[Thussy]

Hey all,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I've been looking at 2008 335i w/ 6spd Manual and < 50,000KM in Ontario and I'm having a hard time justifying the price difference between CPO and regular used. Based on what's available right now in CPO inventory vs what's available at regular used car dealers, there seems to be a ~15% premium and the BMW financing rates for 2008 Coupes are ~5%. I would prefer having the CPO warranty, but I'm not sure if it's worth the additional costs.

Those with 2007 335s, how "reliable"/expensive has the car been outside of warranty? If I buy a 2008, I would have about 1yr of factory warranty left.

Are there any tips anyone can offer on buying a used BMW in Ontario? I would assume now is the best time as I can imagine RWD, snow, cold weather, and post-Christmas holiday credit card bills would lead to slower sales.

The last time I bought a car was in Jan 2003, and it was my 2001 Volvo S60 T5. It was black on black leather, 5spd manual, 30,000 KM, with an extended warranty (Volvo's version of CPO). I was able to leave the dealership with winter tires included and $5K off the sticker price (which was slightly higher than the wholesale auction price). Is it reasonable to assume this sort of discount is possible at BMW dealerships?

I'm a little hesitant on making the dive as there seems to be some odd price discrepancies - used 335s in the US vs Canada, and then CPO vs regular dealers. I just don't know what a well-optioned (all but nav) 335 coupe should be going for.

Any info would be appreciated (wholesale prices, recent purchases you're aware of, bargaining room at dealers)!

Thanks!

[BenTrovato]

Going CPO depends on how much you care about maintenance costs down the road. Whether the car turns out to be a lemon has nothing to do with other people's experiences here. Some people never have problems, some people always have problems. If the premium is worth piece of mind to you, get CPO. If you don't mind taking the risk and saving the cash go that route.

How reliable a car is after warranty has a lot to do with how someone drives it and maintains it. I would think it's hard for people who don't know your habits to make that decision for you - only you would know best.

[2kaccordocoupe]

Originally Posted by BenTrovato

Going CPO depends on how much you care about maintenance costs down the road. Whether the car turns out to be a lemon has nothing to do with other people's experiences here. Some people never have problems, some people always have problems. If the premium is worth piece of mind to you, get CPO. If you don't mind taking the risk and saving the cash go that route.

How reliable a car is after warranty has a lot to do with how someone drives it and maintains it. I would think it's hard for people who don't know your habits to make that decision for you - only you would know best.

Well said.

[tony20009]

My recommendation is to buy a 2010 or 2009 335i. The one you find that is within your budget may not have all the bells and whistles on it, but it'll drive the same and it comes equipped with all the things one really needs.

That way, you'll have quite a few years left on your warranty and you could extend it if you wanted to. In my opinion, buying a used car makes a lot of financial sense, so I understand why you would do so. However, a used car -- I'm assuming you are making the purchase to buy a primary vehicle -- is generally not one's dream car, but rather one that should function well and for a long time and basically, "get the job done." The newer the vehicle and the lower the miles, the better off you'll be in the long term.

Good luck.

[Rossland]

A good website to find used cars in Buffalo ( including BMWs) is

www.carsforcanadians.com/

Good luck. You will save big bucks by shopping in the US

[Thussy]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I used to be a more punishing driver and did have the mod bug - intake, exhaust, suspension pieces, tune (to ~320HP), swap to 6spd manual, etc. I learned over the years that it turns into a chain reaction in spending, at least with the Volvo.

But these days I'm more sedated with the odd on-ramp sprint.

I went to the BMW Innovation Drive this year and I was blown away by the 135i in terms of raw performance. But the size, and slightly more upscale interior of the 335i seemed to be a better everyday experience.

I understand the argument for going with a newer car, but it is cost prohibitive and it's actually really hard to find E92s from 2009. Right now, there are 3 available between Kijiji and Trader.ca that are with manuals - and all are north of $46K and either have 60,000KM+ or no options at all. People rarely let go of the E92 early. 2008s are coming off lease right now and there seems to be more of a selection.

[E92LNGCGY]

How much are you willing to spend? I've got a 2009 AW with all options except Nav, 6sp, Dinan stage 2 and only 3500 kms that I will sell if price is right. Warranty till June 2013 and includes the BMW maintenance program.

[kol]

something to also weigh in - are you going to be financing or buying out right?

cause if you are financing, BMW offers much better fianance rates - so at the end of 4-5 years, you are essentially paying the same as a "used car dealer"

ie. $30K at dealer @4.9% vs $27.5K at used car @6.9%...the 2% difference in rates will balance out the $2500 savings up front.

[jasonintoronto]

Originally Posted by BenTrovato

Going CPO depends on how much you care about maintenance costs down the road. Whether the car turns out to be a lemon has nothing to do with other people's experiences here. Some people never have problems, some people always have problems. If the premium is worth piece of mind to you, get CPO. If you don't mind taking the risk and saving the cash go that route.

How reliable a car is after warranty has a lot to do with how someone drives it and maintains it. I would think it's hard for people who don't know your habits to make that decision for you - only you would know best.

ditto - very well said. this is more of a personal risk tolerance decision than a price optimization strategy

[Thussy]

My risk tolerance traditionally has been pretty high, but predictability as I get older is becoming more important.

@kol - I would be financing, and I've got my spreadsheets all set up to compare the rates. Minimizing long term costs is definitely the goal.

Traditionally, how closely does used pricing match the "Purchase Option at end of lease" price? Looking on LeaseBusters, 335s seem to have a end of lease purchase price in the high 20s. Just wondering if this is used as a signal in anyway to predict prices.

[mabman]

Wow, some very good prices at that website.
http://inventory.towneauto.com/CarDe...=TowneBMW_Used

low miles, cpo'd, all the upgrades and with the 1.5k bonus only 31.5k usd (which is the same cdn) ... can probably get for under 30k

[Thussy]

My current car I bought 2 years used from the dealer and was lucky enough to get 0% financing.

From what I can tell, BMW doesn't offer 0% financing ever. Does anyone have any tips regarding financing? 2008 Coupes at the dealership are being financed at 4.9% (2007 at 2.9, 2009s at 6.49%). There seems to be a considerable premium for coupes over sedans.

[bulldog_yyc]

what about financing at the bank and picking up a car in the US?

[Thussy]

Lowest financing at the bank I've seen is 4.99% variable, or 6.89% fixed.

Re: US - Do American CPO cars warranty apply here? Would CDN banks let you get a bank loan on an US car? On used cars, the price discrepancy isn't as big - low 30s vs mid 30s here, so I figured it isn't worth the extra hassle at the dealership; who could be your best friend or your worst enemy with this car.

[hubble bubble]

As per above, if you are financing most of the cost the lower CPO rate cuts the CPO premium. CPO rates get better the older the car is. Also, repea customers get an extra 0.5% off.

If you look to USA, keep in mind that you will get dinged for GST/HST, 6.1% import tax (for any non-NAFTA car), plus cost of changing speedo, etc to KM and BMW Canada will jack you $1,000-$1,500 for a recall clearance letter than you need in order to register in Canada. CPO and BMW factory warranty should still apply, but free maintenance won't.

I would stay away from any cars at a "used car" dealer. BMW dealers have first shot at buying lease returns and selling them as CPO. Lease returns bought at that dealership are best. Most used dealers buy cars BMW dealers don't want at auction. Used department at another new car dealer can be OK if it was a trade-in on a new car. But your better off with private sales thant "used car" dealers. In my opinion.

[CaptChaos]

Originally Posted by hubble bubble

Also, repea customers get an extra 0.5% off.

I am pretty sure BMW Canada no longer offers the 0.5% discount to repeat customers.

[Thussy]

Do finance rates fluctuate throughout the year for CPO?

Or is 4 year old cars are the lowest, followed by 3, then anything newer is just the standard rate?