[Twisted Six]

While I've admired the M divisions worx over the decades....I've never been a fan enough to purchase.

I've always enjoyed the lesser underdog powerplants due to them being so close to final 0-60 times-( comparo to 3.2 M).

I am curious as to why tuners/vendors have avoided to a great extent the S.I. N52 variant for Forced Induction ?

Is the S.I. controls more difficult to encode and re-tune for F.I. ?

IS it the variable Intakes ? Is it the base internals ?

I can't see a vendor saying there isn't enough market to invest R&D in....there are thousands of these engines begging for some Skunk-worx to be had.

Any vendors like to help here and explain ?

[jc5988]

i think supercharge or turbocharge kit wasnt too popular for e36 or e46 made those vendor think twice about developing any kit for N52.

only supercharge kit i heard is from Arma, but i think its 10k or more.

[RupertPupkin]

One word


VOLUME

Originally Posted by Dark Schnitzer

While I've admired the M divisions worx over the decades....I've never been a fan enough to purchase.

I've always enjoyed the lesser underdog powerplants due to them being so close to final 0-60 times-( comparo to 3.2 M).

I am curious as to why tuners/vendors have avoided to a great extent the S.I. N52 variant for Forced Induction ?

Is the S.I. controls more difficult to encode and re-tune for F.I. ?

IS it the variable Intakes ? Is it the base internals ?

I can't see a vendor saying there isn't enough market to invest R&D in....there are thousands of these engines begging for some Skunk-worx to be had.

Any vendors like to help here and explain ?

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by jimmydever

One word


VOLUME

While I have not researched the actual production numbers of the N52's built ....I was under the impression the 'VOLUME' of them would easily out number the M market, which gets so much aftermarket support.

Is this wrong ?

[VTECaddict]

M3 has no other motor option. The aftermarket has no choice but to develop FI for it. Same goes for previous generations. There were no FI motors so companies had to develop FI.

The non-M has the N54/N55. It goes to reason most people that will want to tune for power will start with the turbo motor as the base. Why reinvent the wheel? Why waste several grand to turbo/SC the N52 when with that same money you could have started with a 335i in the first place?

[mike-y]

The "M market" is also much more willing to spend lots of money on their cars, as they've already paid nearly twice as much as a base 328i.

Also, In the past, you couldn't get a bmw with forced induction. With the introduction of the 335i, BMW offers a 3 series with turbo power and a factory warranty, so it really puts a damper on the urge to develop a SC or turbo kit for the 325/328/330 when there is already a factory option for FI on the 3 series that has more potential than an aftermarket kit, especially when price is factored in.


EDIT, tree'd by VTECaddict

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

M3 has no other motor option. The aftermarket has no choice but to develop FI for it. Same goes for previous generations. There were no FI motors so companies had to develop FI.

The non-M has the N54/N55. It goes to reason most people that will want to tune for power will start with the turbo motor as the base. Why reinvent the wheel? Why waste several grand to turbo/SC the N52 when with that same money you could have started with a 335i in the first place?

If I was interested in the 335i platform aside from its turbos that I've bought....I would consider it. Its not my cup of tea. I want to work with the platform at hand if possible.

In this case, there were no F.I. options for the E85/86 Z4 or Z4M platform.

Fortunately for the M variant...SC's were pretty quickly developed and sold successfully. Predominately due to this being a repeat engine from the previous M3. Just re-packaged.

Reinventing the wheel is not what the target is here. It is to turbo charge an existing power-plant .

Back to the question, any vendors/tuners out there know the N52 ECU/DME's enough to look into the proper steps to do a boosted tune ?

Or is this going to have to be a piggy-backed MegaSquirt or other fuel/boost controlled effort ?

[darkrom]

Honestly its just not going to happen. We can shoot the shit on how you'd tune it and what not, but it doesn't matter. You wanna spend like $20k on a 328?

[E90 Skye]

Originally Posted by darkrom

Honestly its just not going to happen. We can shoot the shit on how you'd tune it and what not, but it doesn't matter. You wanna spend like $20k on a 328?

this.

there are too few people who would actually do this. spending 10 to 15k on an m3 is different bc an m3 is built for a specific purpose. plus if you can afford an m3 you can probably afford to put in 10-15k on extra stuff.

Sure there is a huge volume of N52 equiped cars. but have you looked at who typically drives an N52 equipped bmw? if its a 328 the majority of them are just everyday folks that are not interested in increased performance or anything. more than half the people i know that have bimmers (that i met outside of this forum) don't know jack about why their 3 series or 5, or x5, is different from a lexus. they don't really care either, they just want the bmw name so they can cruise their kids to soccer practice, go grocery shopping etc. that is the majority.
hence even though there is a huge volume of n52 owners, there is a very tiny percent that would think to spend 15k upgrading performance. and even those people find it much easier/more reliable/cheaper to just trade in their 328 or 325 for a 335.
If I wanted to seriously increase the power of my car, i'd just trade it in for a 335 and tune it.

I think thats the best thing for you to consider for reliability purposes. It would be cool to have a S/C 328 but i think you're saving yourself a huge headache by sticking to factory FI.

either way, Good luck to you!

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by VTECaddict

M3 has no other motor option. The aftermarket has no choice but to develop FI for it. Same goes for previous generations. There were no FI motors so companies had to develop FI.

There were no OEM BMW FI engines when I bought this E86 w/N52 either....I'm not sure this point apply's since I'm not in the market for another car.

The non-M has the N54/N55. It goes to reason most people that will want to tune for power will start with the turbo motor as the base. Why reinvent the wheel? Why waste several grand to turbo/SC the N52 when with that same money you could have started with a 335i in the first place?

Re-inventing the wheel ? I'm simply attempting to FI a engine, not a scratch built drive-train here. I've turbo charged every vehicle I've owned since I was 16- (49 now). I enjoy the fab and work.

Originally Posted by mike-y

The "M market" is also much more willing to spend lots of money on their cars, as they've already paid nearly twice as much as a base 328i.

Also, In the past, you couldn't get a bmw with forced induction. With the introduction of the 335i, BMW offers a 3 series with turbo power and a factory warranty, so it really puts a damper on the urge to develop a SC or turbo kit for the 325/328/330 when there is already a factory option for FI on the 3 series that has more potential than an aftermarket kit, especially when price is factored in.


EDIT, tree'd by VTECaddict

A factory kit will never offer more potential than an aftermarket build if done right. Even a factory turbo engine can only handle a specific amount of mundane boost before it requires internal work/prep.

Originally Posted by darkrom

Honestly its just not going to happen. We can shoot the shit on how you'd tune it and what not, but it doesn't matter. You wanna spend like $20k on a 328?

Originally Posted by E90 Skye

this.

I don't wish for a 3-series,anymore than you want a Z4.

there are too few people who would actually do this. spending 10 to 15k on an m3 is different bc an m3 is built for a specific purpose. plus if you can afford an m3 you can probably afford to put in 10-15k on extra stuff.

Sure there is a huge volume of N52 equiped cars. but have you looked at who typically drives an N52 equipped bmw? if its a 328 the majority of them are just everyday folks that are not interested in increased performance or anything. more than half the people i know that have bimmers (that i met outside of this forum) don't know jack about why their 3 series or 5, or x5, is different from a lexus. they don't really care either, they just want the bmw name so they can cruise their kids to soccer practice, go grocery shopping etc. that is the majority.
hence even though there is a huge volume of n52 owners, there is a very tiny percent that would think to spend 15k upgrading performance. and even those people find it much easier/more reliable/cheaper to just trade in their 328 or 325 for a 335.
If I wanted to seriously increase the power of my car, i'd just trade it in for a 335 and tune it.

I think thats the best thing for you to consider for reliability purposes. It would be cool to have a S/C 328 but i think you're saving yourself a huge headache by sticking to factory FI.

either way, Good luck to you!

I get the feeling here no one has caught on that I do not own a 3-series.

Dark Skye....I certainly agree with most of your points. I certainly won't need to throw down 10-15 k since I do my own fab. The only arena I'll need back up in will be the controls for boost recognition,additional fuel mapping and increased spark. A warranty isn't my concern at all.Not to mention modding an OEM boosted car voids this anyway, as I've seen.

Looks like I'm going to be on my own. Nothing new , been there before. Time is the only enemy I fight to get things done or make decisions like this one.

[rdtx516]

to answer your question, based on responses from tuners i have contacted (including folks from the UK), "N52 owners just wont pony up the money for a tune" IF they are going to spend 100k on RnD they need buyers willing to pay. Just look at the comments on for sale parts. Hence, there's a tune out there that includes that can boost the N52 over 300hp. The tuners car is the only one thus far and I'm considering it so i can track it and leave the m3 in the garage. I found him researching on the web one evening and found his specs by accident (was removed shortly after i contacted him). hopefully to see something soon

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by Dark Schnitzer

A factory kit will never offer more potential than an aftermarket build if done right. Even a factory turbo engine can only handle a specific amount of mundane boost before it requires internal work/prep.

correct. but a factory 335i can easily put down close to 400whp with just a tune and a couple of bolt-on mods. Sure you can build a FI kit for your car, and rebuild it's motor to handle the same power and more, but the cost is going to be a lot more than trading up to something that has the turbo motor already.

This is why the aftermarket tuners are reluctant to develop something for the N52.

Looks like I'm going to be on my own. Nothing new , been there before. Time is the only enemy I fight to get things done or make decisions like this one.

It's not easy. I'd think your best bet for tuning is to skip the factory electronics altogether and go with a stand alone engine management system, like MoTec or AEM EMS.

good luck.

[Twisted Six]

Originally Posted by rdtx516

to answer your question, based on responses from tuners i have contacted (including folks from the UK), "N52 owners just wont pony up the money for a tune" IF they are going to spend 100k on RnD they need buyers willing to pay. Just look at the comments on for sale parts. Hence, there's a tune out there that includes that can boost the N52 over 300hp. The tuners car is the only one thus far and I'm considering it so i can track it and leave the m3 in the garage. I found him researching on the web one evening and found his specs by accident (was removed shortly after i contacted him). hopefully to see something soon

A 40hp tune gain is certainly good gains and I would think the N52 naturally aspirated folks would scoop this up if its sub 1k$. Even I would initially.

But I am after more HP than that..and a low boosted N52 -(say around 7lbs)...should produce near 385+hp. But without lower compression pistons...pre-detonation will be nearby all the time. So forged pistons will of course make a good start.

I'd assume the N54's have some form of forged internal OEM.

Originally Posted by mike-y

correct. but a factory 335i can easily put down close to 400whp with just a tune and a couple of bolt-on mods. Sure you can build a FI kit for your car, and rebuild it's motor to handle the same power and more, but the cost is going to be a lot more than trading up to something that has the turbo motor already.

This is why the aftermarket tuners are reluctant to develop something for the N52.

I disagree with this . Perhaps your correct if you can not do any of this work yourself. But the typical hard parts can be sourced/collected for thousands less than buying a complete car or engine swap if carefully approached and well thought out.

It's not easy. I'd think your best bet for tuning is to skip the factory electronics altogether and go with a stand alone engine management system, like MoTec or AEM EMS.

good luck.

I disagree with this . Perhaps your correct if you can not do any of this work yourself. But the typical hard parts can be sourced/collected for thousands less than buying a complete car or engine swap if carefully approached and well thought out.
Easy, no....your right. And if a vendor who does his own tuning will not step up, then stand-alone will prevail. Which is a shame ...because as these cars come into new hands who want to mod them and they can't do it themselves that opportunity is lost by lack of support.

Its not like we as N52 owners are entitled for support by aftermarket. So again...off to the drawing board.