2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 

2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 BMW 5-Series (F10) Forums Regional Forums ASIA Lighter Wheels & Lowering.
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-05-2011, 01:26 AM   #1
Whteverjklasdf
First Lieutenant
No_Country
20
Rep
301
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Lighter Wheels & Lowering.

Right... i am not lowering my F10 (my car doesn't have adaptive drive). And this is mainly due to the fact that road condition here in HK is far from ideal. Do i want a lower ride so that it will look cool? of course i do, but i think it's not worth it for me.

I just changed my car from 245/45 18 RFT all around to 245/40 19 Front & 275/35 19 Rear. The change in ride quality (and characteristics) is subtle but noticeable. First of all, the wheel combo is now lighter so the suspension geometry can work more freely, especially at the front. Although the rear width is now increased to 275, the overall weight has reduced slightly by getting rid of the factory alloy (8Jx18 style 237; about 35lbs each) and the heavy RFT.

However, the car is obviously more bumpy going form 18" to 19". The difference is NOT substantial, but still significant enough to be noticeable. The sidewall of the RFT is stiffer than usual, but the same can be said to any low profile tire. So going from 18" RFT to 19" non-RFT (while maintaining the overall size) will certainly offset a certain degree of benefit in terms of ride quality. Whoever tells that you the car will ride just as smooth on 20" because the RFT is now gone, is outright BSing.

Another obvious change is the noise. The lighter front wheels can now move up and down more quickly and the car is slightly less boat-like, but it also makes more noise. This is most obvious when the car continuously rolls over small regularities when high frequency vertical wheel travel is required to avoid vibration/movement being transferred to the car's chassis.

The most apparent benefit of the tire/wheel change is the traction gain at the rear. The factory 245 rear rubber was obviously incapable to handle the engine output. Even on dry road, the car would frequently break traction launching at full-throttle, and it's much worse at corner-exit. The 275 rubber allows the car to launch nicely, and make more use of the engine power during aggressive driving.

But then I am not going to lower my car. I plan to keep the car for a long time, say 5 years at least. A harder suspension setting will slowly but surely deteriorate the chassis rigidity few years down the road. You all know how it is; annoying squeaky interior panels and chassis twisting sound that can't be fixed. I plan to let the suspension to take all the beating, and the shitty road conditions here in Hong Kong will ensure endless supply of that.

So my F10 will have wheel gaps so big that it looks like the car is ready to go offroad lol. But when i push the car, i will have the peace of mind that the wheel alloy won't bend going over harsh road conditions. The F10 is heavy, we're talking about a thousand pound of pressure over a small contact patch. I don't wanna be worrying about the suspension or wheels when i want to drive aggressively regardless of where i am. And let's face it, no matter how we mod the F10, it will not corner nearly as fast as a sports car, not even a cheap one but 1,000kg lighter.

So this is my take on the F10 "lower it" consideration. I might want bigger anti-sway bars to do away the understeering/body-roll, but i am not lowering my ride. It's beautiful and classy as it is.


Last edited by Whteverjklasdf; 05-05-2011 at 01:38 AM.. Reason: don't have adaptive drive!
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 02:06 AM   #2
RC3
Colonel
RC3's Avatar
Hong Kong
81
Rep
2,791
Posts

Drives: F10 528i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 F10 528i  [10.00]
Cool bro. Nice to see you have new rims, they are sick. I wanted Breyton GTS too originally, but eventually chose the Forgestar. Have you weighted in your new rims and tires, how much lighter in comparison? What kind of tires you have there?

I agree with you that 20" is bumpier and nosier than the stock 17" RFT. And it also depends on what kind of tires having. For ultra performance tires, it definitely will be more noisy than the non-ultra performance tires (either RFT or non-RFT). While comfort suffers a bit, most of us with 20" will still find the car comfortable. From my experience with the stock wheels which I drove for a few days, I have total disconnection from the road. Absolutely no feel and non-bimmer like. So I traded a little comfort for feel by swapping wheels.

I admit I lowered my car for better appearance, but the major factor is to reduce body roll. My folks kept complaining they wanna puke when I drive on twisty roads. And I don't want to drive like grandpa on these roads. Sport springs definitely improved. And I can tell you comfort has not suffered much, still very comfy and not much bumpier than the stock springs. Changing sway bars definitely is another option to look into, may be later. Give us a review if you do so.
__________________

2011 F10 528i Black Sapphire / Oyster Black
2000 E46 325ci Cabrio Titanium Silver / Black - retired
1997 E36/7 Z3 Montreal Blue / Black - retired
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 03:16 AM   #3
mlai
Colonel
mlai's Avatar
Hong Kong
165
Rep
2,340
Posts

Drives: 650GC/E93M3/Lexus LS600HL
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Sealobo,
Sorry, I was one of the BSing ones Maybe I should go get my testing equipment (my butt) calibrated

Or I am just getting senile on the sensitvity department.

Quick question though, what tyres do you have on the 19"? Some tyres have much stiffer sidewalls than others (Michellin PS2 has very SOFT sidewalls) and that will affect ride quality as well......
__________________
F06 650i Gran Coupe Ruby Black/Dakota Cinamon- 2012-10-12 Adaptive Drive/IAS/Surround View/Adaptive LED/Comfort Seats/BMW 356 Liquid Black/Michelin PSS 245/35R20-285/30R20
E93 M3 Cabriolet Satin Pearl White/CR - 2012/03/12 Bilstein PSS10/ Michelin PSS 245/35R19-265/35R19 Brembo GT
2011 F10 550i M Sport - Retired
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 03:47 AM   #4
SK
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
38
Posts

Drives: 535i Black Sapphire
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

@Sealobo - refreshing to hear another opinion on the lowering debate. I was a little worried about the ride height. Ultimately I'm getting a 5 series for more comfort, otherwise I'd get another M3.

Where did you get your rims?
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 04:04 AM   #5
Whteverjklasdf
First Lieutenant
No_Country
20
Rep
301
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

I didn't put the old/new wheels on scale to get the precise weight difference; i only lifted them up during installation. The front was quite obvious, the rear wasn't so much due to the width increase.

the rubber mounted on the 19" is Dunlop SP Sport Maxx. I didn't get the "extreme" tires because i think they're too expensive (at least 50% more expensive) and the raining season here in HK is quite long.... for all i know it could be raining every other week in the next 5 months and my first priority is not to crash the damn car. haha. by the way the factory RFT sucks major balls on wet. it's outright horrible. So i think the Sport Maxx will suffice and it's pretty good bang for the bucks. Same reason i didn't buy the 550i... there is always a diminishing marginal return.

O yes the passenger-puking issue... lol. i had that a lot when i drove my father's S-class (W140) many years ago. The only solution was to slow way down. I usually drive pretty slow when i have passengers, until i got intimidated lol.

i got the wheels in Mongkok. See the link below.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...275.01,,0,19.8

Last edited by Whteverjklasdf; 05-05-2011 at 06:13 AM.. Reason: spelling.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 06:12 AM   #6
rurujojo
New Member
Hong Kong
5
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: 535
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Sealobo, how much are your rims? i want to change my own rims too. did you trade-in your OEM wheels?
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 06:25 AM   #7
Whteverjklasdf
First Lieutenant
No_Country
20
Rep
301
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rurujojo View Post
Sealobo, how much are your rims? i want to change my own rims too. did you trade-in your OEM wheels?
yes i did a trade-in for the wheels. but sorry, i can't talk about money.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 06:38 AM   #8
RC3
Colonel
RC3's Avatar
Hong Kong
81
Rep
2,791
Posts

Drives: F10 528i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 F10 528i  [10.00]
Sealobo, I think the Breytons are lighter than the OEM even they are cast rims. They are really value for money. And they are sick with BMW, now they make rims for Merc too.

Really don't know the comparison between 18" RFT and 20" regular tires. Only had the 17" RFT, I must iterate that they are extremely comfy but no feel. If my car is driven by a chauffeur and not me, I definitely will keep the 17". (sorry mlai bro, your car also is driven by your chauffeur besides you ). But we are driving the ultimate driving machine, really don't want to drive an ultimate feel-less machine.

SK, you are the lucky bro. You must come to our next meet so I can let you have a ride on my harsh feel slammed 20" F10. Then you can decide whether you want to swap to sport springs, it is really a matter of personal preference. I am not selling but just telling you from my own experience. Afterall, I drove the slammed and non-slammed versions.

Another suggestion, SK. Get better wheels if you are swapping, you are driving a luxury car and you rims and tires are the fundamental. Rather save a few bucks on other mod items.

SK, tip for you. 6 months ago when I asked. Breyton 19" around 3.6 to 3.9k per rim. Trade in OEM per set 17" 4k 18" 7-8k

Heading to airport now, don't know if I can web surf there. Chat more in a couple of weeks.
__________________

2011 F10 528i Black Sapphire / Oyster Black
2000 E46 325ci Cabrio Titanium Silver / Black - retired
1997 E36/7 Z3 Montreal Blue / Black - retired
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 06:52 AM   #9
SK
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
38
Posts

Drives: 535i Black Sapphire
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Thanks RC3. Will def try to make the next meet. So many nice cars among these members. I don't plan on skimping on my wheels - but I don't know much about brands. Forgestar vs. Breyton vs etc???

Will keep looking. Saw some Breytons in a tyre shop today. nice.

Cheers.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 07:04 AM   #10
RC3
Colonel
RC3's Avatar
Hong Kong
81
Rep
2,791
Posts

Drives: F10 528i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 F10 528i  [10.00]
Still here for a bit. I only have the 528, you guys have the sick 535 and 550.

Breyton- cast, value for money, very aggressive look, readily available usually since made in PRC for most.
Forgestar- flow-formed (almost like forged), a bit more $ but also value for money. custom made, not spacer required, 2 months order since made in USA, BBS also flow-formed but more $.
Other forged rims- Adv.1, HRE, DPE, I-forged (forgestar's sister company) and many others. ultra light and strong, ultra sick. but $$$, usually 8k to 10k per rim.

Happy shopping bro, just search this forum, many info.
__________________

2011 F10 528i Black Sapphire / Oyster Black
2000 E46 325ci Cabrio Titanium Silver / Black - retired
1997 E36/7 Z3 Montreal Blue / Black - retired
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 07:07 AM   #11
SK
Enlisted Member
5
Rep
38
Posts

Drives: 535i Black Sapphire
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

You're too helpful. Thanks for the info!
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 07:08 AM   #12
Whteverjklasdf
First Lieutenant
No_Country
20
Rep
301
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

i dont' know about you but my set of Breyton weren't made in China... lol.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 07:12 AM   #13
RC3
Colonel
RC3's Avatar
Hong Kong
81
Rep
2,791
Posts

Drives: F10 528i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 F10 528i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sealobo View Post
i dont' know about you but my set of Breyton weren't made in China... lol.
I have done a lot of research bro.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2093753

Just google breyton made in China and you will find many info.

And this is confirmed by one of the tire shops guy, many shops won't tell you. Their plant is in Shanghai actually.

No offense bro. really have to go. chat soon
__________________

2011 F10 528i Black Sapphire / Oyster Black
2000 E46 325ci Cabrio Titanium Silver / Black - retired
1997 E36/7 Z3 Montreal Blue / Black - retired
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 07:22 AM   #14
Whteverjklasdf
First Lieutenant
No_Country
20
Rep
301
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

o... i seriously didn't know that. i only knew there are A LOT of copies out there and they're mostly made in China, and some BBS made in Taiwan. Personally i don't really care where they're made as long as it's the real stuff (i.e. up to spec). My mac pro is made in China and i can't care less. ha.

a wheel expert told me that one should pay attention when the wheel is being balanced. if it's off-balance for more than 150 gram then it's fishy.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 09:04 AM   #15
Vinfast
Lieutenant
United_States
28
Rep
585
Posts

Drives: '14 550i M-Sport
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Warner Robins, GA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sealobo View Post
Right... i am not lowering my F10 (my car doesn't have adaptive drive). And this is mainly due to the fact that road condition here in HK is far from ideal. Do i want a lower ride so that it will look cool? of course i do, but i think it's not worth it for me.

I just changed my car from 245/45 18 RFT all around to 245/40 19 Front & 275/35 19 Rear. The change in ride quality (and characteristics) is subtle but noticeable. First of all, the wheel combo is now lighter so the suspension geometry can work more freely, especially at the front. Although the rear width is now increased to 275, the overall weight has reduced slightly by getting rid of the factory alloy (8Jx18 style 237; about 35lbs each) and the heavy RFT.

However, the car is obviously more bumpy going form 18" to 19". The difference is NOT substantial, but still significant enough to be noticeable. The sidewall of the RFT is stiffer than usual, but the same can be said to any low profile tire. So going from 18" RFT to 19" non-RFT (while maintaining the overall size) will certainly offset a certain degree of benefit in terms of ride quality. Whoever tells that you the car will ride just as smooth on 20" because the RFT is now gone, is outright BSing.

Another obvious change is the noise. The lighter front wheels can now move up and down more quickly and the car is slightly less boat-like, but it also makes more noise. This is most obvious when the car continuously rolls over small regularities when high frequency vertical wheel travel is required to avoid vibration/movement being transferred to the car's chassis.

The most apparent benefit of the tire/wheel change is the traction gain at the rear. The factory 245 rear rubber was obviously incapable to handle the engine output. Even on dry road, the car would frequently break traction launching at full-throttle, and it's much worse at corner-exit. The 275 rubber allows the car to launch nicely, and make more use of the engine power during aggressive driving.

But then I am not going to lower my car. I plan to keep the car for a long time, say 5 years at least. A harder suspension setting will slowly but surely deteriorate the chassis rigidity few years down the road. You all know how it is; annoying squeaky interior panels and chassis twisting sound that can't be fixed. I plan to let the suspension to take all the beating, and the shitty road conditions here in Hong Kong will ensure endless supply of that.

So my F10 will have wheel gaps so big that it looks like the car is ready to go offroad lol. But when i push the car, i will have the peace of mind that the wheel alloy won't bend going over harsh road conditions. The F10 is heavy, we're talking about a thousand pound of pressure over a small contact patch. I don't wanna be worrying about the suspension or wheels when i want to drive aggressively regardless of where i am. And let's face it, no matter how we mod the F10, it will not corner nearly as fast as a sports car, not even a cheap one but 1,000kg lighter.

So this is my take on the F10 "lower it" consideration. I might want bigger anti-sway bars to do away the understeering/body-roll, but i am not lowering my ride. It's beautiful and classy as it is.

I went from 19" 245/40/19 Michelin RFTs front and 275/35/19 rear to 245/35/20 Michelin PS2s front and 285/30/20 rear. I also lowered my 550i with RD springs. The ride is MUCH smoother than with the RFTs. No BSing here. The sidewalls on the PS2's are much softer --- one of the best tires out there. You'd have to experience it before you knock it. I could never go back to the soft, SUV like OEM springs.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 10:37 AM   #16
dyip99
Private First Class
Hong Kong
7
Rep
192
Posts

Drives: BMW F82 M4
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinfast View Post
I went from 19" 245/40/19 Michelin RFTs front and 275/35/19 rear to 245/35/20 Michelin PS2s front and 285/30/20 rear. I also lowered my 550i with RD springs. The ride is MUCH smoother than with the RFTs. No BSing here. The sidewalls on the PS2's are much softer --- one of the best tires out there. You'd have to experience it before you knock it. I could never go back to the soft, SUV like OEM springs.
Agree, try before you knock is the way to go.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 11:35 AM   #17
grimlock
Colonel
716
Rep
2,003
Posts

Drives: F10 N52B30@255PS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlai View Post
Sealobo,
Sorry, I was one of the BSing ones Maybe I should go get my testing equipment (my butt) calibrated

Or I am just getting senile on the sensitvity department.

Quick question though, what tyres do you have on the 19"? Some tyres have much stiffer sidewalls than others (Michellin PS2 has very SOFT sidewalls) and that will affect ride quality as well......
Yeah, maybe softer tires on 20 feel better than harder ones on a 19 .. i got THE softest ones i know about Conti DW on the rear.. Pzero Neros on the front and i 'think' i can feel the difference between the two going over bumps (ok maybe not..)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sealobo View Post
I didn't put the old/new wheels on scale to get the precise weight difference; i only lifted them up during installation. The front was quite obvious, the rear wasn't so much due to the width increase.
I weighed them, but not accurately .. about 58-9lbs for 17+pirelli runflat
i dont know the exact oem rim weight, but the rft about 34-5..
i save 10lbs on the tires front and rear EACH .. but my rims are heavy ass +4.5lbs over stock each
if i wanted to save weight, there were a cheap pair of powder grey 19's, forgot what brand, on tirerack.. only 18lbs each
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 11:39 AM   #18
RyanS
Private
United_States
12
Rep
83
Posts

Drives: '11 535xi M-Sport
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX

iTrader: (0)

Would like to see some more pics of your car with those wheels...please!
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2011, 11:42 AM   #19
grimlock
Colonel
716
Rep
2,003
Posts

Drives: F10 N52B30@255PS
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Haven't tried PS2.. but i thought the DW's sidewalls were going to rip in my hands when i was lifting the tire.. i kid u not..

I saw a nice looking 7 series.. the wheelgap was much/noticeably less than on mine, which looked like it had grown since last time (or maybe reading too many 'look, i just slammed my car!" threads). I have to admit the 7 doeslook better than the 5, objectively, except for mine.. which means im incredibly biased or not making any sense at all

I know my rims are made in germany because i emailed a german dude and the box said 'from germany', and the rims said 'made in germany' .. ok enough
Appreciate 0
      05-08-2011, 04:00 AM   #20
xero200
New Member
Malaysia
2
Rep
10
Posts

Drives: BMW F10 535i
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

iTrader: (0)

I hear a lot of you guys install R&D & H&R, but what about Eibach? Any popular in HK?
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2011, 09:07 AM   #21
pyramid
Private First Class
Indonesia
4
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: Serpent S966
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: INA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Various Various  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sealobo View Post
So going from 18" RFT to 19" non-RFT (while maintaining the overall size) will certainly offset a certain degree of benefit in terms of ride quality. Whoever tells that you the car will ride just as smooth on 20" because the RFT is now gone, is outright BSing.
Man... I should have keep looking for 18"/19" after reading this .
But if I live in Hongkong, I'm sure to go 20" as the road is a lot better than Indonesia.

Cannot stand the look of 327 17" wheels that came standard on my AW 528i, could not find any 19" that I like yet, went with 312 ferric grey that is still on the way. Now confuse again as I prefer comfort rather than performance on this car.

Anyone still have their 18" style 237, 328, or perhaps 350m would like to get rid of? Let me know. I can do local sales and payment in Hongkong.
Appreciate 0
      05-22-2011, 09:50 AM   #22
rurujojo
New Member
Hong Kong
5
Rep
27
Posts

Drives: 535
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Hong Kong

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyramid View Post
Man... I should have keep looking for 18"/19" after reading this .
But if I live in Hongkong, I'm sure to go 20" as the road is a lot better than Indonesia.

Cannot stand the look of 327 17" wheels that came standard on my AW 528i, could not find any 19" that I like yet, went with 312 ferric grey that is still on the way. Now confuse again as I prefer comfort rather than performance on this car.

Anyone still have their 18" style 237, 328, or perhaps 350m would like to get rid of? Let me know. I can do local sales and payment in Hongkong.
hi dude, i have one set of 18" style 237 with OEM RFT ~6 kilometre distance, but there is a 1 inch scratch over right front rim. if you are interested, you can send me pm. i will trade-in my rims for new 19" in coming future.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST