[martinf79]

I’ve been told that the actual invoice price to the dealer is usually 18% below the MSRP. 8% is the bare minimum that the dealer will make on the sale, and the other 10% is dealer + sales commission share (hence why they’re willing to negotiate partially here).

In a nut shell, you should be able to push for 8% off MSRP, and the dealer and CA both still make some money.

Can anyone confirm this (for Canada anyway)???

[Maz335i]

Originally Posted by martinf79

I’ve been told that the actual invoice price to the dealer is usually 18% below the MSRP. 8% is the bare minimum that the dealer will make on the sale, and the other 10% is dealer + sales commission share (hence why they’re willing to negotiate partially here).

In a nut shell, you should be able to push for 8% off MSRP, and the dealer and CA both still make some money.

Can anyone confirm this (for Canada anyway)???

Its impossible to get anything over 7% off MSRP.

There are a few people that might be able to push for 7.5% but thats because they either went with more than one car purchase or they know the Dealer Principal. Trust me, I did a lot of research and know the exact figures!

Either way, if you can get anywhere between 5% to 7% off MSRP, consider that a job well done!

Let me know what you get in the end... Good Luck!

[The X Men]

Its all supply and demand, there is a high demand for the F30 and the supplies are limited. The best quote I got from briefly shopping around was $1000 off MSRP.

[bosz]

Originally Posted by martinf79

I’ve been told that the actual invoice price to the dealer is usually 18% below the MSRP. 8% is the bare minimum that the dealer will make on the sale, and the other 10% is dealer + sales commission share (hence why they’re willing to negotiate partially here).

In a nut shell, you should be able to push for 8% off MSRP, and the dealer and CA both still make some money.

Can anyone confirm this (for Canada anyway)???

dealers make almost no money on cars. They make money from their garage and Im pretty sure BMW financial pays them a commission or something when clients opt to finance or lease a car. You're also paying $399 admin fee.

They buy the cars 8% below their sticker price or MSRP. You can fully get the whole 8% off, believe me they'll do it! I got 7% off, though I may try to get another 1% off. So I also got a $1000 loyalty credit and $750 delivery credit. Therefore I got my car way below invoice! Im sure im not the only one who got their car below invoice, its pretty common...so clearly selling cars is not a money maker, but all the service station and all the bs they try to sell you like tints, protection products etc


Sort of like how movies make no money on ticket sales, just popcorn, soft drinks etc or like car rentals make no money or maybe even loose money on rentals, but they try to upsell you insurance and other crap etc

Anyways the biggest money maker for BMW is BMW Financial Services! with 4.9% lease rates you can just imagine the profits..just like how a bank profits. So in the long run its actually a huge loss to not honor 8% off MSRP and possibly loose a client to say Mercedes or Audi Etc. Although most people will settle for 7% which is still awesome. Also, many people will be happy with a small discount which balances out the bigger discounts to fussy clients like most of us on this board

[martinf79]

Originally Posted by bosz

dealers make almost no money on cars. They make money from their garage and Im pretty sure BMW financial pays them a commission or something when clients opt to finance or lease a car. You're also paying $399 admin fee.

They buy the cars 8% below their sticker price or MSRP. You can fully get the whole 8% off, believe me they'll do it! I got 7% off, though I may try to get another 1% off. So I also got a $1000 loyalty credit and $750 delivery credit. Therefore I got my car way below invoice! Im sure im not the only one who got their car below invoice, its pretty common...so clearly selling cars is not a money maker, but all the service station and all the bs they try to sell you like tints, protection products etc


Sort of like how movies make no money on ticket sales, just popcorn, soft drinks etc or like car rentals make no money or maybe even loose money on rentals, but they try to upsell you insurance and other crap etc

Anyways the biggest money maker for BMW is BMW Financial Services! with 4.9% lease rates you can just imagine the profits..just like how a bank profits. So in the long run its actually a huge loss to not honor 8% off MSRP and possibly loose a client to say Mercedes or Audi Etc. Although most people will settle for 7% which is still awesome. Also, many people will be happy with a small discount which balances out the bigger discounts to fussy clients like most of us on this board

That makes sense (as I've been told 8% is very do-able), and also my thinking. Not everyone goes in there negotiating 8% (most are happy w/ <4%), so the blended avg dealer margin is likely 3-4%% (and the customer lifetime value goes up significantly). Will a CA honour 8% though, or do you need to go to a sales manager direct to minimize the sales comission (feel bad, as I've been corresponding w/ a CA for the last few weeks however if I can save an additional $1k, its worth it).

[200Duece]

You will get what you pay for. The CA works on comission and once your blow out of a deal drives away don't expect too much help after the sale. It might be worth the extra 10 dollars a month to create a relationship at a dealer and have someone on the inside goin to bat for you when you need something extra

Just my two cents

[The X Men]

Just because you buy a car from a dealer, that doesnt mean you will service it there. If the dealer is losing money at 8% off msrp, their sales department will not be in business for much longer. Not everybody lease their cars so the high BMW finanace rate will not make up the difference on every sale. Even at invoice price, the dealer still makes a couple of thousand dollars and that doesnt includes the factory bouns for meeting certain sales goals.

[onehungevo]

The salesmen at BMW make money off of the survey. You can ask for the invoice and they have to provide it to you. You should be able to get $2500 off a 3 series that cost around $48k.

[martinf79]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Just because you buy a car from a dealer, that doesnt mean you will service it there. If the dealer is losing money at 8% off msrp, their sales department will not be in business for much longer. Not everybody lease their cars so the high BMW finanace rate will not make up the difference on every sale. Even at invoice price, the dealer still makes a couple of thousand dollars and that doesnt includes the factory bouns for meeting certain sales goals.

DO you know this for a fact (because this is what I've been led to believe as well). Everyone keeps saying that the dealer margin is 8% (even the CA's). No one would ever tell you what their actual cost is, as buyers would always want to come as close to it as possible), so you would always say its lower thn it actually is (its just common sense). If I made 10% on something, I would tell you I made 8%, so that even if we netted out at 7% off, I still make 3% and you feel as though you got a great deal (only paying 1% mark-up).

X Men - from what I understand, the dealer tacks on 8% ontop of true dealer cost (the few thousand you refer to above), and then another 10% for the sales incentives to get to MSRP. So, negotiating 8% off of the 10%, dealer + CA are still making quite a bit of money. Can you confirm this?

[Maz335i]

Originally Posted by martinf79

DO you know this for a fact (because this is what I've been led to believe as well). Everyone keeps saying that the dealer margin is 8% (even the CA's). No one would ever tell you what their actual cost is, as buyers would always want to come as close to it as possible), so you would always say its lower thn it actually is (its just common sense). If I made 10% on something, I would tell you I made 8%, so that even if we netted out at 7% off, I still make 3% and you feel as though you got a great deal (only paying 1% mark-up).

X Men - from what I understand, the dealer tacks on 8% ontop of true dealer cost (the few thousand you refer to above), and then another 10% for the sales incentives to get to MSRP. So, negotiating 8% off of the 10%, dealer + CA are still making quite a bit of money. Can you confirm this?

This definitely is not the case!

Unless the person I know, very very senior individual at BMW of Mississauga lied to me. I dont think he did, hence I'm going to keep my belief in that the dealers make 8% out of which they are willing to negotiate to a MAXIMUM of 7% off MSRP...you'll be EXTREMELY lucky to get anything more...7.5% is given very rarely and only to those who are repeat buyers.

I know several people who got 7% + $750 off MSRP and there were a few (very few) that got 7.5% + $750 off MSRP.

Just order the car, negotiate as much as you can and enjoy your BMW when it arrives.

You want to get the car ASAP and have fun driving the ultimate driving machine........

[martinf79]

Originally Posted by Maz335i

This definitely is not the case!

Unless the person I know, very very senior individual at BMW of Mississauga lied to me. I dont think he did, hence I'm going to keep my belief in that the dealers make 8% out of which they are willing to negotiate to a MAXIMUM of 7% off MSRP...you'll be EXTREMELY lucky to get anything more...7.5% is given very rarely and only to those who are repeat buyers.

I know several people who got 7% + $750 off MSRP and there were a few (very few) that got 7.5% + $750 off MSRP.

Just order the car, negotiate as much as you can and enjoy your BMW when it arrives.

You want to get the car ASAP and have fun driving the ultimate driving machine........

Thanks - whats the $750 off for?

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by martinf79

DO you know this for a fact (because this is what I've been led to believe as well). Everyone keeps saying that the dealer margin is 8% (even the CA's). No one would ever tell you what their actual cost is, as buyers would always want to come as close to it as possible), so you would always say its lower thn it actually is (its just common sense). If I made 10% on something, I would tell you I made 8%, so that even if we netted out at 7% off, I still make 3% and you feel as though you got a great deal (only paying 1% mark-up).

X Men - from what I understand, the dealer tacks on 8% ontop of true dealer cost (the few thousand you refer to above), and then another 10% for the sales incentives to get to MSRP. So, negotiating 8% off of the 10%, dealer + CA are still making quite a bit of money. Can you confirm this?

Look at the dealer's cost at truecar.com, the dealer's cost is about 9.5% off MSRP and thats not including other money they might get for meeting certain goals, but you will never get close to invoice price on the F30, maybe if you wait another year, invoice price is possible.

http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/bmw/3-series-pricing/

[Maz335i]

Originally Posted by martinf79

Thanks - whats the $750 off for?

It's the loyalty program. Only applies if you pick the car up before the 31st of July.

I'm quite casual with my dealer and know a lot of good guys at BMW of Mississauga; I was told (may be wrong) that the residuals may get worse for 2013.

He did promise me that at time of delivery if the residuals get better or there's a better deal, he'll give me that in cash!

You might want to verify this...

[martinf79]

Originally Posted by Maz335i

It's the loyalty program. Only applies if you pick the car up before the 31st of July.

I'm quite casual with my dealer and know a lot of good guys at BMW of Mississauga; I was told (may be wrong) that the residuals may get worse for 2013.

He did promise me that at time of delivery if the residuals get better or there's a better deal, he'll give me that in cash!

You might want to verify this...

Loyalty program for repeat leases? I am plannin gon paying for my car in cash, so assuming this would not apply?

[soopra]

I'm getting my car for invoice so the dealer must be paying less than invoice for the car. I'm located in BMW land (aka California) so maybe the competition out here is tough and dealers live off smaller margins...

[Bmwny2015]

When u go in for service to other BMW dealers they won't give u a loaner car if u didn't buy thr car from them

[bosz]

the $750 was a special for any f30 ordered in May.

the loyalty credit is $1000 and applies if you purchased or financed a bmw previously. so some ppl like myself got both so another $1750 on top of 7% off!!

[Maz335i]

Originally Posted by bosz

the $750 was a special for any f30 ordered in May.

the loyalty credit is $1000 and applies if you purchased or financed a bmw previously. so some ppl like myself got both so another $1750 on top of 7% off!!

...and many got even more...

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Ahmadhosmanbmw335i

When u go in for service to other BMW dealers they won't give u a loaner car if u didn't buy thr car from them

Not always true. I bought my car in California and still get a free loaner here in Texas.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Not always true. I bought my car in California and still get a free loaner here in Texas.

Same here. in fact, most of the time, its not true. The service dept will try to get your business anyway they can.

[martinf79]

What about going straight to a sales manager w/ a 8% off offer? Are you usually better off doing that?

[lbahoshy]

Originally Posted by martinf79

What about going straight to a sales manager w/ a 8% off offer? Are you usually better off doing that?

Don't think they'll let you do that. They won't screw over their own sales staff.