why they need so much boost.
Perfect explanation. Thanks.
__________________
Previous Ride 2007 335I Coupe / Space / Black Dakota / Gray Poplar / ZSP / ZPP / Step / Paddles / Nav / Hot Seats / IPOD/ Xpel HL

Current Ride 2016 M4 / Mineral Gray / DCT/ Full Black Leather / 19in Gunmetal / Executive /LED/Ohlinds RT/SSR DP-CP-Intake/AP Essex 9668/Bootmod STG 2/DINAN HE
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2007, 11:49 PM   #7
533ogetnom
Banned
95
Rep
1,760
Posts

Drives: 335coupe
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Florida

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insider View Post
The 335i makes 300hp with 8.5 psi boost. The 335D needs 26psi to make 286hp. In order to get 26psi, you need a big turbo. That's why it is setup different. Simply put, diesel engines simply don't make the power of gas engines, expecially in the high rpm area, that's why they need so much boost.
uhhh...

diesel engines dont make as much power in the "high rpm area" because they DONT HAVE a high rpm area, it makes the same amount of HP at freaking 4k rpms! if it could rev to 7k, jesus christ the thing would be twice the power of the 335

and if you think diesels cant develop the same power as gas engines, try having a conversation with these guys, they will teach you a thing or two




but yea, turbo diesels do need a ton of psi
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2007, 12:07 AM   #8
Beer Goggles
First Lieutenant
6
Rep
310
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i E92, 6MT, Sport
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Riverside, CA

iTrader: (0)

The PSI difference is more about the difference in fuel and flash point rather than just looking at how much pressure is needed to make power.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2007, 03:34 AM   #9
Panoz
Lieutenant Colonel
Panoz's Avatar
82
Rep
1,575
Posts

Drives: E92 Space Grey 335i ,Aero Kit
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: EU

iTrader: (0)

Does the 335d uses the same type of turbos as the 335i ?
__________________

Procede V4 , Catless DPs, Forge FMIC, Injen Intake, VK Oilcooler, Hartge Quads Exhaust, Modded CDV, Synapse BOV Kit, BMW Performance 335i SSK Kit, P3 vent boost gauge

Space Grey 335i -> See more pics HERE
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2007, 03:35 AM   #10
roofer
Lieutenant
roofer's Avatar
United Kingdom
21
Rep
584
Posts

Drives: 335D M Saloon
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Essex

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
it's not a sports car engine
Agreed.

Quote:
the 335d is not a sportscar
Depends how you define 'Sportscar' i suppose.

They can be remapped to 340bhp, and over 500ft lLb of torque.

Our roads are better suited to the 'D' i know, but they take some catching.

The biggest problem (for me) is the engine has no soul.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2007, 04:58 AM   #11
e.n335
Moderator
e.n335's Avatar
Austria
268
Rep
4,481
Posts

Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Switzerland, ZH

iTrader: (0)

Diesel Engines

Hi,

The only time I liked my ( chipped ) X5 3.0d has been at the gas station from time to time. Due to the narrow rpm range available you have to shift more often compared to a petrol engine ( the steptronic does this for you ). No top-end power, no engine sound, no higher rpm's. No fun. A diesel makes sense in a big and heavy car like a SUV/SAV. Not in a 335.

My 2 cents.

Cheers
Eugen
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2007, 07:54 AM   #12
Jerseystyle1
Boris the Blade
Jerseystyle1's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
317
Posts

Drives: Montego Blue 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: FT Leonard Wood, MO

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panoz View Post
Does the 335d uses the same type of turbos as the 335i ?

Read above.....
__________________
Allan

Montego Blue 335i Sedan w/Navi/Magnetic Black NISMO 350Z #831/76' Mini 1100 "SPECIAL" Export

Appreciate 0
      08-19-2007, 12:59 PM   #13
judec
born to be turbocharged
judec's Avatar
Slovakia
24
Rep
1,347
Posts

Drives: Not a bimmer yet
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Slovakia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by roofer View Post
Agreed.

Depends how you define 'Sportscar' i suppose.

They can be remapped to 340bhp, and over 500ft lLb of torque.

Our roads are better suited to the 'D' i know, but they take some catching.

The biggest problem (for me) is the engine has no soul.
the term Sportscar does not necessarily refer to a car with lot of HP/TQ. It needs something more. It's not easy to explain, what exactly - performance? YES. Torque? Yes. Transmission? Yes. Suspension? Yes. Wheels & Tires? Yes + all of this and more complementing each other, packed in a nice package. Now dont get me wrong, nuthing against 335d, it's a really comfortable long distance cruiser, but chipped or not, it's far from a sportscar. That's not dishonesting it, no way, it's just a fact. In fact the 335i also isn't a sportscar, but supported with a few mods it's really close, closer like the 335d.
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:37 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST