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      04-02-2012, 09:16 PM   #1
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Track Pad help people

I need advice from all you track guys. This may be a little wordy but bare with me. A little history first. Before the M Coupe I had an 88 E30 M3 with a 2.5 engine, ground control coilovers and camber plates, 700/550 springs, track tirees and wheels (R888 tires), Stainless steel brake lines, RBF 600 brake fluid, full race seats and 4 point harness in both seats, ClutchMaster Stage 4 clutch and pressure plate, and lightweight flywheel. As you can see the car was barely a driveable street daily driver car. The car was AWESOME on the track though. I used Hawk HT-10 pads and really liked them for the initial bite, but this was a momentum car with 220hp at the wheels.

Now the question, without a doubt I am taking the M Coupe to the track! BUT I know how hard the HT-10's are on rotors, so those are out on the Coupe. The thought of replacing rotors after every track day is NOT my idea of a fun weekend. I have read about several different pads and have narrowed them down to 2. Performance Friction 06 and Carbotech xp8 and xp10. I nned advice and your personal references about the pads.

I am a BMW certified instuctor and run in the advance run group. All braking is done before turn-in as much as possible. I still beleive in using momentum than point and squirt techniques. I want a solid initial bite and great brake control with the pads.

Give me what you got guys and thanks for the help already.
Steve
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      04-02-2012, 09:22 PM   #2
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Take a look here starting post 95: Hawk DTC-60s for track, HPS for street. Another good thread here too.

Not my recommendations, but good places to start with other track rats and instructors offering opinions for our cars, discussion of PF-06, DTC-60, and others.

Last edited by Finnegan; 04-02-2012 at 09:35 PM..
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      04-03-2012, 01:56 PM   #3
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StopTech Street Performance - Just purchased my second set. $122 front and rear at Tirerack.
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      04-04-2012, 12:11 AM   #4
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I use Ferodo DS2500 but they don't seem to last (4~5 trackdays). I have heard only great reviews on PFC stuffs. I will try out PFC01 or PFC06 next time.
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      04-04-2012, 07:19 AM   #5
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You won't be disappointed in the PFC's, I've run both 06 and 01s. Both have great initial bite after heating up. I ran a set of 06's for five full track days and would estimate 35% pad wear remaining on OEM rotors. I swap rotors and pads before hitting the track.
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      04-04-2012, 08:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasZed4MC View Post
I need advice from all you track guys. This may be a little wordy but bare with me. A little history first. Before the M Coupe I had an 88 E30 M3 with a 2.5 engine, ground control coilovers and camber plates, 700/550 springs, track tirees and wheels (R888 tires), Stainless steel brake lines, RBF 600 brake fluid, full race seats and 4 point harness in both seats, ClutchMaster Stage 4 clutch and pressure plate, and lightweight flywheel. As you can see the car was barely a driveable street daily driver car. The car was AWESOME on the track though. I used Hawk HT-10 pads and really liked them for the initial bite, but this was a momentum car with 220hp at the wheels.

Now the question, without a doubt I am taking the M Coupe to the track! BUT I know how hard the HT-10's are on rotors, so those are out on the Coupe. The thought of replacing rotors after every track day is NOT my idea of a fun weekend. I have read about several different pads and have narrowed them down to 2. Performance Friction 06 and Carbotech xp8 and xp10. I nned advice and your personal references about the pads.

I am a BMW certified instuctor and run in the advance run group. All braking is done before turn-in as much as possible. I still beleive in using momentum than point and squirt techniques. I want a solid initial bite and great brake control with the pads.

Give me what you got guys and thanks for the help already.
Steve
Carbotech hands down!

Dust washes off with a garden hose and they have insane stopping power while being easy on rotors. What more can you ask for?
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      04-09-2012, 06:48 AM   #7
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I ran ht10's om my coupe many track days without needing to replace my rotors. I really liked them. I liked the carbotech a lot too. Less initial bite, but less fade due to temp. Felt more consistent. P.s. I do about two events a year, not an expert, typically I'm in the b group...
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      04-09-2012, 07:20 AM   #8
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I've run a lot of Hawks, and recently switched to the PFC 08 as have many of my friends. Very similar to the 06s, very good pedal feel and they last quite a bit. Most of the GT3s I know running them run them down to the backing plates and they're consistent all the way through . So far seem to be good for 5-6 days at brake dependent tracks down here (Sebring, Daytona, etc). Typically a set of friction discs will last through 2-3 sets of pads so they're not too bad on rotors either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddyshk View Post
StopTech Street Performance - Just purchased my second set. $122 front and rear at Tirerack.
You obviously don't track your car, while great for the street, these would last the average advanced driver about 2 days if that.
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      04-09-2012, 07:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onelove View Post
I've run a lot of Hawks, and recently switched to the PFC 08 as have many of my friends. Very similar to the 06s, very good pedal feel and they last quite a bit. Most of the GT3s I know running them run them down to the backing plates and they're consistent all the way through . So far seem to be good for 5-6 days at brake dependent tracks down here (Sebring, Daytona, etc). Typically a set of friction discs will last through 2-3 sets of pads so they're not too bad on rotors either.




You obviously don't track your car, while great for the street, these would last the average advanced driver about 2 days if that.
Not advanced, however I'm getting good use out of these. My current set has ~ 60 laps at Shannonville and 75 at Mosport. Inspected them on the weekend and they're good for a couple more events. This is the same material StopTech includes with their BBK's. I suspect a few folks have tracked with this setup...
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      04-09-2012, 10:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caddyshk View Post
Not advanced, however I'm getting good use out of these. My current set has ~ 60 laps at Shannonville and 75 at Mosport. Inspected them on the weekend and they're good for a couple more events. This is the same material StopTech includes with their BBK's. I suspect a few folks have tracked with this setup...
I suspect you're also using regular street tires. This is a street pad that can be used at the track, it doesn't have any of the stopping characteristics of a good track pad and requires being "easy" on the brakes to make them live. A few laps on a sticky tire with a proper pad setup will make you realize the difference between a street pad and a track pad as the poster originally requested. Stoptech originally used Axxis ultimate pads with their kits but started including these when they were purchased by Centric.
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      04-09-2012, 05:20 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onelove View Post
I suspect you're also using regular street tires. This is a street pad that can be used at the track, it doesn't have any of the stopping characteristics of a good track pad and requires being "easy" on the brakes to make them live. A few laps on a sticky tire with a proper pad setup will make you realize the difference between a street pad and a track pad as the poster originally requested. Stoptech originally used Axxis ultimate pads with their kits but started including these when they were purchased by Centric.
Direzza Star Specs and RS-3's. I agree with all you're saying. I was just offering an option to the OP - these pads are very good on rotors. The Carbotech XP8's I ran on my 330 in my view performed to the same levels of the Stoptech.
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      04-09-2012, 11:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
I need advice from all you track guys. This may be a little wordy but bare with me. A little history first. Before the M Coupe I had an 88 E30 M3 with a 2.5 engine, ground control coilovers and camber plates, 700/550 springs, track tirees and wheels (R888 tires), Stainless steel brake lines, RBF 600 brake fluid, full race seats and 4 point harness in both seats, ClutchMaster Stage 4 clutch and pressure plate, and lightweight flywheel. As you can see the car was barely a driveable street daily driver car. The car was AWESOME on the track though. I used Hawk HT-10 pads and really liked them for the initial bite, but this was a momentum car with 220hp at the wheels.
Sounds like my track car. Aka Temple on s14.net
I don't think I can help much, I run ht-10's and recently installed the PFC01, which are amazing.
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      04-10-2012, 06:18 AM   #13
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ordered a set of XP9's all the way around the car last week. Figure I can start there and see how those work for me.
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      04-10-2012, 08:23 AM   #14
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how many days do you guys get out of your track pads? I typically get 3-5 track days (4 30 minute sessions per day) when using HT10's or the carbotech's. is that common?
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      04-10-2012, 10:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwank View Post
how many days do you guys get out of your track pads? I typically get 3-5 track days (4 30 minute sessions per day) when using HT10's or the carbotech's. is that common?
That's a tough one to answer, since just about everyone drives differently and uses different equipment.

For me, on my relatively stock weight MZ4 Coupe with NT-01s (mostly), I can get a set of track pads (Cobalt XR3) to last 2 years (that's ~14 events, around 24 track days driving 2-3 25 minute sessions each day) or 6 months (E46 323Ci, Bridgestone S-03s, Carbotech Panther Plus, 4 events, 8 days) depending on what I'm doing with the brakes and which track I'm going to. HUGE variables here.

Just strictly from my observation, I seem to wear through pads much quicker as an intermediate to advanced intermediate driver. Once I got to advanced the brake wear slows down after I figured out how to maximize the braking while minimizing the time on brakes...Which also extends the life of the pads. Then after I was made instructor my speed continues to pick up and the brake pad wear accelerated again briefly, until I got RacingBrake rotors installed and the brake wear slowed down again. Now, I can wear down a set of pads in 3 track days, or I can make it last 2 years. It all depends on how much I want to push the car (for DE purpose, not much).

Driving style > weight of vehicle > power of vehicle > brake cooling all affect pad wear to a certain extent.
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      04-10-2012, 11:37 AM   #16
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I've had 5 days on my PFC 06's so far and they still look new...
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      04-10-2012, 10:57 PM   #17
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Quote:
how many days do you guys get out of your track pads? I typically get 3-5 track days (4 30 minute sessions per day) when using HT10's or the carbotech's. is that common?
HT10's on and e30m3 track car, I get 16 track days and 5,000 miles on the HT-10 fronts and probably 20 days for therears.

3-5 track days is crazy. Are you dragging your brakes. You will be faster if you brake less!
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      04-11-2012, 04:41 AM   #18
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I used PF01 for 5 years on my E46 M3 and they were great. Love the initial bite.

I usually just buy one set of pads for the summer. I was doing 12-15 events with them. I never been too hard on the brake compare with friends with similar cars/setup.

Brake cooling ducts might also help to reduce wear on those pads.

IMO go with PF01 or PF08
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      04-18-2012, 01:13 PM   #19
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My first season on track with the Z4M was spent running a Ferodo DS3000/DS2500 setup front/rear. It was OK... sort of expensive for the performance but very easily modulated with a bit too little initial bite and fade resistance. The following season I stepped up to Hawk HT-10's front/rear. I was impressed so I ran them last season, as well. They are easily modulated, moreso than the PFC01's I ran for one day in my old car, and not too hard on the rotors. They do tend to deteriorate as you get past the 50% mark but this has apparently been addressed with the DTC-60's.

So, you guessed it, I'm going to be running DTC-60's this season. I wish I could try the PFC08's but I have been unsuccessful in trying to find a shop that has them in stock. I'll snag a set if I can find 'em and probably swap between those at the Hawks just to get a feel for their differences.
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      04-18-2012, 01:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
My first season on track with the Z4M was spent running a Ferodo DS3000/DS2500 setup front/rear. It was OK... sort of expensive for the performance but very easily modulated with a bit too little initial bite and fade resistance. The following season I stepped up to Hawk HT-10's front/rear. I was impressed so I ran them last season, as well. They are easily modulated, moreso than the PFC01's I ran for one day in my old car, and not too hard on the rotors. They do tend to deteriorate as you get past the 50% mark but this has apparently been addressed with the DTC-60's.

So, you guessed it, I'm going to be running DTC-60's this season. I wish I could try the PFC08's but I have been unsuccessful in trying to find a shop that has them in stock. I'll snag a set if I can find 'em and probably swap between those at the Hawks just to get a feel for their differences.
Have you checked OGracing?
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      04-18-2012, 09:01 PM   #21
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Picked up some pfc08s for the rears from bimmerworld though I don't know who has them for the fronts. Still running pfc06s up front....
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      04-18-2012, 09:20 PM   #22
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For someone that's going to be hitting the track once this year (later in August).

Would changing fluid and just running stock pads be sufficient? I realize I need to get a pad as well that I can DD, Auto-X and Track for as well...which is basically impossible.
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