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      12-21-2006, 07:02 PM   #1
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Anybody here test drive a 335 Coupe in the meantime?

Waiting is hard... but these are good problems to have.

Anybody here test drive a 335i coupe to see how it fits? What did you think? I'm thinking I need to try one out. I'm getting bored.
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      12-21-2006, 07:35 PM   #2
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About 2 months ago

I drove a 6sp 335i. Was impressed in some areas but not the ones that really matter. I liked the looks, interior, comfort and convenience features (cool stuff like brightening brake lights on hard braking, turn following head lamps, seat belt extender, comfort access, etc.) but did not like the sound (almost none), clutch (felt like an econobox clutch), steering, suspension etc. Car does not feel fast at all (perhaps a benefit for some). Many of these things were certainly not bad (less the clutch) they were just luxury oriented rather than sport oriented. I do like a car that can have both but the balance toward luxury is way too far for my liking.
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      12-21-2006, 07:42 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I drove a 6sp 335i. Was impressed in some areas but not the ones that really matter. I liked the looks, interior, comfort and convenience features (cool stuff like brightening brake lights on hard braking, turn following head lamps, seat belt extender, comfort access, etc.) but did not like the sound (almost none), clutch (felt like an econobox clutch), steering, suspension etc. Car does not feel fast at all (perhaps a benefit for some). Many of these things were certainly not bad (less the clutch) they were just luxury oriented rather than sport oriented. I do like a car that can have both but the balance toward luxury is way too far for my liking.
But I heard that the car has potential.
Plus, if you want the "sport-oriented" car, you should wait for new M3, not 335
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      12-21-2006, 07:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last E92 M3 View Post
But I heard that the car has potential.
It's no M3, but it certainly has that some nice tuning potential. Check out the threads on e90post forced induction forum

http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58

Some members are getting some nice #'s with the Xede piggyback ECU upgrade, like this: 322WHP / 378 lb.-ft. TQ, (+ 57WHP / +92 TQ from stock)
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      12-21-2006, 07:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
It's no M3, but it certainly has that some nice tuning potential. Check out the threads on e90post forced induction forum

http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=58

Some members are getting some nice #'s with the Xede piggyback ECU upgrade, like this: 322WHP / 378 lb.-ft. TQ, (+ 57WHP / +92 TQ from stock)
Yup, that's where I was going at.
Stage 0 = bye bye E46 M3.
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      12-21-2006, 07:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I drove a 6sp 335i. Was impressed in some areas but not the ones that really matter. I liked the looks, interior, comfort and convenience features (cool stuff like brightening brake lights on hard braking, turn following head lamps, seat belt extender, comfort access, etc.) but did not like the sound (almost none), clutch (felt like an econobox clutch), steering, suspension etc. Car does not feel fast at all (perhaps a benefit for some). Many of these things were certainly not bad (less the clutch) they were just luxury oriented rather than sport oriented. I do like a car that can have both but the balance toward luxury is way too far for my liking.
Doesnt it have 300hp & 300ft-lb of torque? less hp then the E46 M3, but lots more torque. Cant believe you didn't find it fast with a 6sp manual .

I tried to test one at lunch today, but the salesman said they were back ordered til January.
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      12-21-2006, 10:01 PM   #7
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Doesnt it have 300hp & 300ft-lb of torque? less hp then the E46 M3, but lots more torque. Cant believe you didn't find it fast with a 6sp manual .

I tried to test one at lunch today, but the salesman said they were back ordered til January.
No, it has about 330 HP and the same TQ according to real-world dyno reports, and around 400 of each with a simple $1300 mod. Stock for stock, they are dead even with an E46 M3 assuming the M3 is on boil. If not, the 335i trounces the M3 from a torque perspective.
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      12-21-2006, 10:40 PM   #8
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Drove one last weekend (14 Dec 06)

It was nice. Lot's of luxury features. I found it be very very quiet inside however the exhaust was nicely tuned. Unfortunately I drove an automatic, but it was the nicest auto tranny I've ever driven, with instantanious upshifts and blip throttle smooth down shifts. I loved the motor too, tons of torgue throughout the power band. It was very very easy to drive fast. My only area for improvement would be the steering, I'd like to have a higher effort and more feedback. Hopefully it will be fixed on the M3.
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      12-21-2006, 11:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
No, it has about 330 HP and the same TQ according to real-world dyno reports, and around 400 of each with a simple $1300 mod. Stock for stock, they are dead even with an E46 M3 assuming the M3 is on boil. If not, the 335i trounces the M3 from a torque perspective.
Nice mod, but I have a feeling that after BMW starts eating the cost of replacing a bunch of twin turbos under warranty, they'll mod the cars to block that. Or at least stop covering the replacement.

Thats kind of why I'm iffy about the 335i.. twin turbos are high maintainence and cost alot for that maintainence. Although, supposedly these BMW turbos are supposed to be pretty reliable.

Still, I'd prefer a normally aspirated engine like the 400hp V8 beast going in the M3 .
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      12-22-2006, 06:57 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Nice mod, but I have a feeling that after BMW starts eating the cost of replacing a bunch of twin turbos under warranty, they'll mod the cars to block that. Or at least stop covering the replacement.

Thats kind of why I'm iffy about the 335i.. twin turbos are high maintainence and cost alot for that maintainence. Although, supposedly these BMW turbos are supposed to be pretty reliable.

Still, I'd prefer a normally aspirated engine like the 400hp V8 beast going in the M3 .
Perhaps, time will tell. Remember we aren't talking a radical boost here, only 2 psi more at maximum.

I for one am a turbo fan (no pun intended) from an engineering perspective.

In regards to the steering, forged wheels will remove a lot of weight. I just got my BBS forged on my 335i, and saved 17lbs per wheel (subject to change upon re-weighing to verify, there is some debate whether my shop's #'s are accurate). The car went from a bit dead (but with great directional stability) to being much more communicative with that change.

Finally, I'll say this. With residuals so high, MF buy rates at .0015, and ED available, a 2 year lease is an easy and cheap way to drive a 335i now, and then decide M3 or not when they are available in quantity!
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      12-22-2006, 10:36 AM   #11
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drove the 335i the day it came out

dont care how fast it goes..
boring as hell to drive.
i cant belive ppl are trying to compare this thing to a M car

felt so good to get back into my M.
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      12-22-2006, 12:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
Still, I'd prefer a normally aspirated engine like the 400hp V8 beast going in the M3 .
NA!!!
one of reasons why i like M models.
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      12-22-2006, 03:21 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
Perhaps, time will tell. Remember we aren't talking a radical boost here, only 2 psi more at maximum.

I for one am a turbo fan (no pun intended) from an engineering perspective.

In regards to the steering, forged wheels will remove a lot of weight. I just got my BBS forged on my 335i, and saved 17lbs per wheel (subject to change upon re-weighing to verify, there is some debate whether my shop's #'s are accurate). The car went from a bit dead (but with great directional stability) to being much more communicative with that change.

Finally, I'll say this. With residuals so high, MF buy rates at .0015, and ED available, a 2 year lease is an easy and cheap way to drive a 335i now, and then decide M3 or not when they are available in quantity!

I' m a huge fan of weight reduction, but (like you implied) don't you think that 17 lbs. per corner is somewhat optimistic?

Regarding turbos: I can't really say that I'm a true believer in their superiority. I owed a 997 turbo (wicked car), drove a 335 tt several times, and I have to say that I missed some of the rawness of a N/A high revving motor.

IMO, the main reason manufacturers utilize comtemporary turbo technology is either due to design limitations and well...heritage with iconic turbo (i.e. Porsche) and /or fuel economy over a big displacement motor.

In the end however, I for one do not want to be the guy owning or trying to sell a twin turbo out of FACTORY warranty. You can argue that the warranty is extensive but in reality not so much. The higher the price the less miles driven, therefore most owers' warranties term expire rather than mileage expire. Most people start thinking about their warranty expiration about 18-24 months before it expires knowing that the subsequent buyer will want some lasting warranty when buying your car. And certified usually only applies to dealer cars. Of course, if trading you have more lattitude but also take in the a_ _ !

Kind of off topic, but I 'm just venting.

I'm curious as to how many members of this board if given the choice between the E90 M3 at MSRP plus tax or the 2008 Porsche Carrera S (it's suppose to get 375-380 hp and 310 tq.) would go for the Porsche if the out the door final price was only $15k more? Obviously, the Porsche is being discounted. I have my reasons for my survey. And, consider that the Porsche has a historically terrible resale while the last generation M3's had a terrific residual.
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      12-22-2006, 03:44 PM   #14
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I never really liked Porches. I've liked the Mitsubishi 3000GT as a poor mans Ferrari Testarosa, and of course the Trans Am during the 80's. But as far as high end cars go these days (not that the 3000GT and the Trans Am were that high end), I think an Aston Martin DB9 is about it. Ferraris and Lambos tend to look too out there sometimes. Although the latest Ferrari is really good looking... but they certainly aren't $50k to $60k... more like the cost of a house .

Turbos kind of suck period... high & expensive maintainence, unreliable and of course the dreaded "turbo lag". Twin turbos is a hack / band-aid fix for "turbo lag". I wonder why they didn't go with a supercharger. Not that thats any more reliable.

My ex-boss drove a Porche 911 twin turbo, and went on vacation for 2 weeks and came back to find that rats had chewed through some wiring harnesses for the turbos. It cost him $10,000 to fix it!! Yes, TEN THOUSAND. He had to file an insurance claim.

I wanted to buy a new E46 M3, but of course.. discontinued ... I'm looking at a slightly used one next week maybe (~ 10k miles on a 2005). I'll certainly buy the extended warranty when that time comes. I'm driving a 2002 325i now, and a recent $1200 brake / rotor job convinced me .

Certifieds go to 100k miles on the warranty.
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      12-22-2006, 04:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SledgeHammer View Post
I never really liked Porches. I've liked the Mitsubishi 3000GT as a poor mans Ferrari Testarosa, and of course the Trans Am during the 80's. But as far as high end cars go these days (not that the 3000GT and the Trans Am were that high end), I think an Aston Martin DB9 is about it. Ferraris and Lambos tend to look too out there sometimes. Although the latest Ferrari is really good looking... but they certainly aren't $50k to $60k... more like the cost of a house .

Turbos kind of suck period... high & expensive maintainence, unreliable and of course the dreaded "turbo lag". Twin turbos is a hack / band-aid fix for "turbo lag". I wonder why they didn't go with a supercharger. Not that thats any more reliable.

My ex-boss drove a Porche 911 twin turbo, and went on vacation for 2 weeks and came back to find that rats had chewed through some wiring harnesses for the turbos. It cost him $10,000 to fix it!! Yes, TEN THOUSAND. He had to file an insurance claim.

I wanted to buy a new E46 M3, but of course.. discontinued ... I'm looking at a slightly used one next week maybe (~ 10k miles on a 2005). I'll certainly buy the extended warranty when that time comes. I'm driving a 2002 325i now, and a recent $1200 brake / rotor job convinced me .

Certifieds go to 100k miles on the warranty.
Some very good points. The rat thing could have have happened to any car, maybe not 10k but that sounds a little high.

Certified may well be 100k, but you can't certify a privately owned car, kind of a quandry? Even if FACTORY certified, unless you drive a lot it's 2 extra years OR 100k. Two years comes fast, 100k doesn't. If the average sports car guy drives 5-8k per year, many warranty issues will still come later in life.

I agree with you regarding some of the exotics but the latest crop of P cars (ie 997 series) is leaps and bounds above the last generation Porsches and many of it's peers (exotics).
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      12-22-2006, 05:44 PM   #16
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Small clarification

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forged wheels will remove a lot of weight
This is maybe what you meant but in case not...

Forged wheels do not remove weight per se. Forging produces parts with better grain micro-structure and higher yield and ultimate strenghts. The material is however, the same density as machined material. If the designers/engineers are clever with theis stronger material they can then design a lighter part by simply using less material and maintaining suitable strength and stiffness. So in the end forged wheels can be lighter but definitely are not always a guaranteed weight saver - some forged wheels are heavier than some machined wheels.
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      12-22-2006, 07:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Some very good points. The rat thing could have have happened to any car, maybe not 10k but that sounds a little high.

Certified may well be 100k, but you can't certify a privately owned car, kind of a quandry? Even if FACTORY certified, unless you drive a lot it's 2 extra years OR 100k. Two years comes fast, 100k doesn't. If the average sports car guy drives 5-8k per year, many warranty issues will still come later in life.

I agree with you regarding some of the exotics but the latest crop of P cars (ie 997 series) is leaps and bounds above the last generation Porsches and many of it's peers (exotics).
The reason it cost him $10,000 to fix the "rat thing" was because the harnesses were buried in the small engine compartment. I seem to remember they had to take the engine out to get to everything, so that $10,000 starts to sound about right.

Yeah, I can't privately certify my car unless I sell it to BMW then buy it back and loose about $10k in the process.
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      12-22-2006, 08:09 PM   #18
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Mercury Insurance, and others, offer bumper-to-bumper extensions for many years from the date of purchase of the policy. Before I got my 335i I was considering a slightly used AMG E55. The cost for 60 months extension, from date of purchase, 75K miles was somewhere in the neighborhhod of $4K. 100K miles was like $4400 I believe. In other words, there are plenty of "extended warranty" options out there other than going back through factory certification.

It's funny to me that many people are so dead set against FI, even though it's a superior technology over NA. Well, I remember corner working back in the mid to late 80's when the racing Corvettes and Audi's were fitted with ABS when that was still a novelty, and the SCCA "hotshoes" were all claiming no computer could outbrake me. Then the first rain races came and those cars destroyed their competitors...and now ABS is standard. IMHO, it's not FI that is the problem, it's been that many prior attempts did not have the necessary engineering, CAD, and materials technology to make them work as well. There's the legendary street racing Supra engines that work VERY well and are reliable as anything if you don't go crazy with the boost! Of course I'm not saying BMW is an expert at FI but lets get real...who is going to keep these cars that long?

Regarding wheel weights, that 17 lbs per wheel was measured on a scale at a well-known local BMW shop. My BBS RG-R's weigh about 19 lbs each. The stock 162's are claimed to weigh about 25 lbs, but myself and at least 1 other person had them measured much, much higher. I just got my new wheels on this week, when I go back to pick up the stock ones next week, I will weigh them myself, so that's why I said subject to verification. If they DO prove to be that heavy, then I'm going to take a pic 'cause very few believe the stockers are that heavy including myself lol

Yes I know a forged wheel can weigh more than a cast, or just be stronger than a cast for the same weight and design. Did you know some NA engines are more powerful than some FI engines?
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      12-22-2006, 09:49 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
Mercury Insurance, and others, offer bumper-to-bumper extensions for many years from the date of purchase of the policy. Before I got my 335i I was considering a slightly used AMG E55. The cost for 60 months extension, from date of purchase, 75K miles was somewhere in the neighborhhod of $4K. 100K miles was like $4400 I believe. In other words, there are plenty of "extended warranty" options out there other than going back through factory certification.

It's funny to me that many people are so dead set against FI, even though it's a superior technology over NA. Well, I remember corner working back in the mid to late 80's when the racing Corvettes and Audi's were fitted with ABS when that was still a novelty, and the SCCA "hotshoes" were all claiming no computer could outbrake me. Then the first rain races came and those cars destroyed their competitors...and now ABS is standard. IMHO, it's not FI that is the problem, it's been that many prior attempts did not have the necessary engineering, CAD, and materials technology to make them work as well. There's the legendary street racing Supra engines that work VERY well and are reliable as anything if you don't go crazy with the boost! Of course I'm not saying BMW is an expert at FI but lets get real...who is going to keep these cars that long?

Regarding wheel weights, that 17 lbs per wheel was measured on a scale at a well-known local BMW shop. My BBS RG-R's weigh about 19 lbs each. The stock 162's are claimed to weigh about 25 lbs, but myself and at least 1 other person had them measured much, much higher. I just got my new wheels on this week, when I go back to pick up the stock ones next week, I will weigh them myself, so that's why I said subject to verification. If they DO prove to be that heavy, then I'm going to take a pic 'cause very few believe the stockers are that heavy including myself lol

Yes I know a forged wheel can weigh more than a cast, or just be stronger than a cast for the same weight and design. Did you know some NA engines are more powerful than some FI engines?
There have been several aftermarket companies that have gone under. For me, I'd feel a lot better having the factory behind me and so would the subsequent buyer. Even the warranty you cite is structured under the same parameters that I already mentioned, right; basically a six year whatever mileage coverage. Like I said, you'll term expire first with low miles not likely having used the meat of the coverage. $4K

Regarding the wheels; I kind of confused. Didn't you previously write that you saved 17lbs. per wheel? I realize first hand what the BBS wheels weigh having had the RS-GT on one of my E46 M3's. With that said, I don't believe the OEM wheels weigh as much as 36lbs. each. I'm sure the difference was substantial but that's a very heavy wheel. Regardless, the scales don't lie so it is what is is. Nice wheels. I'm sure there are a compliment to your ride.

On the FI subject, as you call it, I never said that I was dead set against it. I just PREFER an n/a motor, that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy FI motors; otherwise I wouldn't have bought the Porsche Turbo. I believe that with today's technology, turbo's don't have the advantage they once had. We're talking street cars here. It doesn't matter which car is fastest on a timed race course. It matters who's having the most fun going fast on the street and the feedback the ride gives you. I think that some of the turbo cars feel too sterile. (Frankly, the 335 turbo felt so detached and less than stirring to me. It doesn't mean that it's not a quick car, just not intoxicating. The M3, on the other hand, whole different story.)

Lastly, sorry but you won't win a debate on which method of engine tech is more reliable and, hence, more lasting than the N/A one.
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      12-22-2006, 10:34 PM   #20
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Well I managed to get a drive in a 335i sport/auto sedan last night with 2 others in the car. I'd call it grin-inducing FAST when you floor it off the line, pushing the pedal past the resistance point. I didn't get to take it around many curves, so can't comment on the handling but it definitely felt adequate. I was very impressed with the power. Not much engine noise in the cockpit, no turbo whine, and I felt no turbo lag (then again, I'm used to lag in my Evo) Outside the car, the exhaust certainly had personality and it's nice BMW tinkered with it. Although, I can't deny I prefer the sound of a V8.

Unfortunately the salesguy knew I was waiting for an M3 so tried to get me to step up to an M5... he let us check it out a bit... firing up the engine was magic. That car is a masterpiece. I haven't felt so excited over a car since I first drove a 911.... I hope the M3 makes me that nuts. The width-adjustable seats in the M5 are incredible. Lots of gadgets in that car. I wonder how many will carry over into the M3?

That's about it.
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      12-23-2006, 12:06 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manz_UK View Post
drove the 335i the day it came out

dont care how fast it goes..
boring as hell to drive.
i cant belive ppl are trying to compare this thing to a M car

felt so good to get back into my M.


my thoughts exactly!!
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      12-26-2006, 04:38 PM   #22
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Update on actual wheel weights of 162's can be found here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40946

So I saved 11x2 and 13x2 lbs going with BBS RG-R forged, less than what the shop told me, but more than what the published weights suggest.
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