E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > Lifetime Fluids



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-09-2005, 08:27 AM   #1
fredtoo
First Lieutenant
fredtoo's Avatar
15
Rep
340
Posts

Drives: 325 328 350
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nj

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1986 328  [0.00]
2006 325  [0.00]
Lifetime Fluids

I have dropped the car off at the dealer to have the fluids changed, and they are telling me that they are sealed for life, and never need the fluid changed.

My thoughts are that they are sealed for 60,000 miles, and if they break after that you are SOL.

I would prefer to play it on the safe side, and have the fluids changed.

Has anyone else been able to change the fluid in the differential or the standard transmission?
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2005, 08:58 AM   #2
ward
Major General
151
Rep
6,158
Posts

Drives: F
Join Date: May 2005
Location: T

iTrader: (0)

they still have drainplugs

these oils don't need the same amount of maint as engine oil though
back in dino oil days I think the interval was either 15 or 30 thousand miles
now with synthetic I'd imagine going 50-60 would probably be fine

I would make damn sure to get the tranny fluid changed if I planned to keep the car a long time
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2005, 09:31 AM   #3
fredtoo
First Lieutenant
fredtoo's Avatar
15
Rep
340
Posts

Drives: 325 328 350
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nj

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1986 328  [0.00]
2006 325  [0.00]
Are you sure about the drain plugs? I did not see one on the diff, and I did not get far enough under the car to check out the 6mt.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2005, 09:37 AM   #4
ward
Major General
151
Rep
6,158
Posts

Drives: F
Join Date: May 2005
Location: T

iTrader: (0)

not sure how the placement would be, there should be 2 on the diff
one up high on the pumpkin for filling and one either low on the side or facing downward

I honestly haven't looked under the car, but I would be surprised if they've changed designs.

the tranny has to have drainplugs, if it leaked there would be no way to refill it otherwise
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2005, 12:14 PM   #5
voltron1011
Colonel
voltron1011's Avatar
119
Rep
2,909
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i, FJR-1300
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wiesbaden

iTrader: (2)

Are you refering to auto or manual trannies? I wouldn't worry about the manual tranny fluid for at least 100,000 miles (or more). The same with the rear diff. Lubricants have evolved a lot since the days of putting grease in your manual tranny.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2005, 12:58 PM   #6
fredtoo
First Lieutenant
fredtoo's Avatar
15
Rep
340
Posts

Drives: 325 328 350
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nj

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1986 328  [0.00]
2006 325  [0.00]
I am sure that the FLUID is much better, but the issue that concerns me is the metal shaving that come off of the geats when the gears are new. This crap then works its way into the beaings.

Flushing out this contaminated oil is a good thing.

If you search for the guy that did the oil analysis on the engine oil, you would see that the analysis co was concerned about the abrasives in the engine oil. The trans is no different.
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2005, 01:02 PM   #7
Bimmerista
Major General
Bimmerista's Avatar
Canada
82
Rep
5,732
Posts

Drives: superstock
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

iTrader: (0)

I remember reading in the e90 product manual that the transmission fluids are sealed for life - not sure you could change them even if you wanted to.

While in practice you may be right in that there is always a finite moment where it will break down I have a feeling that this moment is going to happen at very high mileage-in practice I would not worry about it (unless you forget yout hand foot coordination with a manual.....crunch )
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2005, 01:47 PM   #8
fredtoo
First Lieutenant
fredtoo's Avatar
15
Rep
340
Posts

Drives: 325 328 350
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nj

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1986 328  [0.00]
2006 325  [0.00]
Copied from another post about motor oil.
Does anyone have a link to an on line parts diagram for the E90?

<snip>



Drives: E90 SG 330i 6MT
Location: San Diego, CA
Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 39

Here is the response I got back from Mike Miller, the BMW Car Club of America magizine "Roundel" Tech Talk expert....
****************
Hi Mike,

You'll get as many answers as people you ask about motor oil, perhaps more. All I can tell you is what I do. I adhere to the BMW maintenance schedule that was in force before BMW starting paying for maintenance, and then lengthened or eliminated all the intervals. I perform a break-in service at 1,200 miles that includes engine oil and filter, manual gearbox oil, and differential oil changes. I don't mess with automatic transmissions. Thereafter, I change gearbox and differential oil every 30,000 miles.

And by the way, you and I are old school, and it's not nonsense. Today's marketing baloney of "maintenance free cars" is nonsense. Anything can be maintenance free -- just don't maintain it.

Best regards,
Mike Miller
****************
Bottom line, if you like your car, care about resale value, change your oil. At a bare minimum, change it every 7,500 miles...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      11-09-2005, 02:01 PM   #9
MTMnet
Private First Class
MTMnet's Avatar
United_States
23
Rep
119
Posts

Drives: E90 335i Manual
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Here is some more info from Mike Miller on this subject:
*************
I have not yet had a chance to work on one or look at one underneath. Speaking with a reader who has, he said there is a drain plug on the gearbox but not the differential, and for the latter, we have to use a hand operated suction pump. Speaking with a BMW Master Technician, he said he hasn't had a chance to look at an E90 manual gearbox because it is covered by some sort of cover. He does not remember not seeing a drain plug on the differential, and he is presently on medical leave for the next two weeks. So, I don't have a definitive answer for you. However, I can say that if there is a fill plug -- and there has to be a fill plug unless they want us to replace the component in the event of a leak -- then you can drain the oil, but you will need a hand pump. Now, where to buy a hand pump. This is another aspect of the E90 I have not yet had time to research. My first stop will be the NAPA store. And I suspect that we will need some sort of pipe -- probably brake pipe or fuel pipe, bent just so and stuck into the pump hose, so that we can make sure we are reaching the bottom of the component.

Will it be a perfect drain? No.
****************************
__________________
2009 BMW 335i Sedan 6 Speed
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2005, 09:10 AM   #10
fredtoo
First Lieutenant
fredtoo's Avatar
15
Rep
340
Posts

Drives: 325 328 350
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nj

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1986 328  [0.00]
2006 325  [0.00]
Got back from the Dealer,

There is NO drain plug on the diff, but there is one on the 6mt trans.

However

There is a BIG sticker on the trans, telling you not to change the fluid.
The fluid spec is a LT3, changed from the LT1 on the previous generation transmission.

The Sevice Advisor will check with BMW to see how we can change the fluid, and not void the warrenty.

While BMW says it is sealed for life, they do not specify the definition of the life of the trans.
Asuming it will last the life of the car's warrenty on the original fluid, 60,000 miles is not good enough for me.
Appreciate 0
      11-10-2005, 10:45 AM   #11
MTMnet
Private First Class
MTMnet's Avatar
United_States
23
Rep
119
Posts

Drives: E90 335i Manual
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredtoo
Got back from the Dealer,

There is NO drain plug on the diff, but there is one on the 6mt trans.

However

There is a BIG sticker on the trans, telling you not to change the fluid.
The fluid spec is a LT3, changed from the LT1 on the previous generation transmission.

The Sevice Advisor will check with BMW to see how we can change the fluid, and not void the warrenty.

While BMW says it is sealed for life, they do not specify the definition of the life of the trans.
Asuming it will last the life of the car's warrenty on the original fluid, 60,000 miles is not good enough for me.
Good post. Thanks for the info. Please keep us updated.

BMW needs to understand that some of it's customers don't buy into the no maintenance crap. If we are willing to pay for additional maintenance, they should welcome it as it only helps their dealers make money and it keeps its customers that plan to keep their cars past the warranty happy.

We should start a letter campain...
Mike
PS. They need to put a darn drain plug on that rear diff.
__________________
2009 BMW 335i Sedan 6 Speed
Appreciate 0
      11-11-2005, 10:44 AM   #12
MTMnet
Private First Class
MTMnet's Avatar
United_States
23
Rep
119
Posts

Drives: E90 335i Manual
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

I will trust "lifetime fill" when BMW gives me a "lifetime warranty."

Another quote from BMW CCA's Tech Talk, Mike Miller
*******************************************
It is unbelievable to me that thinking people actually debate whether to leave the break-in gearbox and differential oil in service forever. Now, whether it becomes an issue in your life if these components are worn out around 100,000 miles obviously depends on how long you keep the car.

Personally, I will trust "lifetime fill" when BMW gives me a "lifetime warranty." I think the below individual is on the right track when he compared the "lifetime" to the "warranty period."

For the record, my 2005 325Ci had a break-in service at 1,200 miles, using Red Line 10W-40 in the engine, Red Line MTL in the manual gearbox, and Red Line 75W-90 in the differential. I did it myself here in the Tech Talk garage. The oil I drained was FULL of metal, just like all break-in oil I have ever drained. I will continue to maintain it, and I fully expect these components will be in service at 300,000 miles.

Best,
Mike Miller
__________________
2009 BMW 335i Sedan 6 Speed
Appreciate 0
      11-18-2005, 11:13 PM   #13
RichP
Major
RichP's Avatar
United_States
144
Rep
1,184
Posts

Drives: F80
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: CT

iTrader: (4)

Haha, I was the reader that talked to Mike a while back and noted there wasnt a drain on the differential.

I think what he as to say is completely on-point; granted, synthetic fluids essentaily do last forever, but what else gets in them is the concern, and they need changing.
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2005, 10:47 PM   #14
AZMike
New Member
0
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: -
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sacramento

iTrader: (0)

I agree 100% with the other Mike as well. IMO, differentials and Manual Transmissions tend to produce significant amounts of metal shavings upon break-in, while ATs produce close to none...for example, many of the 3G Acura TL factory Manual Transmission Fluids I've seen contain a layer of metal shavings in the bottom of the fluid upon draining it out. OTOH, manufacturing debris nowdays is close to none...the metal generated is from break-in.

As I've posted in another thread...someone mentioned that the MTF-LT-03 is what the E90 uses. I do not know if the composition of MTF-LT-03 fluid, but I'll be checking with Redline and Royal Purple and will report back to you folks when I receive more info. However, if the MTF-LT-03 fluid replaces the MTF-LT-01 fluid, then I'd either use Royal Purple Synchromax, Specialty Formulations MTFGlide, or Redline D4 ATF as a replacement for the MTF-LT-01 fluid. Many people have had success with the Synchromax on the M5 boards, and the D4 ATF has been a popular replacement for the MTF-LT-01 fluid on E46 boards.

Although no one mentioned Autos in this thread, BMW uses two brands of Auto Trannies within the last few years...either a GM sourced unit or a ZF unit. (You can check by looking underneath your car) The ZF transmissions take Esso LT71141ATF, which you can buy from VW/Audi dealers or online from sites such as worldimpex for around $15/L...there are also a good number of reverse-engineered aftermarket ATFs for the Esso LT71141 app, such as Valvoline Durablend ATF, Valvoline Maxlife ATF, Pennzoil/Quaker State Multi-Vehicle ATF, or Redline D4 ATF...my personal favorite out of those is Redline D4 ATF, as its a full-synthetic. If you have a GM transmission, the transmission either specs Texaco 7045E, 8072B, or DexIII. For example, the X3 shares the same GM transmission as the Cadillac SRX, and the Cadillac SRX specs DexIII-H (now DexVI) as lifetime fill. Thus, I'd have no worries about using a full syn DexIII-H ATF in place of the factory Texaco 7045E or 8072B...actually, Amsoil recommends their Universal ATF for Texaco 7045E apps.

Any 75w-90 should work for the rear differential...Mobil 1 is probably the easiest to obtain...I totally agree with the others in regards to the intervals...do an initial change before 10K then every 50K thereafter is more than enough, though you may want to do it more frequently on the Manual Transmission if it helps shift quality.

Theoretically, there has got to be a way of re-filling the transmission after a repair, so there must be a fill plug even if there isn't a drain plug. Thus, one can use a fluid extractor to extract the old fluid thru the fill plug, if its possible.

Last edited by AZMike; 11-26-2005 at 05:57 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-01-2005, 08:28 AM   #15
fredtoo
First Lieutenant
fredtoo's Avatar
15
Rep
340
Posts

Drives: 325 328 350
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: nj

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
1986 328  [0.00]
2006 325  [0.00]
Has anyone found a source for the MTF-LT-03 OEM BMW transmission fluid (manual transmission)?
The local BMW dealers says there is not even a part number for the fluid from BMW.
Appreciate 0
      12-02-2005, 12:56 AM   #16
poldim
Vroom Vrrooooom
poldim's Avatar
Russian Federation
295
Rep
3,146
Posts

Drives: 330i
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2006 330i Sedan  [0.00]
2003 GSX-R 600  [0.00]
Im interested. I also need to get to a dealer and get the basics to change the oil.
__________________
-Dmitriy
06' BMW 330i & 03' Suzuki GSX-R600

SG | Beige Dakota | Poplar || iDrive w/MP3 | PP | SP | CWP | PDC | Comfort | Shades || 40% Tint
| Black Line Tail Lights | Hardwired V1
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2008, 11:17 AM   #17
ManMachine
Lieutenant
ManMachine's Avatar
29
Rep
484
Posts

Drives: E60 528
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest

iTrader: (0)

sorry to bring back an old topic.

If one has the automatic transmission, does that impact whether one should change the differential oil? Has anyone changed the differential oil?

Thanks.
__________________
E60 528
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2008, 11:42 AM   #18
voltron1011
Colonel
voltron1011's Avatar
119
Rep
2,909
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i, FJR-1300
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wiesbaden

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMachine View Post
sorry to bring back an old topic.

If one has the automatic transmission, does that impact whether one should change the differential oil? Has anyone changed the differential oil?

Thanks.
No, the diffs are all the same... I'd be more concerned with the ATF fluid than the rear diff fluid.. If you plan on keeping your car for the 'long haul', I'd suggest getting the ATF professionally flushed (as the transmission is sealed) around 60,000 miles or so...

Also, 'lifetime fill' in cartalk means 120,000 miles (if I'm not mistaken)...
__________________
'06 E90 325i (Delivered May '05) 6-spd manual, Nav, Xenons, 18' 162's, sport-suspension, 15mm RE spacers,
NURBURGRING:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3270
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2008, 12:06 PM   #19
ManMachine
Lieutenant
ManMachine's Avatar
29
Rep
484
Posts

Drives: E60 528
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pacific Northwest

iTrader: (0)

I've heard that the automatic transmissions in BMWs are really a beast that one better no to mess with fluid change (BMWCCA experts).
__________________
E60 528
Appreciate 0
      03-06-2008, 12:19 PM   #20
voltron1011
Colonel
voltron1011's Avatar
119
Rep
2,909
Posts

Drives: 2011 135i, FJR-1300
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wiesbaden

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMachine View Post
I've heard that the automatic transmissions in BMWs are really a beast that one better no to mess with fluid change (BMWCCA experts).
Yeah, it's been an ongoing argument ever since they started sealing all their automatics several years ago... Some people will claim that they need changing and other's will say that they are good for life.. Some cars can go 200,000 miles on the original tranny, while others fail as early as 90,000 miles... There's no rhyme or reason for it.
It all comes down to your comfort level, and how long you plan on holding on to the car...
BTW, This was one of my motivators for getting the manual transmission. I knew I'd be keeping the car for 7 to 10 years and easily going into the 150,000+ mile area.. I didn't want any 'weak links' in the car.
__________________
'06 E90 325i (Delivered May '05) 6-spd manual, Nav, Xenons, 18' 162's, sport-suspension, 15mm RE spacers,
NURBURGRING:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/album.php?albumid=3270
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2011, 03:39 AM   #21
E91Stu
Registered
0
Rep
4
Posts

Drives: E91 325i A/T
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: South Africa

iTrader: (0)

BMW dont make oil or transmissions

HI All,
I contacted ZF in Frederickshaven Germany, and asked about this lifetime sealed for life oil rubbish. The reply was simple, YES we recommend changing the oil in your transmission.
So armed with this recomendation from the manufactures, I aproached motorplan. How can they argue with that? they then agreed to change the oil!
However, as a rule, they 'dont' change trans oil. So I was advised to make a bogus claim that im experiencing a harsh down shift from 2 to 1. There is a SB out on this and the fix is to replace the oil.
oil was replaced and box is now even smoother!

Anyone want to have their oil changed, just mail this man for support :
Thomas Wenzel, Manager Technical Press, Tel. +49 7541-77 2543,
Fax: +49 7541-77 902543, E-mail: thomas.wenzel@zf.com
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2011, 04:54 AM   #22
JunkStory
Major
160
Rep
1,307
Posts

Drives: E92 M3, 8V RS3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 98230

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E91Stu View Post
HI All,
I contacted ZF in Frederickshaven Germany, and asked about this lifetime sealed for life oil rubbish. The reply was simple, YES we recommend changing the oil in your transmission.
So armed with this recomendation from the manufactures, I aproached motorplan. How can they argue with that? they then agreed to change the oil!
However, as a rule, they 'dont' change trans oil. So I was advised to make a bogus claim that im experiencing a harsh down shift from 2 to 1. There is a SB out on this and the fix is to replace the oil.
oil was replaced and box is now even smoother!

Anyone want to have their oil changed, just mail this man for support :
Thomas Wenzel, Manager Technical Press, Tel. +49 7541-77 2543,
Fax: +49 7541-77 902543, E-mail: thomas.wenzel@zf.com
Do you know what is the Service Bulletin number, and how long the job takes?
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:33 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST