[Chicks-Love-Bimmers]

Anyone ever raced a Terminator (Mustang cobra 03)? I'm wondering how well we'd do against one fully modded vs fully modded. Also anyone know how well we would do with a Saleen Mustang? Just curious, not looking to race any anytime soon, but I hear those cars have such fantastic engines so I'm curious to see how well we would do against one.

[hemi to e90]

if its stock, youll take him

if there are any mods to it, you wont.

[GeorgiaTech335coupe]

I've seen a few 600whp Terminator Cobras.

It really depends on the work they have done. And Saleen Mustangs are all over the place. I've seen a "Saleen" mustang that was a basic GT with a body kit.

[mattdufrene]

Also depends on year (of both cars) and if your racing in a straight line or not.

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by mattdufrene

Also depends on year (of both cars) and if your racing in a straight line or not.

The Terminator Mustang was 2003-2004. We'll say the N54 motor for the 335 since that's getting more power right now (we're also in the N54 section of the forum).

• Stock 4.6L Cobra - Rated at 390 HP/390 TQ
• Kenne Bell S/C 4.6L Cobra - 660+ WHP/~700 WTQ

FBO 335 vs Stock Cobra -- Be close, advantage goes to 335. FBO vs FBO -- We'd get our doors blown off.

In case you think those numbers are take it up with KB

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/SC_pg...s/cobra4.6.htm

[Lulz_M3]

Originally Posted by mattdufrene

Also depends on year (of both cars) and if your racing in a straight line or not.

You sir, must be one hell of a fan of the 2012 335i coupe.

[benzy89]

Edit The KB S/C kit is capable of 700 HP/740 TQ with just a performance tune, intake & modifying the OEM Ignition System + Fuel Pump. No aftermarket exhaust, headers, throttle bodies, fuel systems, MAF sensors, etc.

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Commo...NOUNCEMENT.pdf

[coolcobramatt]

Owned three terminators and an 06 Saleen s/c. Stock, Kenne Bell, and ported/mildly modded. RWHP from stock 360 (don't let that "rated" 390 fool you, that's crank and it's actually pushing closer to 425 on average) will still be a tough race for a highly modded 335 as the torque still is a monster and the car hooks well bone stock with the IRS rear. A ported and modded terminator will beat a highly modded 335i with equal drivers. A KB Cobra (if it hooks) will walk away from it as well as a comparable M3 (yes the V8 version even with a s/c). The Saleen, if supercharged, would be a heads up race with a modded 335i but my guess is the 335i has an edge, as my 06 was pullied and had a full exhaust/tune, but still was kind of sluggish compared to my terminators.

In the end, if you can't drive the car, the better driver will win.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

I ended up racing a 03 cobra basic bolt ons and pulley (stock blower). Blew his doors off. Not sure what a terminator has.

At that time I had PROcede, DCI, methanol.

Without knowing the exact power or mods its hard to say. The power they make ranges a lot.

[coolcobramatt]

Originally Posted by benzy89

Edit The KB S/C kit is capable of 700 HP/740 TQ with just a performance tune, intake & modifying the OEM Ignition System + Fuel Pump. No aftermarket exhaust, headers, throttle bodies, fuel systems, MAF sensors, etc.

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Commo...NOUNCEMENT.pdf

PS..700 at the wheels still requires an upgraded fuel pump, throttle body and larger MAF, as well as larger fuel injectors and a true dyno tune. I am surprised KB posted this as it's common knowledge this simply isn't true.

With the terminators, when you get to the 500 rwhp mark, you are pushing the max with your stock MAF and injectors. A race clutch is also a highly recommended upgrade as the stock one can (and will) grenade at the 500 tq mark. 700 at the wheels usually calls for a turbo upgrade too, but can be done with the Mammoth blower. Most go turbo at that level though. No one uses a stock exhaust on a modded cobra, that's a mystery too. 6 cats makes it highly restrictive.

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by coolcobramatt

PS..700 at the wheels still requires an upgraded fuel pump, throttle body and larger MAF, as well as larger fuel injectors and a true dyno tune. I am surprised KB posted this as it's common knowledge this simply isn't true.

With the terminators, when you get to the 500 rwhp mark, you are pushing the max with your stock MAF and injectors. A race clutch is also a highly recommended upgrade as the stock one can (and will) grenade at the 500 tq mark. 700 at the wheels usually calls for a turbo upgrade too, but can be done with the Mammoth blower. Most go turbo at that level though. No one uses a stock exhaust on a modded cobra, that's a mystery too. 6 cats makes it highly restrictive.

This is straight out of the article that you didn't read

Kenne Bell to hit 700 RWHP without nitrous... hit 700.5 horsepower and a whopping 737 ft lbs of torque. That car was completely stock except for a Kenne Bell 2.4L supercharger at 20 psi, Cool Air Kit, Boost-a-Pump, Boost-a-Spark, and Switch Chip. It made all that power through the stock exhaust, cats and manifold (no headers), stock MAF, throttle body, pumps, injectors and fuel rails.

The Boost-a-_____ upgrade is basically an electronic upgrade that increases the output of the stock fuel pump + ignition system.

[rader1]

A FBO N54 will walk a stock terminator. With mods a terminator can be an absolute fucking monster that would walk even the Vishnu single turbo car. The range is huge and its hard to say without knowing specifics

[coolcobramatt]

Originally Posted by benzy89

This is straight out of the article that you didn't read



The Boost-a-_____ upgrade is basically an electronic upgrade that increases the output of the stock fuel pump + ignition system.

Didn't have to read brother, I trust you. My reply, which you must not have read (or failed to comprehend) stated very clearly I didn't see why KB posted that in the first place. Pushing that much boost isn't the 2.4's forte and just for the record the 2.4 is an OLD blower. It may have pushed alot of power through the stock system but it didn't for long. Forged internals are in the terminator but it can still go boom.

I had a boost a pump, and yes it "upgrades" the fuel pump but is more of a band aid than a real upgrade. It does work but a transition to a larger fuel pump (or twin pumps) is the best way to protect the engine. I also had the KB 2.2, a smaller blower (the one that has the crazy loud whine...google "snake bite 2003" for reference) and it required all the upgrades per my KB owner's manual. 2.4 is a little larger and it needs the same improvements. Had one but traded it fast.

I've owned them all, not trying to argue with you, just stating from personal experience, which you may or may not have.

[E90Company]

If modded, you will lose.

[ragingpanda]

2003-2004 Cobras are one of the few Mustangs I would drive to this day aside from the new 5.0's and GT500s.

[rader1]

Originally Posted by coolcobramatt

Didn't have to read brother, I trust you. My reply, which you must not have read (or failed to comprehend) stated very clearly I didn't see why KB posted that in the first place. Pushing that much boost isn't the 2.4's forte and just for the record the 2.4 is an OLD blower. It may have pushed alot of power through the stock system but it didn't for long. Forged internals are in the terminator but it can still go boom.

I had a boost a pump, and yes it "upgrades" the fuel pump but is more of a band aid than a real upgrade. It does work but a transition to a larger fuel pump (or twin pumps) is the best way to protect the engine. I also had the KB 2.2, a smaller blower (the one that has the crazy loud whine...google "snake bite 2003" for reference) and it required all the upgrades per my KB owner's manual. 2.4 is a little larger and it needs the same improvements. Had one but traded it fast.

I've owned them all, not trying to argue with you, just stating from personal experience, which you may or may not have.

My buddy has an 03 cobra with a 2.3 Whipple + supporting mods. It made right at 620whp on a dynojet. At this point the return less fuel system is becoming a problem.

[AU335i]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

I ended up racing a 03 cobra basic bolt ons and pulley (stock blower). Blew his doors off. Not sure what a terminator has.

I always thought "Terminator" was just the nickname given to any 03-04 Cobra?

[Brian@bavarianx]

Cobras are pretty much drag queens. Like everyone has been saying here, FBO 335i will take on a stock Cobra. However, if it's a modded Terminator especially with a Kenne Bell, good luck on trying to catch one.

[benzy89]

Originally Posted by coolcobramatt

Forged internals are in the terminator but it can still go boom.

I had a boost a pump, and yes it "upgrades" the fuel pump but is more of a band aid than a real upgrade. It does work but a transition to a larger fuel pump (or twin pumps) is the best way to protect the engine. I also had the KB 2.2, a smaller blower (the one that has the crazy loud whine...google "snake bite 2003" for reference) and it required all the upgrades per my KB owner's manual. 2.4 is a little larger and it needs the same improvements. Had one but traded it fast.

Boom can happen on any engine when you start seriously upping the power like that, like 2x the power. And we weren't discussing the reliability factor, just who would win. If I was to do a serious mod like a KB S/C, I'd make sure I had all the necessary supporting mods to make sure my car didn't end up on the back of a tow truck after a couple of highway pulls.

I know EXACTLY which video you're talking about it. The sound of that engine + the whine of the S/C is incredible (especially right in the beginning when the driver smokes the tires), but American Muscle for a DD isn't my cup of tea.

Originally Posted by Lawrence@bavarianx

Cobras are pretty much drag queens. Like everyone has been saying here, FBO 335i will take on a stock Cobra. However, if it's a modded Terminator especially with a Kenne Bell, good luck on trying to catch one.

What about a KB S/C on a M3??? That'd be a weapons grade car.

[nitehawk]

What about handling in the twisties? Id like to think we would have the advantage there even in stock form...

[son_of_siggy]

Originally Posted by nitehawk

What about handling in the twisties? Id like to think we would have the advantage there even in stock form...

Probably against the Stock Cobra. The Saleen, I would think depends upon the generation/year. We have an 06 S/C with the racecraft suspension they came with. Not the best by any means, but it does hug a road pretty well. But I'm not really a good enough, or brave enough driver to really test it out.

[coolcobramatt]

Originally Posted by benzy89

Boom can happen on any engine when you start seriously upping the power like that, like 2x the power. And we weren't discussing the reliability factor, just who would win.

No you are right on one front, THEY weren't discussing reliability, but I was. Kenne Bell has it's nut huggers and it's detractors, just like some vendors in the Bimmer world. Man that seems universal regardless of make and model! KB told me my 2.2 wouldn't run excessively hot but the paint under my hood turning white told me otherwise. That was mystichrome paint, which costs an arm, a leg and a left gonad, damage to the car and the pocketbook lol.

On a serious note, I think it's not good for a vendor to advertise modding your car without properly posting how long that motor will last without the necessary supporting mods.

And to the poster above, you are right, terminator was the Ford "in house" code name for the 03 Cobra pre-production, which stuck once the car was introduced.