[chbrules]

Anyone know where I could get free legal traffic advice in southern California? I have a court date next Monday to fight a highway ticket. No, it's not a speeding ticket. Maybe I should explain myself and see if anyone has any advice. Here's how the story goes:

I was washing my 325i and I liked to air dry it, so I usually would take the car out for a run on a local highway loop to get it dried off. Well, one fateful day it was getting closer to rush hour time, I believe it was a little before 4pm, and the onramp meter light was on. Well, like a jerk I passed up a couple cars waiting at the light in the HOV lane and there just so happened to be a highway patrol guy up over the hill part to get on the freeway after the light.

The key point where I may have a loophole, if he does show up, is that he was behind his cruiser on the shoulder facing away from the onramp traffic doing something on his trunk. He just so happened to hear my engine rev'ing loud and turned around at the last second. He acted so fast he nearly jumped in front of my car and waved me down. I pulled up ahead of him and he politely told me he was giving me a ticket for riding solo in the HOV lane. I didn't argue and just took the ticket and went.

I think in my defense I could have 2 methods of attack to go by. #1, don't incriminate myself and plead the 5th about how I entered the freeway, but bring up the fact that his back was turned as he was fiddling with something on his trunk at the time, so he didn't have a clear picture of what was going on and assumed. Is it illegal to claim that I have a fast car and floored it which was the only reason he probably got on my case? I know there are some wreckless driving laws about flooring it in CA regardless of speed.

My second method of attack would be that he could not prove the traffic situation at the onramp light and I could incriminate myself to running a red instead for a lesser fine (I don't know if running a red is less than solo in HOV lane). This was back on feb 1st, so it was a while ago, not to mention no evidence on his part.

I realize what I did was pretty jerky, I've stopped at every onramp light since. I've even begun actually obeying the no u-turn signs and not trying to make yellow lights. I've actually saved myself a couple times by being a more careful driver. But I really would rather not have to pay a fine and get points on my license because of this little incident. It was just a neighborhood onramp by my house, not some big city deal where I passed up a congestion of cars or something.

Anyone have any advice? Thanks.

[RaptorKTM]

no such thing as free law advice my friend. But reading what u wrote it seems like ur saying the ticket is wrong yet claiming guilt to something else. I mean they are all moving violations. And to me it seems like you should go for the back turned thing rather then saying u didn't want to stop and ran the light. Just say that there was something occurring at the light that for safety reasons caused you to swerve around the tire screeching and the engine rev is what caught his last minute attention and the office had no previous view of what was going on as right before you past him his back was still turned until the last second.

[wj4]

http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...&topic=10663.0

Great read and helped out a bunch of other folks.

[RaptorKTM]

actually that was very interesting props on that link

[chbrules]

That was a good link, but my trial is already scheduled on this coming Monday at 8am downtown. Too late for a TBD, though I will keep that in mind for future use in case this 335i gets a little wild and decides to get me some speeding tickets.

The strange thing is that I never had to pay any bail and the citation doesn't have any fine dollar amount on it.

[chbrules]

I just found the paperwork for all the steps I had to go through. 8:30am this monday downtown. Apparently they sent me a bail notice of $361, but since I requested a court date I didn't pay it if I remember correctly. I hope so because the due date was April 2nd for the money. Last thing I need is a warrant for my arrest.

[jfulcher]

If it's an HOV ticket it's no points. Just pay the ticket..

[sambonator]

I'd just request traffic school.
If you try to fight it, traffic school may not be an option anymore.

[chbrules]

Originally Posted by jfulcher

If it's an HOV ticket it's no points. Just pay the ticket..

Can I get a validation on this?

Originally Posted by sambonator

I'd just request traffic school.
If you try to fight it, traffic school may not be an option anymore.

I think I still may be able to do traffic school regardless unless the judge specifically states otherwise, which I doubt.


This is all if the guy shows. I heard from friends that CHP in cruisers don't show half the time, as opposed to the bike cops who do like 100% of the time. Don't know about that, but I'm going to be prepared with an argument regardless.

[e92sam]

if he didn't write you up for running a red light on the onramp, and just for using the carpool lane on the onramp: just say you thought it was a double lane onramp and when your light turned green you took your turn. It wasnt until the cop flagged you down and talked to you that you realized it wasnt a regular 2 lane onramp (not all multi-lane onramps have dedicated carpool lanes). say you are sorry and wont let it happen again; you were paying too much attention to the traffic light and didnt realize there was a diamond painted on the ground.

I'm from Southern Ca. and if you cheated in a carpool lane on an onramp, and ran a red light then I hope I see you in an orange jumpsuit picking up trash along the freeway (but hope you get out of the $300+ fine; price of gas these days sucks!)

[DasBlitz]

I'm just waiting for the whole "Don't whine, be a man and pay the fine" crew.

[Maestro]

You're on the right path, do not say anything about what you were doing. The police officer has to prove he saw what he gave you the ticket for. He assumed you were in the HOV lane even thought you broke another law, but he has no way of really knowing you jump the metering light either since he could not see when light changed.

Well, he could have known you jumped the light but gave you the HOV ticket since it more expensive ticket, keep that in mind.

Most likely, he will not remember what exactly he was doing at the time since it was so long ago unless he made notes on the back of ticket, which you might want to see before making your case. However, if you can get him to admit that you did not see you the entire time and only saw you after turning around then you can argue he had no ideal what lane you were in.

Just remember do not ask Yes and No question, make the office explain what we did and saw exactly.

Ask questions like, please explain how you knew what lane I was in and how you determined I was in the HOV lane.

Good Luck!

[PMP]

Unless you have a picture of him with his back turned I seriously doubt you are going to get points for that. He'll just say he was looking right at you. Cops usually get the benefit of the doubt.

[Maestro]

Originally Posted by PMP

Unless you have a picture of him with his back turned I seriously doubt you are going to get points for that. He'll just say he was looking right at you. Cops usually get the benefit of the doubt.

This is true, especially if you ask them the wrong questions.

The idea is to get the cop to recall as much as he can, and most likely they will have a hard time remember the facts except what he writes on the back of the ticket. Many times they do not write much unless you give them a reason too.

Get him to recall exactly what he was doing before he ever observed you, he might said that he just finished giving someone else a ticket and was writing a report on the back of his trunk. The idea is to lay your foundation before asking the real question you need him to answer. If you lead off with were you looking at me when I existed the ramp, most likely the answer will be yes, not that he would lie, but his recall will be bad and the simple and obvious answer will be yes.

go to this website there is lots of good advise here

http://www.radardetector.net/

Also, know the laws

http://public.findlaw.com/traffic-ticket-violation-law/

[bartman32]

Originally Posted by sambonator

I'd just request traffic school.
If you try to fight it, traffic school may not be an option anymore.

+1 I believe this to be true. My suggestion is pay the fine for traffic school and get it over with. When you do traffic school you don't get points anyway.

[longtran]

i dont think you get points for driving in a HOV lane. my fiancee was pulled over one time on the 5 south. she was late for work. the officer said it will not be a moving violation. its just a fine.

[SoYank]

Originally Posted by chbrules

Anyone have any advice? Thanks.

Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

[shragon]

it's true, you don't get any points for a ticket in the HOV lane since it's not considered a moving violation.

so just show up to court. if the cop does't show, then cool. if he does, just pay the fine and be on your way.

[pacman]

you should check out the "cop-talk" thread on e46fanatics.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=350102

these guys give some pretty good advice... i m sure u can post on there and get a cop to reply to it....

we should have one of these threads on e90post too... i m sure we have a cpl of cops amongst us

[chbrules]

I did a little bit of research and it turns out that you can only cite someone in an HOV lane during rush hour periods/hours of operation. My ticket says 4:33 on it, not am or pm. That's a bit of a loophole there, but not a convincing one. On top of that, he has to have proof that at 4:33 the onramp's traffic control light was on. He also has to prove that he knew I came up the HOV lane, considering his back was turned until he heard my rev'ing engine approaching and flagged me down.

I'm trying the e46fanatics' site, but I'm not allowed to post yet. Stupid system they have setup there.

[shragon]

i thought in socal all the HOV's are 24/7?

in the bay area, our HOV's mostly have times on them. however, majority of the HOV's on on-ramps do not. from what i've read in the past, if there are no times stated, it means it's 24/7.

[chbrules]

The CA handbook states:

"Signs at the onramp or along the
freeway tell you the minimum
number of people required for
the carpool and the hours the
carpool requirement applies. The
pavement in this lane is marked
with a diamond symbol ( ) and the
words “Carpool Lane.” These lanes
are also known as high-occupancy
vehicle (HOV) lanes. Do not cross
over double parallel solid lines to
enter or exit any carpool lane except
at designated entry or exit places."