[droptop335]

Tried a search and came up with so many hits that I didn't know where to start.

Does anybody know how much, if any, UV protection Einszett 1Z cockpit premium provides? I have been using Aerospace 303 for years, and it has done a great job, but I kind of like the more matte finish of the Einszett to the slight shine of the 303.

Given that I have an E93 and have the top down at every opportunity, UV protection is critical, so I don't want to give up the protection. Anybody know if 1Z is as good as 303 in this regard?

[droptop335]

BTW, I just sent an email to Einszett Germany to ask this same question. I will post the answer (if I get one) here.

[MuttGrunt]

It's not nearly as good as 303 Aerospace in UV protection abilities, but from everything I've heard, it does has a minimal amount of protection. I agree that the look is much nicer than 303, but also keep in mind you don't need to apply 303 at every chance you get.

Apply the 303 every other or every 3 months. Apply a very small amount of Cockpit Premium to a microfiber towel and wipe down your dash once a week (my g/f, many of my clients, and I all keep a small spritz bottle of 1Z and a microfiber in our glove boxes). Doing so - you'll get the best of all worlds. Smart move to use 303 with an E93, but sometimes its using multiple products to truly get the result you love. I know how this is as I'm also a convertible owner.

[droptop335]

Originally Posted by MuttGrunt

It's not nearly as good as 303 Aerospace in UV protection abilities, but from everything I've heard, it does has a minimal amount of protection. I agree that the look is much nicer than 303, but also keep in mind you don't need to apply 303 at every chance you get.

Apply the 303 every other or every 3 months. Apply a very small amount of Cockpit Premium to a microfiber towel and wipe down your dash once a week (my g/f, many of my clients, and I all keep a small spritz bottle of 1Z and a microfiber in our glove boxes). Doing so - you'll get the best of all worlds. Smart move to use 303 with an E93, but sometimes its using multiple products to truly get the result you love. I know how this is as I'm also a convertible owner.

I have been wiping down my vinyl and leather with a damp cloth and reapplying 303 every 2-3 months, and it seems to work very well. But if I do as you suggest and use 1Z weekly in between 303 applications, aren't I just removing the 303's UV protection?

[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by droptop335

I have been wiping down my vinyl and leather with a damp cloth and reapplying 303 every 2-3 months, and it seems to work very well. But if I do as you suggest and use 1Z weekly in between 303 applications, aren't I just removing the 303's UV protection?

Wipe down the vinyl with a light spritz of 1Z: as you know the best part about the product is how surfaces look with a little bit of the product on them. The dressing ability and cleaning ability are all very light with Cockpit Premium and I think you'll be fine.

Could you be removing some of 303's UV protection? You certainly could be. Let me also remind you that washing your car (even with properly diluted high quality car wash shampoo) will remove some of your wax's/sealant's protection ability. I'm sure that doesn't stop you from keeping your pretty lady clean though does it?

[droptop335]

Originally Posted by MuttGrunt

Wipe down the vinyl with a light spritz of 1Z: as you know the best part about the product is how surfaces look with a little bit of the product on them. The dressing ability and cleaning ability are all very light with Cockpit Premium and I think you'll be fine.

Could you be removing some of 303's UV protection? You certainly could be. Let me also remind you that washing your car (even with properly diluted high quality car wash shampoo) will remove some of your wax's/sealant's protection ability. I'm sure that doesn't stop you from keeping your pretty lady clean though does it?

Yep, agree with you fully...thanks!

[droptop335]

Still curious whether Einszett Germany will respond to my question...

[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by droptop335

Yep, agree with you fully...thanks!

I enjoy it when people ask great questions. This is much more enjoyable than what seem to be the two most popular postings I see:

1. "What wax do I use?"

2. "What do I put on my leather?"


GL, happy detailing, and let the community and I know if you have any other questions. Never forget that when you start to get really into car car: there are fewer and fewer absolutes and more and more personal preferences. It's all about understanding how things work and going from there.

[droptop335]

Originally Posted by MuttGrunt

I enjoy it when people ask great questions. This is much more enjoyable than what seem to be the two most popular postings I see:

1. "What wax do I use?"

2. "What do I put on my leather?"


GL, happy detailing, and let the community and I know if you have any other questions. Never forget that when you start to get really into car car: there are fewer and fewer absolutes and more and more personal preferences. It's all about understanding how things work and going from there.

Ok, you asked for it!

As I stated earlier, I have been using 303 for years, and certainly ever since I got my E93 4+ years ago. A couple of questions have always nagged me:

1. Is 303 (or any UV protectant for that matter) acceptable to use on leather? The reason I ask is that it seems to me the leather should be cleaned and conditioned regularly, but I don't think 303 would even adhere properly over "conditioned" leather. So I've only cleaned my leather 2 or 3 times in the 4+ years, and then reapplied 303 without any prior leather conditioner. While I think this limits the UV exposure on the leather, does it also invite the leather to be "dried out" prematurely?
2. I also use 303 on hard surfaces in my cockpit such as the wood trim and plastic parts (like the black seat trim). I have always wondered if these harder surfaces should be treated like the paint and sealed with sealant (I use Klasse) instead of 303?

[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by droptop335

Ok, you asked for it!

As I stated earlier, I have been using 303 for years, and certainly ever since I got my E93 4+ years ago. A couple of questions have always nagged me:

1. Is 303 (or any UV protectant for that matter) acceptable to use on leather? The reason I ask is that it seems to me the leather should be cleaned and conditioned regularly, but I don't think 303 would even adhere properly over "conditioned" leather. So I've only cleaned my leather 2 or 3 times in the 4+ years, and then reapplied 303 without any prior leather conditioner. While I think this limits the UV exposure on the leather, does it also invite the leather to be "dried out" prematurely?
2. I also use 303 on hard surfaces in my cockpit such as the wood trim and plastic parts (like the black seat trim). I have always wondered if these harder surfaces should be treated like the paint and sealed with sealant (I use Klasse) instead of 303?

First keep in mind how your leather is made and what it is: it has a urethane coating over the actually leather to resist wear and damage. Most "conditioner" products are actually bad for it and cause it to wear out faster (imagine covering your skin in vaseline and then going into a sand storm or dust storm). The majority of what your leather needs is to keep that urethane coating CLEAN. Without dirt and grime wearing /micro-sanding the finish, it'll last much longer.
When it comes to topless rides, it gets tougher because UV ray damage becomes something to actually be worried about. I'm recommend NOT using anything but quality leather care products on the leather YOU TOUCH specifically. This means stuff like Leather Master or LTT leather care products. For surfaces you don't touch, or don't touch nearly as much, you might want to consider 303 on them.
In all - think of micro-sanding and wear when it comes to surfaces. Things you sit on or contact often have oils from your body, dyes from clothing, debris, etc rubbing into them. Any residue from a product could capture debris and cause additional wear. Also, the seat's surface you sit on is covered while you're driving from your body: it's not getting hit with any UV rays.

Your muscles sit under your skin. If you don't "condition" your skin, do your muscles dry out? This is the same with your urethane coating. If anything, a wipe down with water is all that seems to be needed when it comes to "hydration" as water molecules are small enough to potentially penetrate surface micro-cracks in the coating. Aside from that, you're not going to get into leather hydration on your seat material. If you had a different type of leather surface, you could start looking into the fat-liquor process used to treat aniline leather surfaces... but that's just not the case and is completely irrelevant in this scenario.


When it comes to other hard surfaces, it helps (IMO) to understand how the products are made and composed. Plastics certainly could use 303 to help keep them looking proper over time. Unlike paint, plastics are much more likely to be a complete homogeneous layer of material. The surface likely doesn't have any additional protective abilities than say 3-50 microns underneath.
Wood trim however is something different. Most trim used now is clear-coated for additional depth, gloss, and (mainly) durability. The clear-coat used should have UV ray blockers / inhibitors just as it does in your vehicle's clear-coat over the paint. After talking to Dr. David Ghodoussi of Optimum Car Care, I'm now well aware that UV blockers can migrate into substrates, but I hardly think it'd be a major factor for an interior trim piece, even in a topless car. In short, use clear-coat protective products on clear-coat and plastic protective products on plastic

[droptop335]

Originally Posted by MuttGrunt

First keep in mind how your leather is made and what it is: it has a urethane coating over the actually leather to resist wear and damage. Most "conditioner" products are actually bad for it and cause it to wear out faster (imagine covering your skin in vaseline and then going into a sand storm or dust storm). The majority of what your leather needs is to keep that urethane coating CLEAN. Without dirt and grime wearing /micro-sanding the finish, it'll last much longer.
When it comes to topless rides, it gets tougher because UV ray damage becomes something to actually be worried about. I'm recommend NOT using anything but quality leather care products on the leather YOU TOUCH specifically. This means stuff like Leather Master or LTT leather care products. For surfaces you don't touch, or don't touch nearly as much, you might want to consider 303 on them.
In all - think of micro-sanding and wear when it comes to surfaces. Things you sit on or contact often have oils from your body, dyes from clothing, debris, etc rubbing into them. Any residue from a product could capture debris and cause additional wear. Also, the seat's surface you sit on is covered while you're driving from your body: it's not getting hit with any UV rays.

Your muscles sit under your skin. If you don't "condition" your skin, do your muscles dry out? This is the same with your urethane coating. If anything, a wipe down with water is all that seems to be needed when it comes to "hydration" as water molecules are small enough to potentially penetrate surface micro-cracks in the coating. Aside from that, you're not going to get into leather hydration on your seat material. If you had a different type of leather surface, you could start looking into the fat-liquor process used to treat aniline leather surfaces... but that's just not the case and is completely irrelevant in this scenario.


When it comes to other hard surfaces, it helps (IMO) to understand how the products are made and composed. Plastics certainly could use 303 to help keep them looking proper over time. Unlike paint, plastics are much more likely to be a complete homogeneous layer of material. The surface likely doesn't have any additional protective abilities than say 3-50 microns underneath.
Wood trim however is something different. Most trim used now is clear-coated for additional depth, gloss, and (mainly) durability. The clear-coat used should have UV ray blockers / inhibitors just as it does in your vehicle's clear-coat over the paint. After talking to Dr. David Ghodoussi of Optimum Car Care, I'm now well aware that UV blockers can migrate into substrates, but I hardly think it'd be a major factor for an interior trim piece, even in a topless car. In short, use clear-coat protective products on clear-coat and plastic protective products on plastic

I really appreciate the tutorial! Seems as though I've been doing a pretty decent (albeit ignorant) job so far, even though I've been using 303 on all my leather and vinyl surfaces, even the ones I sit on. As you said, it's not as much about hydration (conditioning) as it is about protection. The one thing I could probably do better is a more frequent cleaning. I recently purchased some Lexol pH leather cleaner, and used it with a relatively soft bristle brush to gently work it into the pebbling, with just a MF wipe-off after that. I was gonna apply 303 again after that...

With respect to the hard surfaces, based on what you stated I will probably continue to use the 303 on the hard homogeneous (black plastic) surfaces (maybe in conjunction with the 1Z) and will move to using Klasse on the clear-coated parts. I would imagine that one Klasse treatment per year or two would suffice for interior trim.

Thanks again for the discourse my friend!

[droptop335]

Originally Posted by MuttGrunt

First keep in mind how your leather is made and what it is: it has a urethane coating over the actually leather to resist wear and damage.

By the way, the leather in E93's is also treated to reduce surface temps. Not sure what the treatment consists of, but I'm always careful not to use anything harsh on the leather so as not to remove or disturb this coating, in case it's not actually impregnated into the leather. This from the BMW website:

Comfort you can't see but can definitely feel: SunReflective Technology keeps the leather of your BMW's seats and steering wheel cooler - even in direct sunlight - so you can always feel comfortable when you get behind the wheel.

SunReflective Technology is based on a special pigment during the treatment of the leather, which reflects direct sunlight in the invisible waveband. As a result, the surfaces do not become as hot as usual and maintain a pleasantly low temperature. Compared to conventional leather, SunReflective Technology keeps your steering wheel and seats up to 25 °C cooler.

Just an FYI...

[MuttGrunt]

Keep up the good work!
Using the wrong products on leather leads to additional wear. Perfect example - here's part of a seat from an '83 Ferrari I worked on. Despite less than 20k miles, the leather had A LOT of build up from too much "conditioner" and didn't look or feel right. Once properly cleaned, the leather felt and looked amazing. Leather shouldn't be shiny looking. It should be sheen and beautiful.



You're better off keeping your leather clean and free of ANY product than using the wrong stuff.

[MuttGrunt]

Originally Posted by droptop335

By the way, the leather in E93's is also treated to reduce surface temps. Not sure what the treatment consists of, but I'm always careful not to use anything harsh on the leather so as not to remove or disturb this coating, in case it's not actually impregnated into the leather. This from the BMW website:

Comfort you can't see but can definitely feel: SunReflective Technology keeps the leather of your BMW's seats and steering wheel cooler - even in direct sunlight - so you can always feel comfortable when you get behind the wheel.

SunReflective Technology is based on a special pigment during the treatment of the leather, which reflects direct sunlight in the invisible waveband. As a result, the surfaces do not become as hot as usual and maintain a pleasantly low temperature. Compared to conventional leather, SunReflective Technology keeps your steering wheel and seats up to 25 °C cooler.

Just an FYI...

Interesting and helpful to use in a car that might be left top down in the sun.

Here's an even better pic of the same Ferrari. Mind you - less than 20k miles and the leather already had some hardcore wear and "cracking" spots (these areas were where there is even more build up, which causes more wear and build up, which causes more wear and build up, etc). Especially look past the driver's seat and look at the passanger seat bottom area.




I don't have a true "after" on the driver's seat but know it was much improved. Here's an after of the passanger seat which wasn't as bad, but was still quite bad for her miles, that was turned around to like-new condition:




EDIT: Here's a "near after" of the driver's seat as I was still applying an intermediate step:

[TOGWT]

Originally Posted by droptop335

By the way, the leather in E93's is also treated to reduce surface temps. Not sure what the treatment consists of, but I'm always careful not to use anything harsh on the leather so as not to remove or disturb this coating, in case it's not actually impregnated into the leather. This from the BMW website:

Comfort you can't see but can definitely feel: SunReflective Technology keeps the leather of your BMW's seats and steering wheel cooler - even in direct sunlight - so you can always feel comfortable when you get behind the wheel.

SunReflective Technology is based on a special pigment during the treatment of the leather, which reflects direct sunlight in the invisible waveband. As a result, the surfaces do not become as hot as usual and maintain a pleasantly low temperature. Compared to conventional leather, SunReflective Technology keeps your steering wheel and seats up to 25 °C cooler.

Just an FYI...

Ultra violet (UV) radiation is made up of two parts; UV-A infrared (Heat) and UV-B ultra violet light, which is responsible for photosynthesis (fading)

Quality UV protection products contain ultra violet stabilizers

There are a couple things that should be realized; auto paint or chemical companies don't state the amount of ultra violet protection is in their clear coat, nor do they tell you what the specific ultra violet stabilizing chemical is in most cases.

UV stabilizers are a group of chemical agents with the ability to counteract or neutralize the harmful effects of UV-B light radiation. Competitive absorbers provide protection by converting UV light to heat so it can dissipate harmlessly All UV stabilizers are consumed as they do their job. In a way, they serve as sacrificial molecules, taking the abuse from the UV light instead of the material they are protecting.

Ultra violet light (UV-B) radiation and environmental contaminant exposure leads to photo degradation of materials and surface staining. But before UV light can cause harm, it must first be absorbed. If it is not turned into heat or transferred to a nearby stabilizer molecule called a quencher, it breaks weak chemical bonds. This is the beginning of UV damage. Some materials absorb UV light more readily than other materials.

Be cognizant that ultra violet heat (UV-A) radiation can also affect the structural integrity of materials by drying out and therefore removing their elasticity and causing structural damage (cracking).

IMO the best UV protection product is 303 Space Protectant

[droptop335]

Originally Posted by TOGWT

Ultra violet (UV) radiation is made up of two parts; UV-A infrared (Heat) and UV-B ultra violet light, which is responsible for photosynthesis (fading)

While I agree with most of what you stated, the statement above is in fact wrong.

UV and IR (Infra-red = heat) waves are completely different wavelengths and actually are on either side of the visible wavelengths:

UV wavelengths = 90 - 400 nanometers (nm) There is no heat generated in the UV range
Visible wavelengths = 400-700nm
IR wavelengths = 700 - 5000nm, with most of the heat being generated at the 5000nm end of the range

It is true that UV is split into subranges, usually UVA (320-400nm) and UVB (290-320nm), with UVC being blocked by the ozone layer. Most automotive glass (except specially treated UV bolcking glass as in most windshields) is transparent to UVA, which causes the fading we are trying to avoid.

Heat (IR) is a different source of damage in that it pulls moisture out of the materials that get heated by it, a very commonly understood phenomenon (why a sidewalk in the sun dries faster than a sidewalk in the shade).

[x3man1994]

This was great. I really wish that rather than having a bunch of forums for detailing we make a site wide one that has a knowledge base of all BMW owners as opposed to how it is now.

[TOGWT]

Originally Posted by droptop335

While I agree with most of what you stated, the statement above is in fact wrong.

UV and IR (Infra-red = heat) waves are completely different wavelengths and actually are on either side of the visible wavelengths:

UV wavelengths = 90 - 400 nanometers (nm) There is no heat generated in the UV range
Visible wavelengths = 400-700nm
IR wavelengths = 700 - 5000nm, with most of the heat being generated at the 5000nm end of the range

It is true that UV is split into subranges, usually UVA (320-400nm) and UVB (290-320nm), with UVC being blocked by the ozone layer. Most automotive glass (except specially treated UV bolcking glass as in most windshields) is transparent to UVA, which causes the fading we are trying to avoid.

Heat (IR) is a different source of damage in that it pulls moisture out of the materials that get heated by it, a very commonly understood phenomenon (why a sidewalk in the sun dries faster than a sidewalk in the shade).

The answer I proffered was on UV damage, I made no reference to its wavelength, visible or otherwise. I would need a little more than differing wavelengths to concede [the statement above is in fact wrong.]

[droptop335]

Originally Posted by TOGWT

The answer I proffered was on UV damage, I made no reference to its wavelength, visible or otherwise. I would need a little more than differing wavelengths to concede [the statement above is in fact wrong.]

You claimed heat (infrared) was created specifically by UV:

"Ultra violet (UV) radiation is made up of two parts; UV-A infrared (Heat) and UV-B ultra violet light, which is responsible for photosynthesis (fading)"

Infrared heat does not come from UV rays, it comes from a very different (IR) portion of the spectrum. No heat is generated by UV rays, at least not the kind that would dry out materials.

And by the way, photosynthesis has nothing to do with fading. It's a photochemical reaction with chlorophyl in plants. Perhaps you meant to say "photodegradation"?

[jmen11]

I e-mailed Einszett that exact question a while back and also how it compares to their exterior protectant Vinyl-Rubber Care 'Tiefenpfleger'. This is the reply I got.

Hello Jorge,

Thank you for your email. Cockpit Premium lacks the strong UV protection of
exterior protectant Vinyl-Rubber Care 'Tiefenpfleger' due to its intent to
be used on interior surfaces. Today's automotive glass already filter the
majority of UV rays. Therefore, additional UV protection is unnecessary. The
only time this is not the case is if you have a convertible top in which
case a protectant like Vinyl-Rubber Care will offer protection.

What Cockpit Premium does contain are ingredients that protect against
fading due to heat. You can spray Vinyl-Rubber Care on interior surfaces as
well but you should not apply it on areas such as the steering wheel, pedals
and shift knob due to its slippery finish.

Hope this helps. If you have further questions, please do not hesitate to
ask.

Thank you again and best regards,


Mike
einszett Customer Support
Orange, California 92867
888-719-4698

[droptop335]

OK, so here is the reponse I received from Einszett USA, which had been forwarded the email I sent to the HQ in Germany:

Hi Chris,
Your inquiry was just forwarded to us from our German office therefore the delay in response to your question.
Since Cockpit Premium is an interior product, it does not have the same UV level of protection as 303. This is due to the fact that most interior UV is filtered through the automotive glass. Nonetheless, it is sufficient for protection against fading due to sun exposure.
Our exterior plastic, vinyl and rubber treatment Vinyl-Rubber Care and Protectant is equivalent in protection level to 303. In addition to offering the same UV protection, it’s also water and dust resistant to withstand the effects of daily driving. Vinyl-Rubber may also be used on interior car surfaces if you desire. However, do not apply on any surfaces you would make contact with (shift knob, steering wheel, pedals or seat) since the weather resistant finish makes the finish slippery (it is a dry finish, not oily).
We recommend applying Vinyl-Rubber Care on interior surfaces that receive long durations of sun exposure such as convertibles and sea craft. If you’re looking for a more matte finish, then apply Cockpit Premium afterwards to reduce some of the gloss.
Hope this helps answer your question.
If you have any additional questions, please feel free to get in touch with us.
Thank you,

Guess I'll stick with 303 for my E93.

The trouble with all spray protectants is that when you are trying to apply them to very specific areas (rubber windshield trim for instance), it is very difficult to prevent the spray from hitting other surfaces. I know you can spray it directly on a cloth first, but then alot of the product seems to get lost on the cloth and never make it to the surface to be treated. It would be nice to find a small applicator bottle that has a fairly stiff sponge tip that could be use to squeeze just the right amount of product out and spread it using the tip...anybody know if those applicator bottles exist?

By the way, he makes a statement that most UV is filtered by automotive glass. As I understand it, this is wrong, except for specially treated glass (windshields). Normal glass is almost transparent to UV rays...Indeed I had a car that sat outside in the same position for almost 6 months, and the interior of the south facing side was noticeably more faded than the side facing north. The windows were never down!

[TOGWT]

Ultra violet penetration of auto glass; UV radiation is present in the sun’s rays throughout the year in varying amounts. Automobile window tinting reduces the visible light transmission (VLT) through car windows. Tinted UV filtered auto window glass filters out about 37% of infrared (IR) radiation and 97% of UVB (light) radiation that is responsible for photo degradation (colour fading)