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      09-07-2012, 05:56 PM   #1
whiteM5
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f10 M5 tune problem *roadblock*

So I checked in with my local tuner (Dynocomp) in Scottsdale and they said they're stuck in a holding pattern because the car communicates back to BMW if you put a tune in so your warranty will be at risk. Furthermore, after 100 miles the vehicle won't start. This sounds really extreme and just curious if anybody has gotten a software reprogram done successfully. I want more boost!

I think it's fair for BMW to void a warranty, but the car not running is a little extreme. Anybody else run into this?
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      09-07-2012, 10:26 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteM5 View Post
So I checked in with my local tuner (Dynocomp) in Scottsdale and they said they're stuck in a holding pattern because the car communicates back to BMW if you put a tune in so your warranty will be at risk. Furthermore, after 100 miles the vehicle won't start. This sounds really extreme and just curious if anybody has gotten a software reprogram done successfully. I want more boost!

I think it's fair for BMW to void a warranty, but the car not running is a little extreme. Anybody else run into this?
I'm sure a skilled programmer can "crack" the code and thereby prevent the car from communicating that to BMW
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      09-08-2012, 03:11 AM   #3
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I'm sure a skilled programmer can "crack" the code and thereby prevent the car from communicating that to BMW
Nope. BMW has been doing this since they started shipping the N54 / N55 engines.
There're a number of codes which are not visible to normal diagnostic tools and even your local dealer has no control on what gets sent to BMW NA once they connect the car to the shop's diagnostic system.
As long as you only need an oil change or something simple there's no risk , but anything which requires further diagnostic (or approval) you have to assume BMW NA will see your DME's data/info.
If you ask the N54/N55 community you'll see that BMW has been very aggressive on going after these aftermarket tunes and voiding warranties if they're found. They also have continuously updated the DME software to eliminate aftermarket/piggyback tunes or at least reduce their effects.
Dinan gets away with as they assume BMW's warranty for engine/transmission and the factory warranty is no longer in effect (for this reason you can also not CPO a Dinan car, your car will be flagged in the BMW database as a Dinan car). As long as you believe/trust Dinan (or any other Tuner) to do the right thing when it comes to warranty
you'll be "fine" . My own experience has been different and it turned out Dinan's warranty coverage has been far from what they've advertised (granted the local BMW/Dinan dealer wasn't very helpful either)

Now I stop ....
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      09-08-2012, 04:07 AM   #4
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i could have swore there's no shortage of N55 chips out there...perhaps there are, but they are all doomed to fail

aside from that though, what about chips that you can change back to factory settings for service - then return to the performance setting afterward - wouldn't those at least theoretically defeat the evil mother ship?
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      09-08-2012, 07:48 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeEmDrool
i could have swore there's no shortage of N55 chips out there...perhaps there are, but they are all doomed to fail

aside from that though, what about chips that you can change back to factory settings for service - then return to the performance setting afterward - wouldn't those at least theoretically defeat the evil mother ship?
Nope..at least that I'm aware of
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      09-08-2012, 12:35 PM   #6
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well this is rather unfortunate, i dont know about you guys but i planned on at least a stage 1 tune, guess if even that will kill the warranty this cars gonna have to be tuned to be a monster, warranty be damned.
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      09-08-2012, 02:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MakeEmDrool View Post
i could have swore there's no shortage of N55 chips out there...perhaps there are, but they are all doomed to fail

aside from that though, what about chips that you can change back to factory settings for service - then return to the performance setting afterward - wouldn't those at least theoretically defeat the evil mother ship?
With some of the piggybacks you can (likely) avoid the dealer finding any suspicious codes if you remove them before service and erase all codes via an aftermarket scan tool. However there're also hidden (shadow) codes which may not be as easily erased.
Also be aware many dealer have been given out incentives to their techs to look for physical evidence of piggybacks/chips via visual inspect of the DME housing / cable splicing etc . Also you have to be aware that if an area rep looks at your car for any warranty claims and finds sign of modifications to the engine (sw/hw) they will likely void the warranty on the engine and related components (sometimes they have also voided full pump claims etc). Another possible issue is that BMW FS might make you buy out your lease as the car is no longer under manufacturer warranty (this also applies to Dinan tuned cars as they can't be "un"-Dinan'd) .

if you don't have a good relationship with your dealer running with a tune or downpipes, larger intercooler etc is in my opinion not worth the risk.
Especially as BMW is adding more and more detection capabilities into their sw it's just a matter of time until you run into issues.
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      09-08-2012, 02:24 PM   #8
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Deyom road blocks. I come from a highly modified N54 335. I know the potential these turboed engines have and it will blow your mind. Hope some smart people out there come up with some smart ideas!!!! As they say, where there is a will there is a way! lol.
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      09-10-2012, 05:41 AM   #9
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I guess we'll have to settle for a measly 620hp or whatever it's putting out to crank.
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      09-10-2012, 01:30 PM   #10
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Nothing is untunable. There is no such thing so give it time and 100% the car will be tuned for more power so just a matter of time.

Access to modify BMW ECU is not like nuclear reactor codes. IT can be beat
Patience grasshoppers

As for voided warranty, ahem that is another matter.
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      09-10-2012, 02:39 PM   #11
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i wrote to several tuners in Germany, AC-Schnitzer, Kelleneres,and aswell Manhart.

Most of the tuners had a press care somewhere with 620-640hp, but most of them answered me the are not ready for costumers so fare.

The ones who are able apparently have a so called "pre software date base" (german "Vor serien datenstand") a software witch was used by the m gmbh for testing purpose before releasing the car.

We had quit a few interesting chats over in the m-forum (german bmw m forum) about the "actuel" tuning possibilities right now for the m5f10
and all experienced the same.

So far Manhart offers 640 hp right now (need the car for about 4 hours)to the costumers and they hope to be ready with 730hp+ next spring, including reenforced rear axel and reenforced double clutch system.

So there must be something truth about tuning difficulties to the m5f10, witch the x6m/x5m didnt have....
It looks like the all need a bit more time to do something real powerful
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      09-10-2012, 03:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-ch View Post
i wrote to several tuners in Germany, AC-Schnitzer, Kelleneres,and aswell Manhart.

Most of the tuners had a press care somewhere with 620-640hp, but most of them answered me the are not ready for costumers so fare.

The ones who are able apparently have a so called "pre software date base" (german "Vor serien datenstand") a software witch was used by the m gmbh for testing purpose before releasing the car.

We had quit a few interesting chats over in the m-forum (german bmw m forum) about the "actuel" tuning possibilities right now for the m5f10
and all experienced the same.

So far Manhart offers 640 hp right now (need the car for about 4 hours)to the costumers and they hope to be ready with 730hp+ next spring, including reenforced rear axel and reenforced double clutch system.

So there must be something truth about tuning difficulties to the m5f10, witch the x6m/x5m didnt have....
It looks like the all need a bit more time to do something real powerful
And addressing the DCT transmission is a sensible thing to do... it's current (official) design limit is at 700nm/515lbs-st which is just 20nm/15lbs-ft shy from the stock numbers ....
Given the S63B44T0 has actually two DMEs etc is yet another challenge for aftermarket folks. But as has been said by you and others, it's a matter of time and capabilities

- Jan
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      09-10-2012, 06:52 PM   #13
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I don't know the history with BMW, but in the U.S. at least we have some legal protections from "hair trigger" voiding of warranties. I have personal experience with this and the Nissan GT-R. Note that early on that car was also thought to be "untunable," with Nissan boasting that their ECU was protected, etc. I had a Cobb tune when my transmission blew while on a racetrack. I swapped the programming back to "stock" before dropping it off for service (I could still drive on the "even" gears). When the corporate guys called to deny my warranty claim, saying that they had recorded higher boost than was possible with a stock tune, I freely admitted the tuning. But, in the U.S., the burden is on them to show that my mods caused the failure. Since the failure was electronic and not mechanical, they agreed that they couldn't say with confidence that the tuning was the problem. They agreed to replace the tranny under warranty (a $20K part). But their initial attitude was so bad that I ended up lemon law'ing the car back to them.

Anyway, definitely tune at your own risk, but also know your rights...
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      09-10-2012, 06:59 PM   #14
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sounds like you had a good turnout, i know several people have used lemon law protection to get out of tough spots, i think a member even posted on here about a loop hole to lemon law the car on the rear end clunk... so was it worth it on the nissan?
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      09-10-2012, 08:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteM5 View Post
sounds like you had a good turnout, i know several people have used lemon law protection to get out of tough spots, i think a member even posted on here about a loop hole to lemon law the car on the rear end clunk... so was it worth it on the nissan?
Well, I got to drive one of the first GT-Rs in California for nine months and then got 98% of my money back (including the $10K premium I paid the $tealer), so I think I did ok. I loved the car, but they refused to promise me that if the same thing happened again that they would cover it again. I told them that I had a Civic Hybrid for getting groceries and didn't need another, so the car had to go back.

This was in the early days of the GT-R when several people had tranny issues. I sold it back out of fear more than spite.
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      11-02-2012, 12:55 PM   #16
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Does Dyno-comp have an ETA of completion? What's their strategy to get passed this roadblock?
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      11-13-2012, 12:31 PM   #17
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I talked to Goodspeed Performance, and they said they've never heard of the tune phoning home, and pretty much said that was BS. They said the only roadblock is the new encryption and ESS is working on cracking it and it should be available shortly.
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      11-20-2012, 08:41 AM   #18
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For your information, ECU (stage 1) is done and now available for F10 M5 / F12,13 M6 vehicles.
Please contact GTHAUS for more info. Here is a teaser video

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