[Tareq_328xi]

Hey All!

I am just wondering if anyone in Toronto, near Yonge & 401, is willing to go out with me for a spin. I have had my car, first 6MT, for a month now, but still can not perfect "downshifting". If anyone is willing to teach my how to perfect driving a stick, please let me know, I would really appreciate it!!

Thanks!

[miniritz]

do you mean just rev matching while downshifting?

or heel toe? slightly more difficult because you have to brake and gas at the same time. which i must say is very easy with our e90 pedal positions.

i don't think anyone would want to sit with you while you experiment with these. lol i know my wife will vouch for that, it gets pretty jerky until you've got the timing down and it becomes second nature.

just practice!

[Undies]

heal and toe was less difficult on my s2000 cause of pedal position...but this is "mainly" applicable for turns.

downshifting is good to get to a gear in a power band, but our cars has power pretty much anywhere, and to slow down and use less braking.

tip - when you down shift, blipping the throttle requires you to put the gas pedal all the way down only for a split second and you let go....but do not let go fully, let go to the point where the rev matches the gear you select.

good luck!

[CarbonTT]

rev matching is the best bet for this car.. which btw is also very simple

[NiceAndSlow]

Originally Posted by Tareq_328xi

Hey All!

I am just wondering if anyone in Toronto, near Yonge & 401, is willing to go out with me for a spin. I have had my car, first 6MT, for a month now, but still can not perfect "downshifting". If anyone is willing to teach my how to perfect driving a stick, please let me know, I would really appreciate it!!

Thanks!

Toe and heel is not for everyday driving bro .. just rev match if u are not stopping at a light or stop sign... how are you doing it now?

clutch down, brake (if needed), blip gas throttle, down shift and release cluth, gas

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Undies

heal and toe was less difficult on my s2000 cause of pedal position...but this is "mainly" applicable for turns.

downshifting is good to get to a gear in a power band, but our cars has power pretty much anywhere, and to slow down and use less braking.

tip - when you down shift, blipping the throttle requires you to put the gas pedal all the way down only for a split second and you let go....but do not let go fully, let go to the point where the rev matches the gear you select.

good luck!

Don't follow these instructions....................
First of all you shuold do all your shifting in a straight line.

[Tareq_328xi]

Sorry I wasnt clear enough, I dont necessarily mean heal & toe, I just need to perfect how to downshift (when traffic slows down on the highway for example) without jerking the car violently. It is getting better since I got the car, but not as smooth as I would like it to be.

Originally Posted by NiceAndSlow

Toe and heel is not for everyday driving bro .. just rev match if u are not stopping at a light or stop sign... how are you doing it now?

clutch down, brake (if needed), blip gas throttle, down shift and release cluth, gas

That is what I do currently, but I think I dont blip the throttle high enough. I will try Undies's suggestion.



Leaker ,, what is you concern regarding Undies's suggestion?

[bolty]

Originally Posted by Tareq_328xi

Sorry I wasnt clear enough, I dont necessarily mean heal & toe, I just need to perfect how to downshift (when traffic slows down on the highway for example) without jerking the car violently. It is getting better since I got the car, but not as smooth as I would like it to be.




That is what I do currently, but I think I dont blip the throttle high enough. I will try Undies's suggestion.



Leaker ,, what is you concern regarding Undies's suggestion?

If youre not blipping the gas enough, then just push a little more?? But dont floor it. I'd imagine you'd easily hit the rev limiter while in neutral.

Its good that you want to start off properly. But its still going to take a ton of practice to get a feel for it.

Good luck.

[Undies]

Originally Posted by Tareq_328xi

Sorry I wasnt clear enough, I dont necessarily mean heal & toe, I just need to perfect how to downshift (when traffic slows down on the highway for example) without jerking the car violently. It is getting better since I got the car, but not as smooth as I would like it to be.




That is what I do currently, but I think I dont blip the throttle high enough. I will try Undies's suggestion.



Leaker ,, what is you concern regarding Undies's suggestion?

Leaker - straightline? like 6-5-4-3-2-1-? i didn't say otherwise?

look, i don't know who leaker is but my credentials were acquired at mosport. I know how to downshift. some people might tell you to let teh clutch do all the work without rev matching - this is wrong. you want a downshift similar to an automatic car - the beauty is, if you are good, manuals are smoother than autos (not smg or dct tho).

Understand that the reaction time of the revs vs your foot results in some lag. your foot can be fully down, but the revs are on the upswing. This is why, when I told you to stomp the gas all the way down but LITERALLY for LESS than .5 seconds. this is mostly for downshifting to second gear. for any other gear, you are looking at a blip at 80% of the throttle.The revs will not go to red line, believe me.

when the car is in gear and you are cruising at lets say 3000rpm, the gas pedal is automatically positioned at 30% (feel this with your foot). This will give you an idea of how hard to blip the throttle to attain your rev match of your lower gear. Blipping is a term used to allow the revs to ride up on an upswing by quickly hitting the gas pedal (and also letting it go just as fast) and let the revs ride upwards. sit there in neatrual, and familiarize yourself with the characteristics of your throttle and rev response by playing with your gas pedal.


Example – assume you are crusing on 4th at 3000rpm, but your 3rd gear requires 4200rpm.
Step 1 – engaged in 4th gear
Step 2 – clutch in
Step 4/5 – blip the throttle aiming for 4200rpm/select gear 3
Step 6 – let go of clutch at 4200.
*as a beginner, blip the throttle harder, let it go past 4200, this gives you more time to do step 2-6 (which as you get better should all happen at the same time). The revs will go past 4200 to lets say 4600 and learn to catch it on the downswing – this will result in a less smooth transition. But until you can do step 2-6 in lightning speed and catch it on the upswing, try catching it on the downswing first.

[335isGuy]

If you want. I can meet you. I taught a few of my students at our bmw schools. But better for spring time though.

[Photosapiens]

1. Clutch in

2. Give enough gas
- you should really learn how enough is enough, every car has different feels

3. Downshift to lower gear (I do step 3 almost simultaneously with step 2)

4. smoothly release clutch
- releasing clutch is the key to downshift smoothly, assuming you gave enough gas.
you should release linearly not so fast not so slow.

My advice is that you just practice everyday in straight line and you will find you
get used to it.

Once you master smooth downshifting, you can then learn how to do heel & toe.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Tareq_328xi

Sorry I wasnt clear enough, I dont necessarily mean heal & toe, I just need to perfect how to downshift (when traffic slows down on the highway for example) without jerking the car violently. It is getting better since I got the car, but not as smooth as I would like it to be.




That is what I do currently, but I think I dont blip the throttle high enough. I will try Undies's suggestion.



Leaker ,, what is you concern regarding Undies's suggestion?

He was telling the guy that he should be heel and toeing in a corner? Thats pretty advanced and called trail braking. If the revs arent matched perfectly youll spin. They didnt teach him that at Mosport. He then says put foot to the floor to get the revs up....that will be a problem. Everyone has the right idea obviously but flooring the gas pedal wont work.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Undies

Leaker - straightline? like 6-5-4-3-2-1-? i didn't say otherwise?

look, i don't know who leaker is but my credentials were acquired at mosport. I know how to downshift. some people might tell you to let teh clutch do all the work without rev matching - this is wrong. you want a downshift similar to an automatic car - the beauty is, if you are good, manuals are smoother than autos (not smg or dct tho).

Understand that the reaction time of the revs vs your foot results in some lag. your foot can be fully down, but the revs are on the upswing. This is why, when I told you to stomp the gas all the way down but LITERALLY for LESS than .5 seconds. this is mostly for downshifting to second gear. for any other gear, you are looking at a blip at 80% of the throttle.The revs will not go to red line, believe me.

when the car is in gear and you are cruising at lets say 3000rpm, the gas pedal is automatically positioned at 30% (feel this with your foot). This will give you an idea of how hard to blip the throttle to attain your rev match of your lower gear. Blipping is a term used to allow the revs to ride up on an upswing by quickly hitting the gas pedal (and also letting it go just as fast) and let the revs ride upwards. sit there in neatrual, and familiarize yourself with the characteristics of your throttle and rev response by playing with your gas pedal.


Example – assume you are crusing on 4th at 3000rpm, but your 3rd gear requires 4200rpm.
Step 1 – engaged in 4th gear
Step 2 – clutch in
Step 4/5 – blip the throttle aiming for 4200rpm/select gear 3
Step 6 – let go of clutch at 4200.
*as a beginner, blip the throttle harder, let it go past 4200, this gives you more time to do step 2-6 (which as you get better should all happen at the same time). The revs will go past 4200 to lets say 4600 and learn to catch it on the downswing – this will result in a less smooth transition. But until you can do step 2-6 in lightning speed and catch it on the upswing, try catching it on the downswing first.

You can go down or skip as many gears as you want (4th-2nd like at 5a Mosport) , it just makes it more difficult ....but more fun.
If you are doing it properly your shifts should be seamless and as good as dct etc. Most of mine are. THATS the whole idea. Some New auto trans match revs but old ones don't. I've been doing this for 35 years.

[MaximusJ]

Once you get all that in your head, the best way to practice is to go at 80 in 3rd speed and then keep your speed at 80, but go 3-4-3-2-3-4-3-2... until you get NO shuttering at all. It works within minutes; even for a total noob like I was 6 months ago.

[Undies]

Originally Posted by Leaker

He was telling the guy that he should be heel and toeing in a corner? Thats pretty advanced and called trail braking. If the revs arent matched perfectly youll spin. They didnt teach him that at Mosport. He then says put foot to the floor to get the revs up....that will be a problem. Everyone has the right idea obviously but flooring the gas pedal wont work.

i did not say heal and toe, nor did i say to plant the gas pedal on the floor, and all i spoke about was how to simple rev match. if your gas pedal doesn't touch the ground for at least a split second from 4th gear - to lets say 2nd gear...then there is no way you can get the revs that high for a smooth downshift.

[2kaccordocoupe]

Step #1 - Remove your CDV (Clutch Delay Valve) It makes a day and night difference.

Once you do that I'm willing to bet that you will see an instant improvement in your shifting.

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by 2kaccordocoupe

Step #1 - Remove your CDV (Clutch Delay Valve) It makes a day and night difference.

Once you do that I'm willing to bet that you will see an instant improvement in your shifting.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by 2kaccordocoupe

Step #1 - Remove your CDV (Clutch Delay Valve) It makes a day and night difference.

Once you do that I'm willing to bet that you will see an instant improvement in your shifting.

What does the cdv do?

[2kaccordocoupe]

Originally Posted by Leaker

What does the cdv do?

It's basically a piece of plastic which slows down the rush of fluid to engage the clutch. This slow down causes your clutch to 'ride' and engage a lot slower. It was put in so that noobs don't dump the clutch and cause a sudden shock to the driveline.

It's a DIY to remove.
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29828

[Tareq_328xi]

Originally Posted by Undies

tip - when you down shift, blipping the throttle requires you to put the gas pedal all the way down only for a split second and you let go....but do not let go fully, let go to the point where the rev matches the gear you select.

good luck!

Sorry for the late reply,,,

I would like to thank ALL of you for your helpful tips, however, special thanks to Undies for his tip above. I did exactly what he said all weekend and my downshifting became a lot smoother
Now, I have to practice executing the shift faster, that's all

I am not sure how much gas I'll be burning revving the engine on every downshift, but at the end it's cheaper than stressing the clutch/transmission.


Thanks again!

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Tareq_328xi

Sorry for the late reply,,,

I would like to thank ALL of you for your helpful tips, however, special thanks to Undies for his tip above. I did exactly what he said all weekend and my downshifting became a lot smoother
Now, I have to practice executing the shift faster, that's all

I am not sure how much gas I'll be burning revving the engine on every downshift, but at the end it's cheaper than stressing the clutch/transmission.


Thanks again!

And WAY more fun!

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Undies

i did not say heal and toe, nor did i say to plant the gas pedal on the floor, and all i spoke about was how to simple rev match. if your gas pedal doesn't touch the ground for at least a split second from 4th gear - to lets say 2nd gear...then there is no way you can get the revs that high for a smooth downshift.

You did say to put foot to floor..........
If youre going from 4th to second you should be doing some braking at the same time unless youre going really slowly.