[FadyDizzle]

Hi all,

I'm coming off of a lease of a 2008 Cadillac CTS in January 2011. I've been cross shopping many other cars and got a chance to test drive a 2010 BMW 335xi. I do about 18-20k/yr in NJ weather and am sometimes stuck driving in the snow (i.e. returning from work) although I have some flexibility in working from home when I need to if it's really coming down there in the morning.

That said, I've loved the CTS and it's all wheel drive but definitely found the 335xi fun to drive. While I'd give up some features (i.e. hard drive recording and cooled seats), I also feel like the fun factor and slight improvement to gas mileage would be worth the switch assuming I have lease payments in line.

After I talked with the salesman for a while though, I got to thinking about the 335d due to my desire for a fun to drive vehicle (although slightly slower than the 335xi to 60, I can live with that) and my high mileage driving. However, I'm reading mixed review regarding RWD with snow tires. I think the general consensus is that I can forego the 335xi for a 335d w/ snow tires. However, this is where my complete inexperience comes in and I request your advice. How does the snow tire thing work? I see from the threads you basically buy a set of rims and snow tread tires (I'm guessing larger rims are better for the ground clearance). Do I just then store the tires in my garage basically and change them myself in the beginning and end of summer? Is that easy to do? I've changed flat tires before, but is it any more difficult on BMWs (I can only imagine how dumb I sound right now lol). Also, more importantly, is it worth it getting some snow tires if its a 36 mo lease, or should I just throw some sand (or anything heavy) in the trunk w/ my all season tires and not worry too much if I'm not driving in tons of snow? Will it be worth it if I lease or should I just consider buying instead and then make the snow tire investment?

Then, when I got to thinking, if I give up the X-drive, should I also start looking into a new 528i since they're in the same price range at that point? Between the 3 and new 5, is it a huge step up (although performance drops of course)?

Lots of questions, I know, but I look forward to your opinions.

[Kolyan2k]

Without reading the post....sorry...

Snow tires and rwd is fine. Its good if u get performance winter tires and its great if u get snow/ice tires.

Get a set of wheels and tires.

[GregTheStig]

Can't give you the best advice since I live in Georgia, but last winter we had a big freeze that pretty much shut down ATL for a weekend. A few inches of snow froze overnight and all the roads were icy. I took my 2007 328i with just all season tires around the neighborhood and never felt like I was losing grip, period. You have more experience than I ever will in winter driving, so I'd imagine with winter tires and BMW's advanced traction/stability, you'll be fine without AWD.

Hope that helps a little and welcome to the forum

[JSpira]

I suspect that a lot of the articles on The Diesel Driver will give you some insight into what you should do but I would definitely advise you read the Winter Tires piece as well as take a look at the photos I took driving the Roßfeldstraße (slide show is at the very bottom of the article).

To answer your other questions, I´m not sure what you mean re the diameter as you obviously want to get the skinniest tires possible for winter tires and typically would mount 16" or 17" wheels instead of the factory 18" or 19".

[FadyDizzle]

Thanks all for the feedback so far.

Jspira, I was basically asking, for rim size, is bigger better for winter tires since it also increases ground clearance (so the car is higher, less likely to get stuck in a few inches of snow)? I'm sure it doesn't make a drastic difference though.

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by FadyDizzle

Thanks all for the feedback so far.

Jspira, I was basically asking, for rim size, is bigger better for winter tires since it also increases ground clearance (so the car is higher, less likely to get stuck in a few inches of snow)? I'm sure it doesn't make a drastic difference though.

Why would the rim size impact height?

To reiterate what I said, you would want to go down 1 to 2" in wheel size for winter tires.

[FadyDizzle]

Ya, not sure, I guess where I read the comment, they meant the larger wheels/tires allow the car to be higher off the ground in case there's a few inches already on the snow and you're trying to get out, say from a parking lot. But I'll stick with the smaller rims and thinner tires, if anything that should be more cost efficient too. Is it worth going the route of getting such tires though on a lease?

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by FadyDizzle

if anything that should be more cost efficient too.

If by cost effective you mean less expensive, yes, they are less expensive than larger wheels and tires.

Originally Posted by FadyDizzle

Is it worth going the route of getting such tires though on a lease?

Are you planning on driving your car in winter during the term of your lease?

[FadyDizzle]

Yup, will be driving it in the winter, but not sure how much in the snow. If I end up getting it in Jan, usually we have Feb to put up with then Mar gets better, much less snow. So I could always see if I do end up having to drive much in the snow and decide from there. So, I guess to answer the question, I'll drive in the 'winter' but not sure yet if I will end up driving in snow/icy conditions.

[JSpira]

Of course that (the question of driving it except when it snows) all depends on whether your car is equipped with summer tires or not.

If it is, then you pretty much will need to go to winter tires after the temperature drops below 7°C on a regular basis, regardless of snow.

[linlaoboo]

The mileage you do is not that high. I do 36K/ year and I commute from central to northern Jersey everyday. They usually do a good job cleaning the snow with the taxes we pay they better. If you're really that concerned then don't go out driving and work at home. You should be fine in the RWD, just take it slow. Get a set of thinner snows if you can afford it but if you go with smaller rims the ground clearance will be lower unless the side walls are taller than stock. The clearance on these cars are low. If the snow is too high then you either shouldn't be out there or should be in an SUV. I get 28mpg in the 328xi although it's not the 335 you are looking for. Just thought you are concerned with fuel economy.

[linlaoboo]

summer tires are like ice pucks on ice below freezing. During the snow storm we had last year, I almost couldn't make it up the hill on a stretch of 287 in the rwd g35S. With traction control going off the whole time, can barely make it up 1 mile/hour with my tires spinning about 30 miles/hr. Went and got all seasons immediately. Lesson learned.

Originally Posted by JSpira

Of course that (the

question of driving it except when it snows) all depends on whether your car is equipped with summer tires or not.

If it is, then you pretty much will need to go to winter tires after the temperature drops below 7°C on a regular basis, regardless of snow.

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by linlaoboo

summer tires are like ice pucks on ice below freezing. During the snow storm we had last year, I almost couldn't make it up the hill on a stretch of 287 in the rwd g35S. With traction control going off the whole time, can barely make it up 1 mile/hour with my tires spinning about 30 miles/hr. Went and got all seasons immediately. Lesson learned.

Good that nothing really bad happened but I´m curious, why didn´t you get winter tires as opposed to all season?

[JSpira]

Originally Posted by linlaoboo

T if you go with smaller rims the ground clearance will be lower

Not sure why you would say that. As long as you get the specified tires for your car, the overall diameter stays the same, regardless of how small the wheel is (of course, the wheel has to be big enough to clear the brakes).

[Tungtr09]

Im thinking a 335xi would be better for you if your going to be driving in the snow a lot cause last winter Washington had a huge snow storm and my 2008 335xi was perfect in the snow but my brothers 528i couldn't even make it down the hill without losing control.

[Nikolas]

First off, rim size does not make the car taller off the ground as you generally offset the rim size with lower profile tires. There will be no comparison between the snow capability between a RWD and an AWD car given the same tires. If you want the best traction in snow, get the XI with snow tires. Anything less you are dealing with power to a rear axle with an open diff - often equates to one wheel spinning and no forward movement when traction is limited or gravity takes hold.

[stratplaya06]

Go for the snows on the RWD. My dad's e60 m5 with snows does just as well, if not better than my xi with all seasons in the snow. With that said, I am getting winter tires for my xi this winter so we'll see how things go.

Also, I wanted to note that regardless of rim size, your ground clearance will be virtually identical. For instance, f you have a 19" wheel, you have a 30 series tire, an 18" a 35, and a 17" a 40. They all end up having the same rolling diameter, but the tire profile differs inversely to how the rim diameter differs.

[Nikolas]

Originally Posted by stratplaya06

Go for the snows on the RWD. My dad's e60 m5 with snows does just as well, if not better than my xi with all seasons in the snow. With that said, I am getting winter tires for my xi this winter so we'll see how things go.

Also, I wanted to note that regardless of rim size, your ground clearance will be virtually identical. For instance, f you have a 19" wheel, you have a 30 series tire, an 18" a 35, and a 17" a 40. They all end up having the same rolling diameter, but the tire profile differs inversely to how the rim diameter differs.

Your car with snow tires will be entirely different and far superior to the RWD with snows.

[bob.g]

if you buy the wheels and tires from the dealer (not recommended since its way more then anywhere else), then they can just store your wheels there so its less hassle. So when the time comes they will swap on your winter wheels and store your summers. There is probably a fee, i never bothered doing it that way. I just bought wheels and tires off tire rack and had a local garage install them when needed.

If you get any kind of serious snowfall, get the xi+winter tires. I see people who have xi's and then skip on the winter tires. i dont get it. You got the xi for all wheel drive and max winter performance but then make it half as usefull by cheaping out on the tires. If you dont plan on getting winter tires then skip on the awd and get a great set of winter tires.

[bkrM3]

I have a 335i sport package (staggered rim setup). The stock tire widths for the front and back are 225 and 255, respectively. I bought Blizzak runflats for winter and went with 225 all around - they fit perfectly fine on the .5'' wider back rims and, as already noted on this thread, thinner is better in terms of getting traction in the snow.

In philly (as you may recall) we had two absolutely absurd blizzards last year and, for one reason or another, I ended up driving in both of them. The first time was back from center city to the suburbs through west philly with a foot of unplowed snow on the roads. With DTC, I found that traction was more than ample and I never came close to getting "stuck" anywhere.

THAT SAID, however, I note that I have a very serious amount of seat time driving various cars in the snow. If you're really inexperienced DO NOT assume that snow tires are going to make you invincible. You will slide if you're going to fast. You won't be able to stop; or turn. Besides snow tires, the single best way to equip yourself for driving in snow is to err on the side of caution until you can get yourself to a big unplowed parking lot and explore the limits of how your particular car handles in the snow with its snow tires.

The final thing I'd like to mention is that if you really do need to rely on a car that isnt a 4WD SUV in the snow, the absolute most complete snow solution is studded snow tires. Want to stop on ice? Not a problem. Of course, there are still the usual dangers and hangups like deep slush (will pull you right off the road) and ground clearance (I don't care how good your traction is if you're driving a 335, you can only plow snow for so far lol...).

Changing the tires seasonally is easy to do yourself. There has to be a stupidly thorough DIY here for that and all you really need in your garage is a jack and a torque wrench...anyone who wants to do it is perfectly capable.

Do me a huge favor though - until you figure out how your new car, whichever you end up with, handles in the snow - try not to drive like a bat out of hell in inclement weather like most people do who are convinced they have adequate equipment but forget they have absolutely no experience actually piloting their car in the event they lose traction.


When buying snow tires, stick with the advice of a shop that knows their stuff. If you call Tire Rack, you'll end up getting exactly what you need.

[markinva]

Have you calculated the fuel cost difference between a 335d and 335xi? Let's say the 335d gets 10mpg more than the 335xi. So, say the 335d averages 35 mpg and the 335xi averages 25 mpg, which is probably pretty fair more mostly highway driving. Over 20k miles, you will used 571 gallons of fuel in the 335d, and 800 gallons in the 335xi.

So, ultimately you are talking a about 229 gallons of fuel over 20,000 miles. At $2.80 a gallon that's $641. So really, adding snow tires and wheels, the pain of switching them and the fact that the 335d has less power... well it's something to think about against the gas savings. You are paying a lot of $$ for a BMW here, and you want to upgrade performance from a cadillac cts, which is no slouch. The "savings" of diesel comes at a hefty price. It sounds to me that really, the 335d does not propose any significant cost savings when you factor in the need for winter tires.

also, 20k/miles a year is a lot for a lease....

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by bob.g

if you buy the wheels and tires from the dealer (not recommended since its way more then anywhere else), then they can just store your wheels there so its less hassle. So when the time comes they will swap on your winter wheels and store your summers. There is probably a fee, i never bothered doing it that way. I just bought wheels and tires off tire rack and had a local garage install them when needed.

If you get any kind of serious snowfall, get the xi+winter tires. I see people who have xi's and then skip on the winter tires. i dont get it. You got the xi for all wheel drive and max winter performance but then make it half as usefull by cheaping out on the tires. If you dont plan on getting winter tires then skip on the awd and get a great set of winter tires.

many local dealers price match tirerack now....well sort of. They gave me a quote only $200 more then tirerack for the complete set but it included life-time switching from winter to summer and back. I ended up getting exactly the same set used with only 200 miles for $400 less.