OEM HU SQ

drummer12 · 09-08-2010, 09:22 AM

Got my 328i on order, so I guess I'll know the answer to this in a few weeks. Seems like every mod on here focuses on new speakers, amps, and DSPs out the wazoo. While that's cute and all...I'm curious as to the actual sound quality of the electronics of the OEM HU. Saying it has a flat response doesn't mean much if the DAC inside is a POS. I'm saying this coming from previous cars where I would swap out the HU for an aftermarket, and immediately would notice a HUGE difference in SQ, sans any DSP hoopla. (I'm not knocking DSPs; they can be great but if you got garbage in, then no amount of DSPs are going to prevent garbage out).

Any specs of the HU alone? Anyone know what DAC is inside (I think I'm getting the 8 speaker HiFi stock so let's assume that config)?

VP Electricity · 09-08-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer12

Seems like every mod on here focuses on new speakers, amps, and DSPs out the wazoo. While that's cute and all...I'm curious as to the actual sound quality of the electronics of the OEM HU.

You have a curious way of asking for advice, mocking the very people who have the answers you seek. You must really be a drummer.

If you get HiFi, the question you ask is relevant.

If you get base Stereo or Logic 7, the question you ask is irrelevant. The HU output is so heavily processed with equalization and crossover filtering that the quality of the DAC is meaningless, UNTIL you've reversed the filtering - hence our concern with DSP, you silly goose.

I run a Theta DAC at home. I have no specs on the DAC in the OEM HU, and given that it's also an MP3-capable drive, I strongly suspect it of being largely software. I find its SQ to be fine, and not a limiting factor. Then again, I haven't found an OEM DAC to be a limiting factor in SQ yet. Having done a lot of car audio SQ systems, I know when the DAC comes into play - after you've eliminated or minimized a LOT of other problems, including the sound of the preamp output (which is what you really should be worried about, if you are worried about SQ, buddy - you have huge boulders on the road, and you're worried about a piece of gravel right now).

If you're that worried about it, recode the HiFi HU to Top HiFI, get a MOST cable, and a Motus Lab AGW+.

drummer12 · 09-08-2010, 12:23 PM

Haha, not mocking

It's just coming from a different place. The OEM HU in my Honda is/was a complete POS. Sounded horrid. I've had several HUs in the car (broken, stolen, etc.), and the difference at times was huge. Granted, the HU/amp in this particular case was integrated, and I have a JL sub setup in the back. But, coming from that environment, you can see why I was disappointed. I also (very briefly) tried out the stereo in the test drive for the 328i (integrated setup) and it was pretty bad as well.

You do make some valid points; but the point I was making was that almost every solution was making the assumption that the OEM HU was plenty good to start with. Or, was your point that, it wasn't that great, and the DSPs are used to clean it up AND provide a better preamp signal? Seems like a lot of money/effort just to preserve some OEM integration...

See, this forum needs more stickies/wikis so BMW n00bs like me don't have to search all day long for answers to obvious questions

808MGuy · 09-08-2010, 12:28 PM

Similiar to what VP said, any benefit from an improved DAC is so miniscule in comparison to everything else that you'd probably not even notice it in an automotive environment. Having gone through many systems I have never noticed a significant improvement in just changing out a head unit when the internal amplifiers are not being used. The only time I noticed an improvement at all is when I went from using the preamp outputs to toslink out of the HU. Even then, the difference was not significant enough for me to spend an extra $1000+ on the gear that would be required to do such a thing in this car.

I am not saying higher end DACs are worthless as they can make a difference when your in a listening environment that will allow you to hear them. Unfortunately, inside a moving car is not one of them.

drummer12 · 09-08-2010, 12:39 PM

Okay, so maybe I should have rephrased a bit...usually I see cars with simple preamp/amp integrated setups, not how the HiFi is setup in the BMW. So an aftermarket setup can be a great improvement.

So let me totally threadjack my own thread (lol) and ask the bigger question: in a HiFi setup, best way to improve sound w/o spending a fortune?

-I have a JL W3v3 already that I will want to hook up - any options for sub level control outside of a remote? I really liked my level control within the HU
-Would the DSP in this case be (mostly) unnecessary (aside from compensating for the acoustics of the car)?
-I'm told the shallow mounting depth limits speaker options. But - looking at Crutchfield (for example), I find several that are less than 2" deep, yet not discussed here (or even available on the site as fitting the car)...and some of the ones here are deeper than the ones on Crutchfield...clearly I am missing something?

Anyway, I was mostly thinking of getting an amp and speakers if the HU output is indeed decent like everyone here seems to implicitly agree upon...

Jedclampet · 09-08-2010, 02:13 PM

I can see your point and came to my own conclusion. Seeing as the need for DSP's, summing, Most links, MS8's Bit ones etc. which can really run up the costs as compared to a dask kit form Metra and a new HU for as much or less money. With that said you must accept the change to what would be a seamless dash to one with a HU sitting right in the middle from a source other than BMW. So I installed a Mcintosh 406 renowned for its DAC and gave up the steering wheel controls altogether and can live with it. I'll try to get some pic's soon. The rest was simple replace all the speakers in there stock locations and add a sub. In my case Morel Elate MT-23, CDM 88's w/ MX 22 X over for the front , ADMW 9's underseats and Tempo Coax 4's in rear deck. And JL Audio ported Powerwedge W3V3 sitting behind pass seat. All run by a 4ch Mcintosh amp for the front under deck in trunk and a JL XD 600 for the rear and sub. I think its pretty stealth as in the stock speaker locations are easily used and the amps are pretty hidden too. If you can live with the looks of the dash and perhaps lack of steering wheel controls then its a very strong option IMO.

kaigoss69 · 09-08-2010, 02:28 PM

In the old days, I would worry about this too. I would install expensive aftermarket head units to get a clean, strong signal to the amps. The amp(s) would be of high quality to produce a clean and strong signal for the speakers. The speakers would be of high quality to be able to reproduce - as best as possible - the signal coming from the amp(s). I thought this was the way to go. Signal processing was never on the table. I thought of it as another link in the chain, that would introduce noise and make the signal less "pure". I guess I was some sort of "purist" ?

Today, I am no longer concerned about the quality (purity) of the signal coming from the HU, but rather with DSP proper processing to get the best possible sound quality out of the system. I have learned that a great DSP can take a good signal, clean it up, process it, and then send an altered signal to the OEM speakers, that is optimized for those same speakers and that same car. The result is sound quality I before never knew existed. I am talking about proper staging, imaging, tonality, and having all the speakers in the car work together in symphony. The "purity" of the original signal is no longer a concern to me.

drummer12 · 09-08-2010, 02:35 PM

Thanks, Jedclampet...you saw where I was going with this

As I said in previous cars I basically tore out the HU and speakers, put in new ones and a sub. The new HU was usually halfway decent as an amp, so I usually didn't bother with a 4ch amp (plus, running new wires is NOT fun).

Having said that, this 328i is a bit better than my Honda

so I'm willing to invest a little more. I know I'm an idiot for posting w/o even truly hearing the system that I'll have in my car, but I got about 3 weeks until delivery and the anticipation is killing me (already have a list of mods and I don't even have the keys to the car). Ideally, I'd love to just use the existing setup and just do speakers and an amp, and throw in my existing amp/sub...but I'll have to see how feasible it is and how well everything works together. Another thing is that HD radio and iPod integration are non-negotiables...so that's another point for OEM.

Jed, about how much did that setup run you? I've seen some pics of similar installs and they look very clean.

Kaigoss, I think you see where I'm going as well...I'm sort of a purist also (on a budget, haha). Pardon my ignorance...I always thought of DSPs as more optimizing the signal for your car and maybe cleaning it up a bit...not so much trying to put lipstick on a pig. I haven't really head the A/B demos of them as of late, so maybe they're just awesome now, haha.

ctuna · 09-08-2010, 03:10 PM

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365866

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138949

Jedclampet · 09-08-2010, 03:34 PM

I had bought the Mac amp, HU and some of the Morels for my last BMW X3 some years ago all costly. Going from memory Amp $1200, HU $1000 speakers another $1000. This go round I added the ADMW's XD 600/6 and JL sub and alot of wire. I still have a Alpine CDA117 HU and a JL Audio sub amp XD 600/1 that I tried and are like new for sale for those looking to upgrade. As far as the work I did it all and running the wires wasn't as bad as other cars I owned. Guess sneaking the wires through the door trim rubber gromet hose thing took some time. My stock harness was never touched since I ran all new power, ground and speaker wires all this can be moved someday to my next toy. Finding a constant 12v, a switched 12v, a ground, dimmer and power antena weren't that hard either. Lastly the HU has an AUX input for my IPOD, which I ran a dock connector up to my hand brake area. I'll try to take some pic's soon.

Jedclampet · 09-08-2010, 03:38 PM

I should point out I have a 135i with a base system, 4 inch no tweeters in the front doors and rear deck, the amp in the HU and I think there were 6.5's under the seat. All of which when sitting on the bench look like they came from Radio Shack. My father Mazda 3 sounded better, well now its night and day.

ctuna · 09-08-2010, 03:40 PM

Jed how do like the xd amp and what speakers did you use with it.(specific models and sizes)
Also whats your solution for the Head replacement issues ?
Did you move the original head unit to some place else?

CIGARGUY · 09-08-2010, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer12

The new HU was usually halfway decent as an amp, so I usually didn't bother with a 4ch amp...

You're ok with that and now you're worried about the SQ from an OEM head?! I'm confused.

808MGuy · 09-08-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CIGARGUY

You're ok with that and now you're worried about the SQ from an OEM head?! I'm confused.

I was just thinking the same thing. If you're ok with deck power and speakers then maybe you should actually wait until you hear the hi-fi system. Its not as bad as you think expecially compared to what you're used to. The only area it would be lacking is bass but that can be addressed with the addition of an amp and sub.

drummer12 · 09-08-2010, 05:03 PM

Like I said, I've only heard the base (non-HiFi) system and other lower-end cars. If indeed it isn't that bad...then maybe all I need would be just to add the amp/sub. I was just so used to stock SQ in most cars being so terribly bad, that even a low-end upgrade was sooo much better. At the same time, if the amp/speakers upgrade is simple and (relatively) cheap enough, then I'd go for it. By that I mean, maybe $500-600.

I think at this point I'll shut up and wait for the car to arrive before I contemplate the audio upgrade

Jedclampet · 09-08-2010, 05:10 PM

ctuna, I had the Mcintosh gear from a previous BMW X3 where the HU looked horrible in the dash the way this high end dealer installed it, though he installed the amp out of sight very well. And I guess due to poor planning I assumed it would also look horrible in this car (135i) and couldn't figue out where to put an amp. The XD series are quite small by comparison and fit under the floor in my trunk a XD 600/6 side by side a XD 600/1 with the Alpine CDA 117 in the dash. Then I started playing around with a spare Metra dash kit and fit The Mac HU in real flush and clean. The Mac is just a little sweeter sounding then the Alpine imo and also felt I would take a bath selling it on ebay. Then I guess the bug bit again I found with some careful work I could fit the Mac amp upside down under the rear deck in the trunk and run the front speakers and under seats through it and configure the XD 600/6 as a 3 way running the rear Morel Tempo's and the sub in a bridged mode, no longer needing the XD600/1. The XD600/1 is imo a great sub amp. I took my HU and Sat radio unit right out and packed it up in the garage, no more chimes is a bonus imo and no issues, errors, lights just sweet sound. Makes the wife a little edgy with a concert hall sound on every drive though. ctuna the speakers are all Morel MT 23 tweets door sill, CDM88's in the door, ADMW 9's under the seat and Tempo 4" in the rear deck. The MT 23 and CDM 88's are on channel 1&2 through the MX 22 X over and the under seats are channel 3&4 with the Tempo's on channel 5&6 when run on the XD 600/6. The amps have high and low pass filters allowing high pass on the fronts and rear with low pass on the under seats. I thought I did okay for an average mechanic type guy, it took a solid 3 days with the speaker mounts taking up the most time ( don't owm a router ).

ctuna · 09-08-2010, 06:38 PM

Jed ,I was wondering how you rate the JL xd600/6 amp against other amps you have had that weren't class d amps.

Jedclampet · 09-08-2010, 08:24 PM

ctuna, I don't have a good comparison for you since many things car included were changed at that time. With the equipement I have now as I haven't swapped in the Mac amp it sounds sweet. Once I swap in the Mac amp and give it a few days I could tell you what I feel is the difference between these two. Keep in mind the Mac is a 4 channel and more than twice the price.

TMR · 09-08-2010, 09:04 PM

With the MotusLab I find the sound quality to be pretty damn good. But then again, the AGW+ uses BurrBrown DA's

drummer12 · 09-08-2010, 09:25 PM

mmmm.... BurrBrown....

VP Electricity · 09-08-2010, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer12

Okay, so maybe I should have rephrased a bit...usually I see cars with simple preamp/amp integrated setups, not how the HiFi is setup in the BMW.

Read this yet?

http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...4&d=1278871872

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer12

-I have a JL W3v3 already that I will want to hook up - any options for sub level control outside of a remote?

Sure. Get rid of those useless rears and use the Rear output for the sub signal. Works great

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer12

-Would the DSP in this case be (mostly) unnecessary (aside from compensating for the acoustics of the car)?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer12

-I'm told the shallow mounting depth limits speaker options. But - looking at Crutchfield (for example), I find several that are less than 2" deep, yet not discussed here (or even available on the site as fitting the car)...and some of the ones here are deeper than the ones on Crutchfield...clearly I am missing something?

A, ignore those bozos..

B, coupe is way shallow, sedan less so. You have which?

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummer12

Anyway, I was mostly thinking of getting an amp and speakers if the HU output is indeed decent like everyone here seems to implicitly agree upon...

You are around 5V balanced. The preamp is strong and clean. You do need an amp with balanced inputs. Given your predilections, TruTech Billets and Zapco both work well.

Jed's system has a huge hole in it - between the notes the ADMW9 can get out from under the seat, and how low a Morel dome mid can go. I estimate a 2-octave dip, from around 150 to 600. Might be wrong, but that's my best estimate. Better to use a cone mid in that location, or use Jehnert door panels and dual 6.5".

So, drummer, maybe I've missed it, but coupe or sedan? And what budget range are you looking for?

drummer12 · 09-08-2010, 11:39 PM

Wow, neat document (what's the source?). 5V pres...impressive. Did not expect that at all.

I am getting the sedan. As far as budget, I was thinking not too much, maybe $500ish. Mostly thinking just amp/speakers, not sure if it makes sense at this price point. Also, wondering if it makes sense to forgo the 6ch amp for a 4ch one and drop the underseats since I already have a sub?

Reading lots of good things about the MS-8...just hard to justify spending $800 on top of all this other stuff when I haven't even heard the damn thing yet

And sadly, around here almost all of the custom audio shops have gone under so aside from knowing someone who has one, I'd be SOL.

At worst, I'd expect something decent in my car that can kick and play all genres of music well (thinking maybe 50w/ch or so). At best, I'd expect something to match the level of my HT setup at home (Pioneer Elite receiver, DefTech speakers, acoustical foam and diffusers, etc....of course that cost a lot more than $500...hehe).

09-08-2010, 09:22 AM	#1
drummer12 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 307 Posts Drives: 328i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	OEM HU SQ Got my 328i on order, so I guess I'll know the answer to this in a few weeks. Seems like every mod on here focuses on new speakers, amps, and DSPs out the wazoo. While that's cute and all...I'm curious as to the actual sound quality of the electronics of the OEM HU. Saying it has a flat response doesn't mean much if the DAC inside is a POS. I'm saying this coming from previous cars where I would swap out the HU for an aftermarket, and immediately would notice a HUGE difference in SQ, sans any DSP hoopla. (I'm not knocking DSPs; they can be great but if you got garbage in, then no amount of DSPs are going to prevent garbage out). Any specs of the HU alone? Anyone know what DAC is inside (I think I'm getting the 8 speaker HiFi stock so let's assume that config)?
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09-08-2010, 12:23 PM	#3
drummer12 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 307 Posts Drives: 328i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	Haha, not mocking It's just coming from a different place. The OEM HU in my Honda is/was a complete POS. Sounded horrid. I've had several HUs in the car (broken, stolen, etc.), and the difference at times was huge. Granted, the HU/amp in this particular case was integrated, and I have a JL sub setup in the back. But, coming from that environment, you can see why I was disappointed. I also (very briefly) tried out the stereo in the test drive for the 328i (integrated setup) and it was pretty bad as well. You do make some valid points; but the point I was making was that almost every solution was making the assumption that the OEM HU was plenty good to start with. Or, was your point that, it wasn't that great, and the DSPs are used to clean it up AND provide a better preamp signal? Seems like a lot of money/effort just to preserve some OEM integration... See, this forum needs more stickies/wikis so BMW n00bs like me don't have to search all day long for answers to obvious questions
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09-08-2010, 12:28 PM	#4
808MGuy Colonel 221 Rep 2,339 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Oahu, Hawaii iTrader: (3)	Similiar to what VP said, any benefit from an improved DAC is so miniscule in comparison to everything else that you'd probably not even notice it in an automotive environment. Having gone through many systems I have never noticed a significant improvement in just changing out a head unit when the internal amplifiers are not being used. The only time I noticed an improvement at all is when I went from using the preamp outputs to toslink out of the HU. Even then, the difference was not significant enough for me to spend an extra $1000+ on the gear that would be required to do such a thing in this car. I am not saying higher end DACs are worthless as they can make a difference when your in a listening environment that will allow you to hear them. Unfortunately, inside a moving car is not one of them. __________________ 2016 Porsche Cayman GTS - Sapphire Blue / Black Full Leather Interior / Carrera S Wheels
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09-08-2010, 12:39 PM	#5
drummer12 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 307 Posts Drives: 328i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	Okay, so maybe I should have rephrased a bit...usually I see cars with simple preamp/amp integrated setups, not how the HiFi is setup in the BMW. So an aftermarket setup can be a great improvement. So let me totally threadjack my own thread (lol) and ask the bigger question: in a HiFi setup, best way to improve sound w/o spending a fortune? -I have a JL W3v3 already that I will want to hook up - any options for sub level control outside of a remote? I really liked my level control within the HU -Would the DSP in this case be (mostly) unnecessary (aside from compensating for the acoustics of the car)? -I'm told the shallow mounting depth limits speaker options. But - looking at Crutchfield (for example), I find several that are less than 2" deep, yet not discussed here (or even available on the site as fitting the car)...and some of the ones here are deeper than the ones on Crutchfield...clearly I am missing something? Anyway, I was mostly thinking of getting an amp and speakers if the HU output is indeed decent like everyone here seems to implicitly agree upon...
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09-08-2010, 02:13 PM	#6
Jedclampet Private First Class 4 Rep 115 Posts Drives: 2011 X3 Black Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Northern Jersey iTrader: (0)	SQ I can see your point and came to my own conclusion. Seeing as the need for DSP's, summing, Most links, MS8's Bit ones etc. which can really run up the costs as compared to a dask kit form Metra and a new HU for as much or less money. With that said you must accept the change to what would be a seamless dash to one with a HU sitting right in the middle from a source other than BMW. So I installed a Mcintosh 406 renowned for its DAC and gave up the steering wheel controls altogether and can live with it. I'll try to get some pic's soon. The rest was simple replace all the speakers in there stock locations and add a sub. In my case Morel Elate MT-23, CDM 88's w/ MX 22 X over for the front , ADMW 9's underseats and Tempo Coax 4's in rear deck. And JL Audio ported Powerwedge W3V3 sitting behind pass seat. All run by a 4ch Mcintosh amp for the front under deck in trunk and a JL XD 600 for the rear and sub. I think its pretty stealth as in the stock speaker locations are easily used and the amps are pretty hidden too. If you can live with the looks of the dash and perhaps lack of steering wheel controls then its a very strong option IMO.
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09-08-2010, 02:28 PM	#7
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 300 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	In the old days, I would worry about this too. I would install expensive aftermarket head units to get a clean, strong signal to the amps. The amp(s) would be of high quality to produce a clean and strong signal for the speakers. The speakers would be of high quality to be able to reproduce - as best as possible - the signal coming from the amp(s). I thought this was the way to go. Signal processing was never on the table. I thought of it as another link in the chain, that would introduce noise and make the signal less "pure". I guess I was some sort of "purist" ? Today, I am no longer concerned about the quality (purity) of the signal coming from the HU, but rather with DSP proper processing to get the best possible sound quality out of the system. I have learned that a great DSP can take a good signal, clean it up, process it, and then send an altered signal to the OEM speakers, that is optimized for those same speakers and that same car. The result is sound quality I before never knew existed. I am talking about proper staging, imaging, tonality, and having all the speakers in the car work together in symphony. The "purity" of the original signal is no longer a concern to me.
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09-08-2010, 02:35 PM	#8
drummer12 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 307 Posts Drives: 328i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	Thanks, Jedclampet...you saw where I was going with this As I said in previous cars I basically tore out the HU and speakers, put in new ones and a sub. The new HU was usually halfway decent as an amp, so I usually didn't bother with a 4ch amp (plus, running new wires is NOT fun). Having said that, this 328i is a bit better than my Honda so I'm willing to invest a little more. I know I'm an idiot for posting w/o even truly hearing the system that I'll have in my car, but I got about 3 weeks until delivery and the anticipation is killing me (already have a list of mods and I don't even have the keys to the car). Ideally, I'd love to just use the existing setup and just do speakers and an amp, and throw in my existing amp/sub...but I'll have to see how feasible it is and how well everything works together. Another thing is that HD radio and iPod integration are non-negotiables...so that's another point for OEM. Jed, about how much did that setup run you? I've seen some pics of similar installs and they look very clean. Kaigoss, I think you see where I'm going as well...I'm sort of a purist also (on a budget, haha). Pardon my ignorance...I always thought of DSPs as more optimizing the signal for your car and maybe cleaning it up a bit...not so much trying to put lipstick on a pig. I haven't really head the A/B demos of them as of late, so maybe they're just awesome now, haha.
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09-08-2010, 03:10 PM	#9
ctuna Lieutenant General 1917 Rep 13,108 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Look at these links http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=365866 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138949 Last edited by ctuna; 09-08-2010 at 03:21 PM..
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09-08-2010, 03:34 PM	#10
Jedclampet Private First Class 4 Rep 115 Posts Drives: 2011 X3 Black Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Northern Jersey iTrader: (0)	SQ I had bought the Mac amp, HU and some of the Morels for my last BMW X3 some years ago all costly. Going from memory Amp $1200, HU $1000 speakers another $1000. This go round I added the ADMW's XD 600/6 and JL sub and alot of wire. I still have a Alpine CDA117 HU and a JL Audio sub amp XD 600/1 that I tried and are like new for sale for those looking to upgrade. As far as the work I did it all and running the wires wasn't as bad as other cars I owned. Guess sneaking the wires through the door trim rubber gromet hose thing took some time. My stock harness was never touched since I ran all new power, ground and speaker wires all this can be moved someday to my next toy. Finding a constant 12v, a switched 12v, a ground, dimmer and power antena weren't that hard either. Lastly the HU has an AUX input for my IPOD, which I ran a dock connector up to my hand brake area. I'll try to take some pic's soon.
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09-08-2010, 03:38 PM	#11
Jedclampet Private First Class 4 Rep 115 Posts Drives: 2011 X3 Black Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Northern Jersey iTrader: (0)	SQ I should point out I have a 135i with a base system, 4 inch no tweeters in the front doors and rear deck, the amp in the HU and I think there were 6.5's under the seat. All of which when sitting on the bench look like they came from Radio Shack. My father Mazda 3 sounded better, well now its night and day.
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09-08-2010, 03:40 PM	#12
ctuna Lieutenant General 1917 Rep 13,108 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Jed how do like the xd amp Jed how do like the xd amp and what speakers did you use with it.(specific models and sizes) Also whats your solution for the Head replacement issues ? Did you move the original head unit to some place else?
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09-08-2010, 05:03 PM	#15
drummer12 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 307 Posts Drives: 328i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	Like I said, I've only heard the base (non-HiFi) system and other lower-end cars. If indeed it isn't that bad...then maybe all I need would be just to add the amp/sub. I was just so used to stock SQ in most cars being so terribly bad, that even a low-end upgrade was sooo much better. At the same time, if the amp/speakers upgrade is simple and (relatively) cheap enough, then I'd go for it. By that I mean, maybe $500-600. I think at this point I'll shut up and wait for the car to arrive before I contemplate the audio upgrade
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09-08-2010, 05:10 PM	#16
Jedclampet Private First Class 4 Rep 115 Posts Drives: 2011 X3 Black Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Northern Jersey iTrader: (0)	SQ ctuna, I had the Mcintosh gear from a previous BMW X3 where the HU looked horrible in the dash the way this high end dealer installed it, though he installed the amp out of sight very well. And I guess due to poor planning I assumed it would also look horrible in this car (135i) and couldn't figue out where to put an amp. The XD series are quite small by comparison and fit under the floor in my trunk a XD 600/6 side by side a XD 600/1 with the Alpine CDA 117 in the dash. Then I started playing around with a spare Metra dash kit and fit The Mac HU in real flush and clean. The Mac is just a little sweeter sounding then the Alpine imo and also felt I would take a bath selling it on ebay. Then I guess the bug bit again I found with some careful work I could fit the Mac amp upside down under the rear deck in the trunk and run the front speakers and under seats through it and configure the XD 600/6 as a 3 way running the rear Morel Tempo's and the sub in a bridged mode, no longer needing the XD600/1. The XD600/1 is imo a great sub amp. I took my HU and Sat radio unit right out and packed it up in the garage, no more chimes is a bonus imo and no issues, errors, lights just sweet sound. Makes the wife a little edgy with a concert hall sound on every drive though. ctuna the speakers are all Morel MT 23 tweets door sill, CDM88's in the door, ADMW 9's under the seat and Tempo 4" in the rear deck. The MT 23 and CDM 88's are on channel 1&2 through the MX 22 X over and the under seats are channel 3&4 with the Tempo's on channel 5&6 when run on the XD 600/6. The amps have high and low pass filters allowing high pass on the fronts and rear with low pass on the under seats. I thought I did okay for an average mechanic type guy, it took a solid 3 days with the speaker mounts taking up the most time ( don't owm a router ).
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09-08-2010, 06:38 PM	#17
ctuna Lieutenant General 1917 Rep 13,108 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Jeb it sound like you have a lot of expierence Jed ,I was wondering how you rate the JL xd600/6 amp against other amps you have had that weren't class d amps.
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09-08-2010, 08:24 PM	#18
Jedclampet Private First Class 4 Rep 115 Posts Drives: 2011 X3 Black Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Northern Jersey iTrader: (0)	SQ ctuna, I don't have a good comparison for you since many things car included were changed at that time. With the equipement I have now as I haven't swapped in the Mac amp it sounds sweet. Once I swap in the Mac amp and give it a few days I could tell you what I feel is the difference between these two. Keep in mind the Mac is a 4 channel and more than twice the price.
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09-08-2010, 09:04 PM	#19
TMR Brigadier General 394 Rep 3,161 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Torrance iTrader: (12)	With the MotusLab I find the sound quality to be pretty damn good. But then again, the AGW+ uses BurrBrown DA's __________________ 2015 M3 BPM Tuned, Eibach, Magnaflow and more www.tmrmzine.com/m3/f80 SOLD E92 Slēk Carbon Fiber Widebody M3 www.tmrmzine.com/m3/slek/ SOLD E92 335i Stage 3+ with all the toys www.tmrmzine.com/335/ SOLD E39 M5 Modded, What a great car! www.tmrmzine.com/m5/
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09-08-2010, 09:25 PM	#20
drummer12 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 307 Posts Drives: 328i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	mmmm.... BurrBrown....
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09-08-2010, 11:39 PM	#22
drummer12 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 307 Posts Drives: 328i Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: DC iTrader: (0)	Wow, neat document (what's the source?). 5V pres...impressive. Did not expect that at all. I am getting the sedan. As far as budget, I was thinking not too much, maybe $500ish. Mostly thinking just amp/speakers, not sure if it makes sense at this price point. Also, wondering if it makes sense to forgo the 6ch amp for a 4ch one and drop the underseats since I already have a sub? Reading lots of good things about the MS-8...just hard to justify spending $800 on top of all this other stuff when I haven't even heard the damn thing yet And sadly, around here almost all of the custom audio shops have gone under so aside from knowing someone who has one, I'd be SOL. At worst, I'd expect something decent in my car that can kick and play all genres of music well (thinking maybe 50w/ch or so). At best, I'd expect something to match the level of my HT setup at home (Pioneer Elite receiver, DefTech speakers, acoustical foam and diffusers, etc....of course that cost a lot more than $500...hehe).
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