[PK2348]

Everything i read about this on the F10s seems to praise the way car handles when equiped with active roll bars and electronically controled dampers. xdrive stays perfectly flat in turns when equiped with this. Does anyone know if eventually this system will make onto F30s?

[Tsuyoi]

Probably not. Whole point of 3 series is more road feel and direct steering. Active roll bars and electronic dampers would just make it feel like a small 5 series.

[PK2348]

How to active roll bars and electronic dampers take away from direct steering, which btw f30 lacks, unless you get VSS then maybe. You can already have electronic dampers as part of dynamic handling package. Some say it provides more road feel

[clarence]

They were praised on the F10 cos the base setting on the F10 is way below par (due to the heavy unladen weight of the car).
The F30 doesn't need adaptive drive to handle well, in fact all it needs is the passive M-sport suspension. Adaptive M doesn't provide better handling than passive M, if u want the best then just get aftermarket coilover such as KW.

[PK2348]

Originally Posted by clarence

They were praised on the F10 cos the base setting on the F10 is way below par (due to the heavy unladen weight of the car).
The F30 doesn't need adaptive drive to handle well, in fact all it needs is the passive M-sport suspension. Adaptive M doesn't provide better handling than passive M, if u want the best then just get aftermarket coilover such as KW.

mine is leased. can they be fitted to an xdrive?

[Tsuvoi]

What's the diff between the f10 electronic dampers and the F30 adaptive suspensions?

[PK2348]

probably very similar, but you can get active roll bars on f10

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by ft1337

What's the diff between the f10 electronic dampers and the F30 adaptive suspensions?

F30 comes as the adaptive M-sport package, one version only. F10 can be just the adaptive dampers with standard suspension. Also can be part of the the full Adaptive Drive (VDC & ARS) according to models/markets.

The dampers themselves; F30 is a simplest form of CDC, with single proportional valve on each damper, coping with both compression and rebound damping variations. F10 uses the more advanced version of CDCe with two proportional valves per damper, dedicated to one function, compression or rebound settings.

As a general note, on Adaptive Drive, the ARS function is, in my opinion, the key element to variable suspension, enables a car to have far better anti-roll characteristics, without the need for stiff (passive) ARBs and the negatives that causes, on the straight and over single wheel bumps where wheel copy unsettles a chassis.

With Adaptive Drive the car handles far better even in comfort mode, as the cornering power and flatness is still pronounced. I can imagine it would be brilliant in the F30 chassis, but an expensive option in most users opinion, I guess.

HighlandPete

[clarence]

Originally Posted by PK2348

mine is leased. can they be fitted to an xdrive?

Or u can go for the M-performance suspension kit, if available later.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I can imagine it would be brilliant in the F30 chassis, but an expensive option in most users opinion, I guess.

Probably not for the F30 cos the whole setup adds too much to the unsprung weight of the car.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by clarence

Probably not for the F30 cos the whole setup adds too much to the unsprung weight of the car.

How does ARS add to unsprung weight? The ARB 'motors' are mounted to the chassis, not unsprung components. ARB ends may be slightly thicker, but drop links are virtually the same as the passive suspension.

Will make the car weight more for sure, but would improve the sprung to unsprung ratio. Which factor is a positive aspect of suspension function in any vehicle.

It is clear it helps 'shrink' the vehicles and improves the driving feel in the bigger models, like 5, 5GT, 6 & 7 series and the X5, X6. Whether many 3-series drivers would see the need, I'm not sure, but it would make a 3-series feel more agile, IMO.

HighlandPete

[PK2348]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I can imagine it would be brilliant in the F30 chassis, but an expensive option in most users opinion, I guess.

HighlandPete

i will pay. BMW please take my money

[SamS]

Originally Posted by PK2348

i will pay. BMW please take my money

I'm pretty sure an F80 M3 will give you the suspension options and performance that you're looking for.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

It is clear it helps 'shrink' the vehicles and improves the driving feel in the bigger models, like 5, 5GT, 6 & 7 series and the X5, X6. Whether many 3-series drivers would see the need, I'm not sure, but it would make a 3-series feel more agile, IMO.

ARS is good for the bigger models cos it enhances passenger comfort & to a degree mitigate the cumbersome feel due to the heavy weight. It won't help the F30 cos it's relatively light. It'll make it less agile due to the extra weight of the whole system.
Too many of these active systems will actually reduce road feel, that's why time & again the most the M cars get is EDC.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

How does ARS add to unsprung weight?

It's considered as unsprung weight cos it's directly connected to the suspension system as well as being a part of the system.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by clarence

It's considered as unsprung weight cos it's directly connected to the suspension system as well as being a part of the system.

But what 'proportion' is actually unsprung, and what difference to a passive system? If it is 1kg more per axle, it would be probably over the top for weight increase.

As I said before, the ARB 'motors' are clamped to body, therefore are not unsprung weight by any definition.

HighlandPete

[Vector Pilot]

I think the question has been asked and answered... But me allow to ask again. Does the Dynamic Handling Package perform the same or similar task?

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by clarence

ARS is good for the bigger models cos it enhances passenger comfort & to a degree mitigate the cumbersome feel due to the heavy weight. It won't help the F30 cos it's relatively light. It'll make it less agile due to the extra weight of the whole system.
Too many of these active systems will actually reduce road feel, that's why time & again the most the M cars get is EDC.

It is clear in the 5-series that the options do make the cars more BMW like in driving feel. How we define it is subjective, as it is different to what we'd normally sense from a passive suspension.

Exactly how this would translate to smaller chassis like a 3 (or even 1 series) is hard to predict. Certainly different, but whether better or worse for road feel, hard to know and judge without a system being available.

I personally think cost is part of the reason why we won't likely see it in smaller cars, at this stage, but do take on board the comment on M-cars. But is that because it doesn't work, or is there more to it? Reading some of the technical papers on ARS systems, it is accepted that there are less compromiseds to a suspension system when we can control the ARB characteristics. Suggest we watch this space, as alternative and simpler systems are developed and tested.

HighlandPete

[clarence]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

It is clear in the 5-series that the options do make the cars more BMW like in driving feel. How we define it is subjective, as it is different to what we'd normally sense from a passive suspension.
I personally think cost is part of the reason why we won't likely see it in smaller cars, at this stage, but do take on board the comment on M-cars. But is that because it doesn't work, or is there more to it? Reading some of the technical papers on ARS systems, it is accepted that there are less compromiseds to a suspension system when we can control the ARB characteristics. Suggest we watch this space, as alternative and simpler systems are developed and tested.

The problem with the F10 is it's excessively heavy for it's class (avg delta of 100kgs over the equivalent engined E6x) & the standard suspension is too soft. Also BMW never provided the press with F10's that are either not specced with standard suspension or adaptive drive/EDC. So in the press nobody commented on how good or bad the F10 M-sport suspension.
I did previously asked over at the F10 forum the UK guys how they feel abt the M-sport suspension on the F10 & it seems those that have it are satisfied with wht they have. So the problem with handling can be solved by having M-sport (or better still a set of KWs). It's the ride comfort which needs EDC at least. Notice that previously BMW packaged the whole ARS+EDC system so that u must have both for 535i or above, but after 2011 u can have either EDC or EDC+ARS for 535i or above. For most F10 having EDC on itself is already good enough, tho the heavier versions might benefit from ARS.
I think the weight of a vehicle plays a large part in whether ARS is beneficial or not. E.g. it's preferred to have ARS on a Porsche Cayenne & not on a 911 (PDCC is available on both). Using an active system on a heavy car means u can control weight transfer more effectively without the need for thick & stiff anti-roll bars, whereas a passive system is already good enough on a lighter car as there's less weight transfer. The main point of the active system is to maintain comfort whilst at the same time being able to control bodyroll.
As I said before, too many active systems dampens driving feel, hence u don't see ARS tech on cars such as R35 GTR, but to a certain degree manufacturers accepted that EDC is a must cos the car have to have an acceptable ride quality for day to day driving.
If u talk abt the F30 then it's not heavy enought to benefit from ARS. Even on the M-sport/M-performance the front anti-roll bar is only 22mm in diameter.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

As I said before, the ARB 'motors' are clamped to body, therefore are not unsprung weight by any definition.

I think it's actually fixed to the subframe, & as we all know, it's function is to dampen NVH from the suspension system.
BMW considers the subframe as part of the suspension system, hence it's part numbers have the same starting digits as other suspension components.
The links from the oscillating motor to the suspension drop-links have to be significantly stronger than a normal anti-roll bar cos it has to minimise torsional movement when the suspension compresses during cornering.

[clarence]

Originally Posted by Vector Pilot

I think the question has been asked and answered... But me allow to ask again. Does the Dynamic Handling Package perform the same or similar task?

Similar except DHP has variable ratio steering (according to steering lock, passive system) but not active roll stabilisation.

[Vector Pilot]

Originally Posted by clarence

Similar except DHP has variable ratio steering (according to steering lock, passive system) but not active roll stabilisation.

clarence, thanks for reply, one more question. Will DHP, in Sport Mode, reduce body roll and enhance steering?