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      11-06-2006, 10:12 PM   #1
BevoRules
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Educate layman please

Okay, I've been reading very diligentily every message posted on here for some time now - or at least almost everyone anyway. I am a relative newby when it comes to BMW and certainly the M Series. This will be my very first BMW (even though my wife has a '03 4.6 BMW which is a fantastic vehicle in its own right) and I'm not ashamed to say that I still have much to learn. But thx to everyone here who is making the experience fun and very worthwhile.

But anyway, there have been several posts over the past several weeks RE how us Americans are going to get screwed with a slightly watered down product - yes I fully realize even a watered down product for this vehicle is still going to be extremely awesome. But everything from mandatory sun roof, to limited exhaust, to a engire governor to no telling what else. So two questions.

First can someone explain what are all the options which BMW offers (or has offered) in non-US cars historically which we Americans can't get or are stuck with do to limited choice?

Second, and maybe a stupid question, but should someone (some American that is) consider buying this next M3 over in Europe rather than the US in order to circumvent these issues? I have a buddy (who also is a big time enthusiats) who has family in both Germany as well as Australia. He would be more than willing to do me a favor and get the vehicle bot for me overseas as long as I would be willing to pay the incremental costs. This idea have any merits? I'm already on waiting list at a dealership in TX but whose to say a replan isn't in order. and yes I understand might be difficult to answer considering we don't know exactly what BMW is going to release here yet.

:rocks:
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      11-06-2006, 11:02 PM   #2
Smoltz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BevoRules View Post
Okay, I've been reading very diligentily every message posted on here for some time now - or at least almost everyone anyway. I am a relative newby when it comes to BMW and certainly the M Series. This will be my very first BMW (even though my wife has a '03 4.6 BMW which is a fantastic vehicle in its own right) and I'm not ashamed to say that I still have much to learn. But thx to everyone here who is making the experience fun and very worthwhile.
Welcome to the forum. The X5 4.6 is a nice setup. The learning never stops. That's why we're all here.

Quote:
But anyway, there have been several posts over the past several weeks RE how us Americans are going to get screwed with a slightly watered down product - yes I fully realize even a watered down product for this vehicle is still going to be extremely awesome. But everything from mandatory sun roof, to limited exhaust, to a engire governor to no telling what else. So two questions.
In recent history BMW has not sent over any watered down vehicles for the most part. They have had to do some tweaking, but it's nothing that has altered the character of the car for the most part.

We do have less choices for options. The story with the sunroof remains to be seen. Both of these are due to BMW NA (see my note below regarding why they do this)

The current M3 is limited to 155mph according to BMW, but that's pretty fast and most aftermarket software removes the limiter and many owners report they have exceeded the claimed limit. Go figure.

Quote:
First can someone explain what are all the options which BMW offers (or has offered) in non-US cars historically which we Americans can't get or are stuck with do to limited choice?
Historically, other markets have had more selection as far as options go, exterior colors, interior colors, trim level, etc. This is due to BMW NA. They want to limit selections and options in order to simplify ordering and to ensure resalability for lease vehicles and to minimize dealers getting stuck with unsellable cars.

The case with the E36 M3 in the US being offered without the euro motor has to do with market positioning, pricing, emissions, etc.

Quote:

Second, and maybe a stupid question, but should someone (some American that is) consider buying this next M3 over in Europe rather than the US in order to circumvent these issues? I have a buddy (who also is a big time enthusiats) who has family in both Germany as well as Australia. He would be more than willing to do me a favor and get the vehicle bot for me overseas as long as I would be willing to pay the incremental costs. This idea have any merits? I'm already on waiting list at a dealership in TX but whose to say a replan isn't in order. and yes I understand might be difficult to answer considering we don't know exactly what BMW is going to release here yet.

:rocks:
This is technically possible but it would cost far more than it would be worth.

-Adam
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      11-07-2006, 12:00 AM   #3
John
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to see some options and potential colors, build your the current m3 on bmwusa.com

that will give you a good sense of what options, combos the new m3 might have. its a start
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      11-07-2006, 02:00 AM   #4
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Man smoltz you are the MAN!!!! as I was reading his post I had everything ready to post back, in almost exact words as you. Solid post my brotha!!!

Bevo rules, welcome to the forums and i look forward to seeing you post around here.
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      11-07-2006, 04:14 AM   #5
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The Z4 M Coupé and Roadster are a recent example of a watered down US version. They have 330hp in the US version due to the emissions requirement (same reason that the E46 M3 had 333hp), and the Euro versions have 343hp. In addition, the euro version tailipipes have a system which opens up at about 4500rpm to give out an even more beautiful noise from the engine which makes it sound almost like the M3 CSL... Not so on the US version, not allowed.

As far as top speed limit governor, that's not US-specific, European cars are also limited to 250km/h which is pretty close (but a little more) than 155mph. But 155mph is plenty on most US roads. For the racetrack, it's a simple ECU modification to remove the governor, and can be done without voiding the warranty.

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Jussi
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      11-07-2006, 07:58 AM   #6
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Yea the watering down process is a thing of the past for the most part, as JK42 mentioned there is a slight different in HP due to changes made in the exhaust setup because of emissions requirements. But I wouldnt describe 10hp as anything really significant. In the past (e36 generation) there was a real watering down of the M3 cars for the USA (240hp engine here vs 320 hp in europe) that was done more for marketing reasons, but american has proven itself as a very M friendly country and globalization of cars and parts has really taken hold over the last 10 years so the cars are for the most part identical around the worst. Only major changes are the level of trim determined by the host country.
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      11-07-2006, 03:42 PM   #7
Smoltz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JK42 View Post
The Z4 M Coupé and Roadster are a recent example of a watered down US version. They have 330hp in the US version due to the emissions requirement (same reason that the E46 M3 had 333hp), and the Euro versions have 343hp. In addition, the euro version tailipipes have a system which opens up at about 4500rpm to give out an even more beautiful noise from the engine which makes it sound almost like the M3 CSL... Not so on the US version, not allowed.
You are only partially correct. Take the E46 M3. Euro rating 343HP. US Rating 333HP. However, US HP ratings are SAE and European ones are DIN. You need to apply a conversion factor.

1 DIN HP (or PS) = .9863201652997627 SAE HP (approx)

Apply the conversion factor to 343 and you get 338, so the car loses a 5HP due to the different catalyst configuration. (according to BMW at least)

-Adam
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      11-07-2006, 08:27 PM   #8
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Yep this math is correct. About 5 hp in the wash, not very much.
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      11-07-2006, 08:56 PM   #9
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You're right,

1 PS = 75 kp·m/s = 0.73549875 kW = 0.9863201652997627 hp (SAE).

Explains why the horsepower ratings on the bmwusa.com site have always seemed a little off. Silly to be changing measurements on such a little unit. I think everyone should just use kiloWatts as is the international recommendation for automotive industries. I just wonder why the 265 DIN hp Z4 3.0si is shown as 255hp (should be 258hp SAE.), and the Z4 3.0i as 215 SAE HP (should be 227 SAE HP) on the US site. Perhaps they do round up numbers a bit, because at least the N52B30 and M54B30 engines are the same, they're shipped from Germany to the factory in Spartanburg for the Z4's and they do not put different units into different market cars, as there is no emission requirement difference on the "regular" Z4's. However, there must be an octane difference on the measured SAE hp's which BMW USA obviously measures themselves and the specs call for lower octane fuel than the DIN HP specs. I'm too tired to look it up on Google right now, so that must be it... Most available US gas is of lower octane rating anyway... (Yes, I know the difference between RON and ROZ octane ratings)..

Even the N52B30 pot gets about 10 DIN hp increase merely by using 99+ octane (RON) gasoline as compared to regular 98E unleaded. (Tested in a roto-dyno.) (And also decreases overall consumption by about 0.5 liters per 100 kilometers on extra-urban driving.)

Best regards,

Jussi
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