[MKE_M3]

For those of you considering a Dinan stage kit, but hesitant due to the super high price (like myself), they have 25% off all suspension stage kits.

I am considering four choices and would appreciate any advice...

1) Dinan Stage 3 (Shocks, Springs, Front Sway, Camber plates)
2) Dinan Stage 2 (Shocks, Springs, Front Sway) and M3 lower control arms for the extra negative camber.
3) Dinan Stage 1 (Shocks, Springs) and M3 front sway + M3 lower control arms
4) Dinan Stage 1 (Shocks, Springs) and just the M3 lower control arms.

M3 stuff would be from HPAutowerks.

[e90pilot]

It's a good deal but for the love of God get the rear sway bar. It's expensive to install but if you're gonna drop the rear subframe anyway for the bushings get the rear bar installed. I'd go with option 2 + rear sway and M3 rear subframe bushings. I also reccomend widening your front wheel tire combo so that there's only 10mm of stagger between the front and rear tires. I bought a set of stock rear wheels and put a 245 tire on it for the front wheels.

If you want to avoid the rear sway, go with option 4 and widen your front wheels/tires. Remember, you need to add m3 front tension rods to increase the negative camber. If you add only the front sway you will experience disastrous understeer. If you don't widen the front wheels you'll still experience understeer but it won't be disastrous.

[GaryS]

See if Dinan will throw in 25% off on the High Performance Bushing kit too. That is M3 front tension arms and rear subframe bushings.

Otherwise, your #1, #2 and #3 are so similar, I would just choose the lowest price.

edit: I disagree about the rear swaybar. It is a big risk considering how many people have ended up removing them. I've heard that Dinan stopped recommending it because they were getting so many complaints.

[e90pilot]

Dinan only has the control arms and rear subframe bushings and not the tension rods.

[GaryS]

^^ You are confusing the names. The one Dinan doesn't have is the front lower wishbone.

[e90pilot]

Whichever increases negative camber is the one that they don't have. They use a camber plate instead. Also the reason Dinan removed the rear sway is to reduce installation costs. I've had stage 3 suspension for a very long time now and I can say with out a doubt that it needs the rear sway bar if you install the front bar. Even with both bars it still understeers badly. You really need to increase your front tire size. If you don't want the rear sway bar don't install the front bar.

[cvc 22349a]

Just ordered stage 3, bushing kit and rear sway today
If you order a suspension kit, they'll also take 25% off the bushing kit and rear sway.
I had a hard time deciding between installing Dinan's camber plates and the M3 lower wishbone links, but in the end just decided to go all-in with Dinan and not change the front susp geometry.
My only question now is to I do the rear upper links as well since my car dog-legs all over the place when I step on it hard with the tune and wider tires. I'm hoping the susp and subframe bushings alone will solve that problem.

[cvc 22349a]

I got too excited about my purchase. I'm not an engineer or mechanic, so my input is worth squat but here it goes: option 1 or 4... I think you should mention what your wheel/tire combo/will be.

[Outlaw 06]

Thanks for the heads up.

[EVO_S4]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

Just ordered stage 3, bushing kit and rear sway today
If you order a suspension kit, they'll also take 25% off the bushing kit and rear sway.
I had a hard time deciding between installing Dinan's camber plates and the M3 lower wishbone links, but in the end just decided to go all-in with Dinan and not change the front susp geometry.
My only question now is to I do the rear upper links as well since my car dog-legs all over the place when I step on it hard with the tune and wider tires. I'm hoping the susp and subframe bushings alone will solve that problem.

did you ordered through the website or call, its not showing the 25% off when doing it online

[cvc 22349a]

^^^ Look at the specials tab. All susp systems are 25% off. I called to inquire about the other susp components, and then ordered through my local dealer.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by e90pilot

Whichever increases negative camber is the one that they don't have. They use a camber plate instead. Also the reason Dinan removed the rear sway is to reduce installation costs. I've had stage 3 suspension for a very long time now and I can say with out a doubt that it needs the rear sway bar if you install the front bar. Even with both bars it still understeers badly. You really need to increase your front tire size. If you don't want the rear sway bar don't install the front bar.

The front wishbone not only adds negative camber, it also takes away the bind in the suspension, making the frontend more compliant and take away any artificial increase in spring rates created by the rubber bushing in a bind.

With proper selection of spring rates, damper settings and camber you will find you don't need wider front tires to reduce understeer.

[GaryS]

Originally Posted by e90pilot

I can say with out a doubt that it needs the rear sway bar if you install the front bar. Even with both bars it still understeers badly. You really need to increase your front tire size. If you don't want the rear sway bar don't install the front bar.

Well you can call Dinan and ask. When I did, their tech for my region, Scott Leandres, told me Dinan does not recommend changing the stock rear bar because it is already the right size.

There are also many threads about it here. The people who have posted about trying and removing the M3 rear bar mostly say that it cost them too much inside wheel spin. Most people who said they didn't have that problem had LSDs or huge rear wheels.

But there are some people who like it, so I call it a risk. I will have an LSD and huge rear wheels pretty soon and might give it a try then.

[MKE_M3]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I am going to go with option 4 for now, ordering the M3 bits from harold. Too much confusion around the sway bars and I am also getting an LSD soon, so I'll see what else I need after all of the new stuff is installed and I do another track day.

[e90pilot]

I did ask dinan. If fact one of the reps at thier open house a few weeks ago said if you spend money on anything handling related but don't have enough for a full coilover, stiffen the rear sway and remove the runflats. I have a 325 so wheelspin is not an issue for me. I can see how a 335 would be problematic.

Harold hit the nail right on the head. With proper springs and shocks you can adjust the balance so that you will not need wider front tires. Dinan initially tuned their setup with a 330i on their wheels (265/275). I don't know if they changes the rear spring/shock rates. If they haven't, you need the rear bar. They still offer the rear so that leads me to believe they havent changed the rear spring/shock setup.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by jdemetry

Thanks for the advice everyone. I think I am going to go with option 4 for now, ordering the M3 bits from harold. Too much confusion around the sway bars and I am also getting an LSD soon, so I'll see what else I need after all of the new stuff is installed and I do another track day.

I wish I would have had the subframe bushings installed at the same time as the lsd; saves alot on labor costs. If you're going to stick with rft's then maybe you won't want the subframe bushings.

[MKE_M3]

cvc - Thanks for the idea to have the rear subframe bushings installed with the LSD. How much extra do you think it will add to the cost of the install of the LSD? Also, what do run flats have to do with the upgraded rear bushings? Either way, I will definately ditch the runflats when I get new tires

[cvc 22349a]

^^^ Then I'd wait to do lsd & subframe bushings until you're riding on non-rft's. It's up to you; read around this forum or better yet, talk to Dinan or Harold at HPA.

[MKE_M3]

I know run flats suck, I just have no interest in throwing away tires with 5000 miles left in them.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

I wish I would have had the subframe bushings installed at the same time as the lsd; saves alot on labor costs. If you're going to stick with rft's then maybe you won't want the subframe bushings.

Actually, doing the LSD and subframe bushings together won't save you much on labor hours. Installing the LSD does not required the subframe to be removed from the vehicle. The only time saved is the exhaust must be removed for both installations.

Harold

[cvc 22349a]

Harold,

Since you seem to be following this thread, I've got a question for you: If you were installing this susp system and had to choose between installing Dinan's camber plates and the M3 front wishbone links, which would you choose, why?

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by cvc 22349a

Harold,

Since you seem to be following this thread, I've got a question for you: If you were installing this susp system and had to choose between installing Dinan's camber plates and the M3 front wishbone links, which would you choose, why?

I would choose the M3 lower wishbone if the camber gain is about the same on the components in question.

The wishbone not only adds negative camber, but it also removes the rubber bushing that cuases the car to lose camber under cornering loads. Not to mention it frees up the suspension and takes away bushing bind(no artificial increase in spring rates).

What Dinan didn't tell you is that their camber plates adds almost 1/2" of ride height to the front of the vehicle. If you were to use anything other than their springs you may find the front of the vehicle to be slightly higher than the rear.