[chiefsotos]

I had procede tune for 3 years now. I started with V4 then Rev2 V5 and today i have just installed the Rev3 unit with 7-29maps.
My car is a manual bmw e93 with catless dps and forge ic.

All these years whatever map i used to have, whenever i made a datalog the can actual ign adv never be stable. When it reached about 8-9 then sudently fall down to 5-6.
I thought with Rev3 and maps 7-29 the problem will be solved, since rev3 can manage more ign retard but this never happen.
The following datalog is with autotune start boost 15psi, autotune ign 50% and max boost set at 17.

It is 3d to 5th gear accelaration.



This is a 4th gear accelaration.



As you see with red circles the ign adv was dropping.
The strange thing is that autotune boost setting is climp up at 16.8psi and autotune ign correction is fault down from 50% at 0%

I made more than 10 pulls and only in one in the 5th gear the autotune ign correction climp up at 20% and after a 3d gear pull it fault again at 0%.
How is tis possible? I mean if the car retards shouldn't be the autotune boost and ign correction fall down?

Then i made a datalog of start boost 10psi and max autotune boost 12psi.



The same thing happens here.
Although i have ign retards(red circles) the autotune ign goes to 0% and autotune boost setting climps at max 12psi!

So how can that be happening???

All these years i have the same problem. Can actual ign advance never reach 10 and stay there.
I have allready change spark plugs and 3 injectors with recall before 500km.

Some more observations...
When i put start boost at 15psi and max autotuning boost at 15psi when i was on 4th gear wot the car at ~5000 went to limp mode with code 10738(something about high fuel pressure error).
I tried this 3 times all of them went on limp.
When i raized the max autotune boost again at 17psi no problem at all.

And something final, when i wot with high boost in 2d or 3d gear, if i sudently take off throttle at 3000-3500rpm(it is where it achieves max boost) the car makes a big bog! If i lift the throttle after 4000rpm very smooth reaction with no bog at all

[enrita]

You forgot to plot AFR . Use the data channels included in the maps . Fuel trims/AFR

[jpsimon]

what octane gas are you running?

[FedeM]

I'm pretty sure u're running aggression target@2.
Put it at one, reset autotune, and log them again.

BTW, little drops (like 2-3°) are not a problem, just simple ecu corrections (stock map does them too)... It could be a problem when actual ign adv drop 4-5° or more...


Edit: i've not read the second part... It could be the HPFP.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Plot AFR instead of road speed. You may have fueling issue that is pulling timing.

What other modifications do you have?
What is your octane?

Have you had your fuel pump or replaced or injectors?

[OpenFlash]

chiefsotos-- Drop the aggression target to 1 instead of the default of 2 which may be too aggressive in some applications. Given that you are seeing some retard activity at only 12psi (albeit with no ignition correction), I suspect that the fuel quality in Greece isn't what is is elsewhere in Europe. Not a big deal as we can adjust the map accordingly.

Perhaps a better thing to do until we determine the quality of your fuel is to disable tuning and just run Map1 (13psi, 100% IC) and log. If logs look stable, we can make things more aggressive. If you still see drop outs, then we can conclude that the fuel quality isn't up to standard. In which case, we can make things more conservative by reducing user boost.

Shiv

[chiefsotos]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

chiefsotos-- Drop the aggression target to 1 instead of the default of 2 which may be too aggressive in some applications. Given that you are seeing some retard activity at only 12psi (albeit with no ignition correction), I suspect that the fuel quality in Greece isn't what is is elsewhere in Europe. Not a big deal as we can adjust the map accordingly.

Perhaps a better thing to do until we determine the quality of your fuel is to disable tuning and just run Map1 (13psi, 100% IC) and log. If logs look stable, we can make things more aggressive. If you still see drop outs, then we can conclude that the fuel quality isn't up to standard. In which case, we can make things more conservative by reducing user boost.

Shiv

Tomorrow i will put up some more logs with more channels including AFR.
The fuel i use is from a good brand 100 octane and when some months ago i put 95octan fuel, the autotuning boost fall down immediatly from 16.8psi at ~14psi.
I suppose that the fuel is good because the autotuning boost and IC doesn't fall!
Maybe because i am 200kilos heavier from E92 coupes the ecu can't have the same efficient?
This afternoon i raced a M3 E92 DCT with full acrapovic exhaust.
I tried with autotune 16.8psi and IC=0 and loose about 2 cars.
Then i disable autotune and drop the the boost at 14.5psi and Ic=0 and i loose about 5 cars.
I also datalog these two races, but didn't see the graphs yet. Tomorrow i wil upload the datalogs to see how the can actual ign advance was.

Although i have knock retards with autotuning on and max boost at 17psi i have more power. I wish i can hold more stable the ign advance!!!

[jpsimon]

you definitely shouldn't be running 17psi with the few mods you have...

[chiefsotos]

Here is the datalog graph (2nd -5th gear) when i raced the M3 with autotune on and achieved max boost at 16.8psi.




Here is the datalog (2nd-5th gear) of the second race with autotune of and boost set at 14.5psi and IC =0




In the first race i wonder why the autotune didn't raize the Ic from 0 to 50% or 100% and why the max boost didn't fall down from 16.8psi
In daily use, i drive the car on map1 with boost setting at 12psi and Ic=0
I put map2 only for race (1-2 times about month). Should i leave map2 with autotune on and max boost 17psi, or should i put autotune of with standard boost=14.5psi and IC=0. The car in midrange definetly pull harder with autotune on and 17psi max boost.

[cn555ic]

You keep posting logs of why your car has these timing drops and Shiv as well as others have told you that your gas might be an issue and your running too aggressive setup without supporting bolt ons. With your mods you should be running 14-15 psi at most. If you want to run more I would install a meth injection system on your E93. That would 99% solve your timing drops for sure. Turn autotune off and set boost to UT setting to 50 max.

[jpsimon]

too much boost for your mods!!

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Have you tried autotuning, with aggression target of 1 yet? That's likely where you need to be.

In order to avoid timing drops altogether you need to run less boost or add the appropriate modifications to allow for more boost. FMIC, DP's, Meth, ETC

It also should be mentioned the best performance might still have timing drops. You need to choose a happy medium of safety and performance.

[chiefsotos]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Have you tried autotuning, with aggression target of 1 yet? That's likely where you need to be.

In order to avoid timing drops altogether you need to run less boost or add the appropriate modifications to allow for more boost. FMIC, DP's, Meth, ETC

It also should be mentioned the best performance might still have timing drops. You need to choose a happy medium of safety and performance.

No i didn't find time to made some more test. And now with the new beta maps i would prefer to try them..
The only mode i am missing is Meth, but i am afraid if there will be negative results in the extended use of it.
Yours last sentence is what i need to hear, i was wondering which is the most powerfull solution (high boost with some timing drops or less boost with no timing retard)
As i mention i use map 2 only for racing from time to time(race of 1km length), so i suppose it isn't so bad for the engine for using it once upon a time.
Besides when i tried to use it for longer distance the autotune Ic correction started to raize even at 50%.
Am i risking to much with these levels of boost(16-16.8 psi) and some timing drops? (I repeat it is not a daily driving map)

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by chiefsotos

As i mention i use map 2 only for racing from time to time(race of 1km length), so i suppose it isn't so bad for the engine for using it once upon a time.
Besides when i tried to use it for longer distance the autotune Ic correction started to raize even at 50%.
Am i risking to much with these levels of boost(16-16.8 psi) and some timing drops? (I repeat it is not a daily driving map)

If I were you, I'd drop the boost. But if winning a race is more important than you're engines safety... The timing drops you posted aren't terrible, but dropping timing multiple times in one gear definitely means you're being too aggressive. As others have said, you should be running less boost.

Keep your car healthy and just run some racing gas on nights you plan on pushing it. I don't know what mods you're running, but you can get to FBO pretty inexpensively with this car. If running high boost is important to you, you have to pay the cost. You've gotten advise from some very knowledgeable people and they've all said the same thing. I hope you don't post a thread about you "breaking your car". I feel like this is where you're heading.