[bimmerlex]

I did search, but couldn't find an answer for the question I asked in one of the previous threads. Everybody is talking about neccessity of oil cooler on AT with Sport Package (ZSP). How about oil cooler for AT without ZSP? I don't have a Sport Package, and I don't have an oil cooler. Should I claim for one, or am I safe without it? What's different about internals of a car with AT and ZSP and just with AT (besides seats, wheels, etc...) that oil cooler is required on AT with ZSP only? Or do I still need one as well?

Thank you.

[Dr_Dirt]

I think all 335's need this but BMW says only the Sport option gets it.

[Dr_Dirt]

the only difference performance wise is the Sport option raises the speed limiter.

[bimmerlex]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

the only difference performance wise is the Sport option raises the speed limiter.

But how would this justify having an oil cooler for a normal day-to-day driving over not having it. How often do we really go over 130 MPH? Does it mean if you don't go to this speed limit then you don't really need an oil cooler whether it be Sport Package or not? My oil temp is going to 250-260 after about 20 minutes of driving, and stays on this level all the time, and it's not even close to California summer weather yet.

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

the only difference performance wise is the Sport option raises the speed limiter.

........It also lowers the suspension another 2mm.

[bimmerlex]

Originally Posted by mesier1111

........It also lowers the suspension another 2mm.

And how would this relate to an oil cooler issue?

[BMW_drei]

Originally Posted by bimmerlex

And how would this relate to an oil cooler issue?

Because temperatures are higher the closer you are to the Earth's core... Real answer: it doesn't.

The cooler wasn't included in the Sport Package (or not...) because of how YOU might use your car. It was excluded from the SP/AT cars because BMW perceived that those who buy AT don't really intend to go very fast or push their cars hard -- i.e. they bought a Sports Appearance Package. According to the rep I talked to, the cooler was retained in the Manual/SP cars because BMW felt those owners were more likely to use the car in a "race-type" application.

So the absence of an oil-to-air cooler has nothing to do with an engineering requirement -- just a perceived customer use profile. This of course from word-of-mouth from a BMW rep, so plausible deniability... This is reinforced by the fact that only some customers are being offered a cooler retrofit (If you complain enough you get to sign a permission slip for them to fit you with a gag -- an option not available to new purchasers!).

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by BMW_drei

Because temperatures are higher the closer you are to the Earth's core... Real answer: it doesn't.

The cooler wasn't included in the Sport Package (or not...) because of how YOU might use your car. It was excluded from the SP/AT cars because BMW perceived that those who buy AT don't really intend to go very fast or push their cars hard -- i.e. they bought a Sports Appearance Package. According to the rep I talked to, the cooler was retained in the Manual/SP cars because BMW felt those owners were more likely to use the car in a "race-type" application.

So the absence of an oil-to-air cooler has nothing to do with an engineering requirement -- just a perceived customer use profile. This of course from word-of-mouth from a BMW rep, so plausible deniability... This is reinforced by the fact that only some customers are being offered a cooler retrofit (If you complain enough you get to sign a permission slip for them to fit you with a gag -- an option not available to new purchasers!).

The following was a reply from BMW to a 335i owner regarding the oil cooler;

Dear Mr. ******:
Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding parts in your 2007
BMW 335Ci. We appreciate your inquiry.
In addition to the standard coolant-to-oil cooler, any 335i with the 150-mph topspeed
limiter (thus with the Sport Package)has an air-to-oil cooler

positioned in
the right front wheelwell. I hope this information is helpful.
If you have any further questions, please reply to this e-mail or contact the
Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through
Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for
contacting BMW.
Sincerely,
**************
Customer Relations and Services
Representative
_____________________________________

[bimmerlex]

Originally Posted by Dr_Dirt

The following was a reply from BMW to a 335i owner regarding the oil cooler;

Dear Mr. ******:
Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding parts in your 2007
BMW 335Ci. We appreciate your inquiry.
In addition to the standard coolant-to-oil cooler, any 335i with the 150-mph topspeed
limiter (thus with the Sport Package)has an air-to-oil cooler

positioned in
the right front wheelwell. I hope this information is helpful.
If you have any further questions, please reply to this e-mail or contact the
Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through
Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for
contacting BMW.
Sincerely,
Bethany Sims
Customer Relations and Services
Representative
_____________________________________

Thanks, Dr_Dirt.
I guess I'll have to contact BMWNA and find out from them why are oil coolers are limited to only 335i with the 150-mph topspeed

[jon@themshop]

Originally Posted by bimmerlex

Thanks, Dr_Dirt.
I guess I'll have to contact BMWNA and find out from them why are oil coolers are limited to only 335i with the 150-mph topspeed

I have a 2007 335i sedan/steptronic/sport package/10-06 pro. date/No oil cooler

[bimmerlex]

Originally Posted by jon@themshop

I have a 2007 335i sedan/steptronic/sport package/10-06 pro. date/No oil cooler

What oil temperature does your car reach in every day normal driving?

[jon@themshop]

Originally Posted by bimmerlex

What oil temperature does your car reach in every day normal driving?

You know.. it ain't so bad but the max I have seen is 250F. I even did a few WOT runs on the freeway, exit to park at a parking lot, and I even saw the turbine/exhaust manifold glowing and oil was around 240-250F. I am sure when it gets hotter or even racing conditions it will be higher.

Average is 230-240F.

[mesier1111]

Originally Posted by bimmerlex

And how would this relate to an oil cooler issue?

It doesn't but someone mentioned something about the difference between the car with ZSP and without......thats all.

[bimmerlex]

Originally Posted by jon@themshop

You know.. it ain't so bad but the max I have seen is 250F. I even did a few WOT runs on the freeway, exit to park at a parking lot, and I even saw the turbine/exhaust manifold glowing and oil was around 240-250F. I am sure when it gets hotter or even racing conditions it will be higher.

Average is 230-240F.

That's exactly what I am getting now in this weather, it even hit 270F couple of times. But I really worry if it will be at 300F level during summer.

[jon@themshop]

Originally Posted by bimmerlex

That's exactly what I am getting now in this weather, it even hit 270F couple of times. But I really worry if it will be at 300F level during summer.

Wow 270F? is that city driving?

[bimmerlex]

Yep, purely city driving, and not agressive at all - mostly 405 FWY bumper-to-bumper. That's why I'm concerned...

[Maestro]

Right or wrong I think BMW is making an assumption if you order the sport package whether with 6At or 6MT you will operate the car at a higher level of preformance, i.e. drive it more agressively. Therefore, having the oil cooler is needed since your normal operating tempatures will be higher under agressive driving conditions. One of the things driving oil temp up is the Turbos, and the more you accelerate from low to high speeds the hotter the turbo's will get.

Remember Turbo do not continually provide boost, only when you need it.

The nice side affect of having the cooler is you should have a more reliable engine since your keeping the temps lower under normal conditions.

I have had Picks, SUVs and Van and I always order the towing package with them since you get a extra tranny and Oil coolers. It nice to have even of you do not tow since it helps keeps the eng and tranny cooler.

[bilworth]

270 last Friday on the way home. 68 degrees F outside. Traffic was slow, about 20 with stops. I live at 6000 feet ASL though. I don't know if that would make a difference.

[turbocoins]

Have you contacted BMW? It makes sense to report your situation. However, if it hasn't gone into limp mode (which is present as a safety net to prevent any thermal damage), then what is the problem? They changed the gauge on the newest cars to list 240 as the median temp, not 210. Additionally, they raised the highest temp listed to 340, even thoug the car would go into limp mode at 300. It seems that they don't seem to think 270 is a problem. Why not let them know that you are concerned, because it isn't even hot out yet and you're 30 degrees from limp mode in normal traffic?

[bimmerlex]

Originally Posted by turbocoins

Have you contacted BMW? It makes sense to report your situation. However, if it hasn't gone into limp mode (which is present as a safety net to prevent any thermal damage), then what is the problem? They changed the gauge on the newest cars to list 240 as the median temp, not 210. Additionally, they raised the highest temp listed to 340, even thoug the car would go into limp mode at 300. It seems that they don't seem to think 270 is a problem. Why not let them know that you are concerned, because it isn't even hot out yet and you're 30 degrees from limp mode in normal traffic?

I am just not sure they are going to do aything about it until I really go into limp. So, I guess I'm just waiting for the real problem to occur, and then taking it to the dealership.

[Dr_Dirt]

Originally Posted by bimmerlex

I am just not sure they are going to do aything about it until I really go into limp. So, I guess I'm just waiting for the real problem to occur, and then taking it to the dealership.

Well at least you are now informed of the impending "limp mode" failure. Personally I would be pro-active in preventing any possible damage to my car.

[bilworth]

Originally Posted by turbocoins

Have you contacted BMW? It makes sense to report your situation. However, if it hasn't gone into limp mode (which is present as a safety net to prevent any thermal damage), then what is the problem? They changed the gauge on the newest cars to list 240 as the median temp, not 210. Additionally, they raised the highest temp listed to 340, even thoug the car would go into limp mode at 300. It seems that they don't seem to think 270 is a problem. Why not let them know that you are concerned, because it isn't even hot out yet and you're 30 degrees from limp mode in normal traffic?

Here is the problem. I don't want a car that is prone to going into limp mode. Especially when my wife is driving it alone. When I purchased the vehicle I understood the engine was in it’s first year of production and may be subject to some problems. However, I have been a faithful BMW customer since purchasing my first BMW five years ago. During that period, I have purchased four new BMW’s and influenced friends to purchase two others. That accounts for six new BMW’s in five years. No significant problems were experienced with regard to any of the new cars during that time, though some minor problems arose which were handled by BMW without incident. Before purchasing the E92, I availed myself to as much information as I could regarding the design of the new engine. I read every review I could find and every document BMW published pertaining to the new engine. All reviews were good. The information I could attain from BMW confirmed my expectations that the engine was designed in a manner consistent with what I had come to expect from a premium automobile manufacturer. Of significant influence in giving me confidence to purchase the N54 engine in it’s first year of production, were the BMW Engine Management documents dated September 2006. These documents confirmed the N54 engine had an "External Oil Cooler" (Engine Introduction - Pg. 6). They also stated: "The cooling system of the N54 engine consists of a radiator circuit and an isolated oil cooling circuit. The fact that there is an isolated oil-cooling circuit ensures that heat is not introduced via the engine oil into the engine’s coolant system." (Engine Management - Pg. 42). BMW further addressed the need for an isolated oil cooling circuit and other components designed to increase the performance of the N54 cooling system on the following page where it stated: "There is significantly greater quantity of heat on account of this engine’s increased power of 75.5 kW/l in comparison with the other 3-liter spark-ignition engines. This boundary condition is satisfied by the engine cooling system with its increased performance. This increase in power was to be realized in spite of some factors less advantageous to cooling. Factors to be mentioned here are: Approximately 15% less flow area is available on account of the intercooler located below the radiator. The already small amount of space provided by the engine compartment is further limited by the accommodation of further components. Because the exhaust turbochargers are cooled by coolant, an additional quantity of heat is introduced into the system via these turbochargers. Measures for increasing cooling system performance: Coolant pump with increased power - 400W/9000l/h. Separation of water and engine-oil cooling. Radiator with increased power. Electric fan with increased power of 600W for all gearbox variants." (Engine Management - Pg. 43). The Engine Management document provided a schematic diagram of the external oil cooler entitled: "High Performance Engine-oil Cooler" on page 46. I was comfortable that the need for additional oil cooling for the N54 engine, common to turbo-charged engines, had been effectively addressed by BMW. These documents addressed the N54 engine without regard to option package or model. I therefore purchased this car with confidence. However, some of us did not get the complete cooling system. BMW chose to omit the separate oil cooling circuit without notice or price adjustment on some vehicles. Aren’t all customers entitled to the same value for their investment? And, the long term effects of elevated oil temperatures on this engine are yet to be determined. I further suspect any resulting damage may not manifest itself until after the warrantee period expires. Such a scenario leaves the consumer in a compromised position regarding possible significant repair costs and reduced resale value. However, I believe BMW will ultimately come through for us. As far as I know, they always have. Thanks asking.:rocks: