Sway bar question

berserkerx · 02-27-2011, 05:31 PM

So I am thinking of buying some sway bars for my 330i. As I was looking around I noticed that the H&R front sway is only .5 mm bigger than the stock one. The rear one is a lot larger than stock but would you notice a difference from such a small increase?

Then the other question is the Hotchkis is much larger than either would getting a front Hotchkis and a rear H&R be too stiff and rough of a ride for the car?

Also since I plan on buying Coilovers soon would the sways still be worth the money?

Sorry I am a total newb when it comes to suspension

Thanks in advance for any info!

yerv818 · 02-27-2011, 07:22 PM

i promise u u wnt regret it ...its a great mod..im addicted to driving ever since i got my rear h&r sway installed...my car handles much more composed in the twisties with the new sway

berserkerx · 02-27-2011, 08:43 PM

Thats good to hear. I just dont want it to be too stiff with a 32mm front sway. I might go with the m3 rear because its cheaper than an H&R.

berserkerx · 02-27-2011, 09:31 PM

Also is the extra money to go with the Bilstein pss10s worth it over the pss9s?

e90pilot · 02-28-2011, 01:26 AM

There's one minor thing about sway bars you should be aware of. Sway bars work by trying to lift the inside tire off the ground. If you drive up or down steep driveways at an angle (which you will unless you want to scrape the nose) the sway bar actually does lift the tire off the ground. Since you have an open diff, you will get stuck if you don't carry enough momentum. It's mildly annoying but not too bad if you just keep it in mind.

yerv818 · 02-28-2011, 01:43 AM

ive never had this prob and im about 2 inches off the ground

e90pilot · 02-28-2011, 01:52 AM

Um... Ride hight has nothing to do with it. I'll take a picture tomorrow morning of exactly what I'm talking about. It's not that big an issue, it's just a little annoying.

berserkerx · 02-28-2011, 02:42 AM

Okay thanks for the reply. A picture would really help with your explanation. I got the rear M3 sway for now. Does this problem become more pronounced with a bigger/stiffer sway bar?

John_01 · 02-28-2011, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berserkerx

So I am thinking of buying some sway bars for my 330i. As I was looking around I noticed that the H&R front sway is only .5 mm bigger than the stock one. The rear one is a lot larger than stock but would you notice a difference from such a small increase?

Then the other question is the Hotchkis is much larger than either would getting a front Hotchkis and a rear H&R be too stiff and rough of a ride for the car?

I think the hotchkis sways are hollow. Also the stock (non-zsp) front sway bar has a centre section with reduced thickness, so its not as stiff as the size suggests. Its important that front and rear sway bars are matched because they need to work together.

Stuart@BMRAutowerkes · 02-28-2011, 05:13 AM

read all the reviews you can before pulling the trigger.

what are you trying to achieve anyway, more neutral handling, less understeery?

I've already made up my mind on the UUC for their size and feedback from other members. I'm after a less understeery setup.

brocklanders · 02-28-2011, 07:39 AM

also no one has mentioned, it could cost you up to four hours of labor to install just the rear sway. that is more then the bar itself cost.

Transport3r · 02-28-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90pilot

Since you have an open diff, you will get stuck if you don't carry enough momentum. It's mildly annoying but not too bad if you just keep it in mind.

Leave traction control on?

e90pilot · 02-28-2011, 01:39 PM

Traction control is designed to work when both wheels are on the ground. It doesn't work too well when one's up in there like so:

I could grab the roof of the car and rock it back and forth on the left front and right rear wheels.

yerv818 · 02-28-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90pilot

Traction control is designed to work when both wheels are on the ground. It doesn't work too well when one's up in there like so:

I could grab the roof of the car and rock it back and forth on the left front and right rear wheels.

wtf lool never noticed that ...ya that is annoying lol

brocklanders · 02-28-2011, 03:53 PM

my driveway is not so steep, but i have noticed when i jack up my car now the whole side comes off the ground no matter if i use the front or rear jack pad.

pits200 · 02-28-2011, 05:57 PM

Thanks for that picture. It shows the principle of an overly stiff rear sway. Your rear tire is more than likely never going to lift off the ground like in that picture when driving. But it does show how you will have a reduced contact patch with one or the other rear tires while making a sharp turn at speed.

Sways definitely give the feel that the car is more planted when in actuality that isn't completely true.

The HACK · 02-28-2011, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pits200

Your rear tire is more than likely never going to lift off the ground like in that picture when driving.

Actually it is quite common in spirited driving to lift up one wheel when the swaybars are set too stiff.

pits200 · 02-28-2011, 07:45 PM

I suppose I didn't clarify with my comment. I meant that won't typically happen with road driving while taking a turn.

But that is a pretty awesome picture that you posted!

berserkerx · 02-28-2011, 07:48 PM

Thanks for the pictures guys. I don't want it to be all to stiff but I just want a more solid feel to the car and a more engaging drive. It will still be a daily so I dont want it to be murderously stiff. I am wanting something to compliment the car once I get coilovers.

I am just hoping its not that stiff. The eibach just doesn't seem like it would give me what I am looking for with only .5mm bigger but I could be wrong.

thanks again for the replies I really don't know how to explain what I am looking for other than just a nice solid feel and to make taking a corner feel the way a BMW should feel.

brocklanders · 02-28-2011, 08:13 PM

i think i can relate to what you are saying, i was in a similar situation about four months ago. i do not track my car and like the way it feels, but wanted to improve the driving experience. so i decided to revamp the suspension. after many hours of searching and reading new and old post, i decided to get eibach sportline springs, eibach sway bars, m3 tension struts, m3 subframe bushings, bmw strut brace and bmw short shifter. i chose these products because they are not adjustable and they are not extreme, the car looks and drives like it could have come that way from the factory, but the improvements made me love my car again. the rear sway is only 2mm different but when the original was 13mm that is huge, and paired with the front it keeps the bias nearly the same as the bmw engineers found acceptable. actually the eibach front is 28mm and the rear is 15mm, i dont know where you got .5. also the stock front is thinner in the middle, if im not mistaken h&r is 27mm, even so it is considerably stiffer then stock due to fact that its a solid 27mm all the way across.

yerv818 · 02-28-2011, 09:45 PM

i do not track my car either and after getting my new suspension i still felt there was a little room for improvement so i went ahead and ordered the h&r rear sway and it might have made as much of a difference as getting my new suspension in the twisties ..if u ask me sways are a must if u want to be able to take hard corners and blow through turns...if ur looking to make ur car handle better and uve already upgraded ur suspension the sways are like the icing on the cake..100% recommended

berserkerx · 02-28-2011, 11:50 PM

Sorry I was mixed up. It is the H&R that is only .5mm larger than front. I really am just looking for a nice setup to make it feel like should.

I broke down today and ordered the M3 rear sway and a front strut bar. So I guess now the main question is what are people recommendations on the front sway? I saw a lot of people recommend the M3 for the rear because of the price.

Is there not a rear strut/stress brace for the e90?

02-27-2011, 05:31 PM	#1
berserkerx Private First Class 8 Rep 164 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Utah iTrader: (0)	Sway bar question So I am thinking of buying some sway bars for my 330i. As I was looking around I noticed that the H&R front sway is only .5 mm bigger than the stock one. The rear one is a lot larger than stock but would you notice a difference from such a small increase? Then the other question is the Hotchkis is much larger than either would getting a front Hotchkis and a rear H&R be too stiff and rough of a ride for the car? Also since I plan on buying Coilovers soon would the sways still be worth the money? Sorry I am a total newb when it comes to suspension Thanks in advance for any info!
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02-27-2011, 07:22 PM	#2
yerv818 Lieutenant 19 Rep 425 Posts Drives: 2010 blk/red 328 sedan Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: la crescenta CA iTrader: (2)	i promise u u wnt regret it ...its a great mod..im addicted to driving ever since i got my rear h&r sway installed...my car handles much more composed in the twisties with the new sway __________________ BMX powerbox/H&R RACE springs/eibach pro dampers/H&R sways/cyba scoops/k&n drop in/blk grille/blk reflectors/19in LUXE CSL rep/hamman cf lip
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02-27-2011, 08:43 PM	#3
berserkerx Private First Class 8 Rep 164 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Utah iTrader: (0)	Thats good to hear. I just dont want it to be too stiff with a 32mm front sway. I might go with the m3 rear because its cheaper than an H&R.
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02-27-2011, 09:31 PM	#4
berserkerx Private First Class 8 Rep 164 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Utah iTrader: (0)	Also is the extra money to go with the Bilstein pss10s worth it over the pss9s?
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02-28-2011, 01:26 AM	#5
e90pilot Freight Dawg 104 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	There's one minor thing about sway bars you should be aware of. Sway bars work by trying to lift the inside tire off the ground. If you drive up or down steep driveways at an angle (which you will unless you want to scrape the nose) the sway bar actually does lift the tire off the ground. Since you have an open diff, you will get stuck if you don't carry enough momentum. It's mildly annoying but not too bad if you just keep it in mind. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
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02-28-2011, 01:43 AM	#6
yerv818 Lieutenant 19 Rep 425 Posts Drives: 2010 blk/red 328 sedan Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: la crescenta CA iTrader: (2)	ive never had this prob and im about 2 inches off the ground __________________ BMX powerbox/H&R RACE springs/eibach pro dampers/H&R sways/cyba scoops/k&n drop in/blk grille/blk reflectors/19in LUXE CSL rep/hamman cf lip
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02-28-2011, 01:52 AM	#7
e90pilot Freight Dawg 104 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	Um... Ride hight has nothing to do with it. I'll take a picture tomorrow morning of exactly what I'm talking about. It's not that big an issue, it's just a little annoying. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
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02-28-2011, 02:42 AM	#8
berserkerx Private First Class 8 Rep 164 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Utah iTrader: (0)	Okay thanks for the reply. A picture would really help with your explanation. I got the rear M3 sway for now. Does this problem become more pronounced with a bigger/stiffer sway bar?
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02-28-2011, 05:13 AM	#10
Stuart@BMRAutowerkes Major General 808 Rep 5,530 Posts Drives: a black car Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Sydney iTrader: (3)	read all the reviews you can before pulling the trigger. what are you trying to achieve anyway, more neutral handling, less understeery? I've already made up my mind on the UUC for their size and feedback from other members. I'm after a less understeery setup.
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02-28-2011, 07:39 AM	#11
brocklanders Major 106 Rep 1,428 Posts Drives: the uno, mineral white Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: houston iTrader: (3) Garage List 06 325 [0.00]	also no one has mentioned, it could cost you up to four hours of labor to install just the rear sway. that is more then the bar itself cost.
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02-28-2011, 01:39 PM	#13
e90pilot Freight Dawg 104 Rep 2,103 Posts Drives: E90 325i Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Oakland, CA iTrader: (3)	Traction control is designed to work when both wheels are on the ground. It doesn't work too well when one's up in there like so: I could grab the roof of the car and rock it back and forth on the left front and right rear wheels. __________________ --Marcelo '06 Arctic Metallic 325i \| Sport Package \| 6MT \| Dinan Stage III suspension \| Dinan exhaust \| 330i manifold swap! Click here! \| Active Autowerke tune \| 135i Brake Calipers \| Deiselboost caliper brackets \| E46 M3 front rotors
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02-28-2011, 03:53 PM	#15
brocklanders Major 106 Rep 1,428 Posts Drives: the uno, mineral white Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: houston iTrader: (3) Garage List 06 325 [0.00]	my driveway is not so steep, but i have noticed when i jack up my car now the whole side comes off the ground no matter if i use the front or rear jack pad.
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02-28-2011, 05:57 PM	#16
pits200 Colonel 547 Rep 2,590 Posts Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pittsburgh iTrader: (1)	Thanks for that picture. It shows the principle of an overly stiff rear sway. Your rear tire is more than likely never going to lift off the ground like in that picture when driving. But it does show how you will have a reduced contact patch with one or the other rear tires while making a sharp turn at speed. Sways definitely give the feel that the car is more planted when in actuality that isn't completely true.
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02-28-2011, 07:45 PM	#18
pits200 Colonel 547 Rep 2,590 Posts Drives: 09 335i X-Drive Black Sapphire Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pittsburgh iTrader: (1)	I suppose I didn't clarify with my comment. I meant that won't typically happen with road driving while taking a turn. But that is a pretty awesome picture that you posted!
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02-28-2011, 07:48 PM	#19
berserkerx Private First Class 8 Rep 164 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Utah iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the pictures guys. I don't want it to be all to stiff but I just want a more solid feel to the car and a more engaging drive. It will still be a daily so I dont want it to be murderously stiff. I am wanting something to compliment the car once I get coilovers. I am just hoping its not that stiff. The eibach just doesn't seem like it would give me what I am looking for with only .5mm bigger but I could be wrong. thanks again for the replies I really don't know how to explain what I am looking for other than just a nice solid feel and to make taking a corner feel the way a BMW should feel.
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02-28-2011, 08:13 PM	#20
brocklanders Major 106 Rep 1,428 Posts Drives: the uno, mineral white Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: houston iTrader: (3) Garage List 06 325 [0.00]	i think i can relate to what you are saying, i was in a similar situation about four months ago. i do not track my car and like the way it feels, but wanted to improve the driving experience. so i decided to revamp the suspension. after many hours of searching and reading new and old post, i decided to get eibach sportline springs, eibach sway bars, m3 tension struts, m3 subframe bushings, bmw strut brace and bmw short shifter. i chose these products because they are not adjustable and they are not extreme, the car looks and drives like it could have come that way from the factory, but the improvements made me love my car again. the rear sway is only 2mm different but when the original was 13mm that is huge, and paired with the front it keeps the bias nearly the same as the bmw engineers found acceptable. actually the eibach front is 28mm and the rear is 15mm, i dont know where you got .5. also the stock front is thinner in the middle, if im not mistaken h&r is 27mm, even so it is considerably stiffer then stock due to fact that its a solid 27mm all the way across.
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02-28-2011, 09:45 PM	#21
yerv818 Lieutenant 19 Rep 425 Posts Drives: 2010 blk/red 328 sedan Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: la crescenta CA iTrader: (2)	i do not track my car either and after getting my new suspension i still felt there was a little room for improvement so i went ahead and ordered the h&r rear sway and it might have made as much of a difference as getting my new suspension in the twisties ..if u ask me sways are a must if u want to be able to take hard corners and blow through turns...if ur looking to make ur car handle better and uve already upgraded ur suspension the sways are like the icing on the cake..100% recommended __________________ BMX powerbox/H&R RACE springs/eibach pro dampers/H&R sways/cyba scoops/k&n drop in/blk grille/blk reflectors/19in LUXE CSL rep/hamman cf lip
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02-28-2011, 11:50 PM	#22
berserkerx Private First Class 8 Rep 164 Posts Drives: 2006 330i Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Utah iTrader: (0)	Sorry I was mixed up. It is the H&R that is only .5mm larger than front. I really am just looking for a nice setup to make it feel like should. I broke down today and ordered the M3 rear sway and a front strut bar. So I guess now the main question is what are people recommendations on the front sway? I saw a lot of people recommend the M3 for the rear because of the price. Is there not a rear strut/stress brace for the e90?
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