Here's the one thing I pray BMW does with the 1M

[crzy4135i]

I pray BMW uses slightly larger turbos on the N54 engined 1M. That way we'll have an oem turbo upgrade option for our 135i's. Slightly larger turbos will support higher airflow to maintain torque into the upper rpm's. Combine the larger turbos with aftermarket software and you're faster than a 1M.. for MUCH less money.

That's similar to the oem B5 RS4 turbos that are common to find on B5 S4s.

[twenzel]

meh... unlikely.

[amdmaxx]

need better cooling.. 1M will be designed around that, your 135 is not..

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

I pray BMW uses slightly larger turbos on the N54 engined 1M. That way we'll have an oem turbo upgrade option for our 135i's. Slightly larger turbos will support higher airflow to maintain torque into the upper rpm's. Combine the larger turbos with aftermarket software and you're faster than a 1M.. for MUCH less money.

That's similar to the oem B5 RS4 turbos that are common to find on B5 S4s.

Unfortunately for you the engine is based on the N55, already stated here by Scott26. And this engine (S55), will the basis for the F30 M3. So your prayers will not be answered. But, you could in theory, do a upgrade to the 1M engine to make it a F30 M3 engine, or just shove the new engine in...that's all pending when the new M3 comes out.

Kinda like taking the GT-R's (3.8 TT) engine and shoving it in the 370Z, or the 997.2 GT3 RS engine in the Cayman.

[Itanius]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Unfortunately for you the engine is based on the N55, already stated here by Scott26.

I searched through all his posts and couldn't find this reference. Can you link it please? Thanks.

[HERR FSTIR]

Scott reports 1M will use N55 variant.

See post #59.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by HERR FSTIR

Scott reports 1M will use N55 variant.

See post #59.

I guess someone should combine all the posts because I read a post somewhere on here that the newer engine didn't support the 1M production schedule.

[PrimoM3]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

I pray BMW uses slightly larger turbos on the N54 engined 1M. That way we'll have an oem turbo upgrade option for our 135i's. Slightly larger turbos will support higher airflow to maintain torque into the upper rpm's. Combine the larger turbos with aftermarket software and you're faster than a 1M.. for MUCH less money.

That's similar to the oem B5 RS4 turbos that are common to find on B5 S4s.

I also hope they use larger turbos, but not so I can swap them into the 135i. As said before, you're not going to have enough cooling, braking, grip, suspension, aero in the the 135i to take advantage of the power or warrant the price of the upgrade.

[Madozu]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

I guess someone should combine all the posts because I read a post somewhere on here that the newer engine didn't support the 1M production schedule.

Even if someone did that, you still won't get a definite answer. Scott mentioned the N55 variant in January and if i remember correctly again in March. Power was expected to be around 345hp at that time. Then this post from Scott26 mentions power "below 360PS".

Then there were lots of rumors by various sources on the net about the 1M engine being a tuned N54 ... but no real evidence. The rumor about problems getting the N55 ready was mentioned in Bimmercast #27, that can be downloaded here.

So what's the bottom line? We don't know

[clausy]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

need better cooling.. 1M will be designed around that, your 135 is not..

Unless you have a PPK installed :-)

[nordique14]

need a 135is version similar to the 335is. A 135i with the PPK (with overboost) and no sunroof would be very nice.

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by Madozu

Even if someone did that, you still won't get a definite answer. Scott mentioned the N55 variant in January and if i remember correctly again in March. Power was expected to be around 345hp at that time. Then this post from Scott26 mentions power "below 360PS".

Then there were lots of rumors by various sources on the net about the 1M engine being a tuned N54 ... but no real evidence. The rumor about problems getting the N55 ready was mentioned in Bimmercast #27, that can be downloaded here.

So what's the bottom line? We don't know

I think with all the finetuning done, i'm willing to bet it will have above 360PS, like around 375-380...it will be a beast...

[Madozu]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

I think with all the finetuning done, i'm willing to bet it will have above 360PS, like around 375-380...it will be a beast...

I will be the last one to complain about >360PS ^^

[DigIn3D]

we can only hope....

[RPM90]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

I pray BMW uses slightly larger turbos on the N54 engined 1M. That way we'll have an oem turbo upgrade option for our 135i's. Slightly larger turbos will support higher airflow to maintain torque into the upper rpm's. Combine the larger turbos with aftermarket software and you're faster than a 1M.. for MUCH less money.

That's similar to the oem B5 RS4 turbos that are common to find on B5 S4s.

It would be nice to have larger turbos for the 1M so that BMW can tune some more high rpm from it.

However, you're speculation that all you would need to do is get larger turbo's and a tune and you're faster than a 1M, that would only be somewhat true if you're comparing stock 1M to a modded 135i.
But, any tune you could do the 1M could do too, and even better.
Why? Because, BMW will probably strengthen some of the engine internals to get the increased power from the N54.
They have to warranty the vehicle for 50k miles, and potentially to 100k with an extended warranty.

To ensure longevity, BMW can't simply slap on some larger turbo's and a tune and call it day, like your typical backyard tuner, who takes warranty into their own hands.
So with strengthened internals, larger turbo's that type of 1M engine has the potential to see increased boost beyond what a stock 135i could do SAFELY.

A 135i would need the turbo's, better FMIC, and a tune, that all costs, and you don't have a warranty. If the 1M wanted more power and forgo the warranty, then it would only need a tune as it already would have the needed hardware to produce more power.

Those larger turbo's won't come cheap, you need two. Plus, you don't have the LSD, suspension, and BMW chassis tuning.
Yes, you could have a similarly fast 135i, but that's only in a straight line.
It would cost less, and that's all you'd get.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by RPM90

It would be nice to have larger turbos for the 1M so that BMW can tune some more high rpm from it.

However, you're speculation that all you would need to do is get larger turbo's and a tune and you're faster than a 1M, that would only be somewhat true if you're comparing stock 1M to a modded 135i.
But, any tune you could do the 1M could do too, and even better.
Why? Because, BMW will probably strengthen some of the engine internals to get the increased power from the N54.
They have to warranty the vehicle for 50k miles, and potentially to 100k with an extended warranty.

To ensure longevity, BMW can't simply slap on some larger turbo's and a tune and call it day, like your typical backyard tuner, who takes warranty into their own hands.
So with strengthened internals, larger turbo's that type of 1M engine has the potential to see increased boost beyond what a stock 135i could do SAFELY.

A 135i would need the turbo's, better FMIC, and a tune, that all costs, and you don't have a warranty. If the 1M wanted more power and forgo the warranty, then it would only need a tune as it already would have the needed hardware to produce more power.

Those larger turbo's won't come cheap, you need two. Plus, you don't have the LSD, suspension, and BMW chassis tuning.
Yes, you could have a similarly fast 135i, but that's only in a straight line.
It would cost less, and that's all you'd get.

You make very good points, especially about the lsd, etc. I guess I'm out of the game for now anyway. I decided to list my car and it sold within a week. I'm in the process of trying to move so hopefully the 1M offered for sale will be what I want.. and come out about the time I'm moved and ready for another new car.

[Artz 330]

how about we just wait for the official specs lol

[Advevo]

i just hope they run very low turbo pressure and that the hp is comming from the engine not from the turbo s. I drove time attack today in an evo 7 with more 500hp. When the turbo s running it s awesome fast. But the lag is to much for nice cornering and play with the throttle. So please let the engine do the work and let the turbo be on very low pressure to give engine some support.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by formula M

Why?

I think you have an extreme aversion for torque engines, not turbos. Also, the EVO's 2.0 engine is vastly different in design, than a 3.0 inline 6. You just don't like torque.

I question your post, because how often do you drive spirited below 1,800rpm's, or ever drop below 1,500 rpm's when on the track, let alone 1,300 for the N54/55..

What lag..? Or is it that the throttle response isn't the same?




Secondly, with near linear torque curve (N54), throttle work in the corners needs to be more precise. Because you have more torque, it's much more easier to break adhesion and needs more attention.... than to hold a gear and use the length of the high revving powerband, to throttle steer.


After reading many of your posts, it seems to me... that you simply enjoy the ease of drifting in a high revving motor, because each rpm means less. Thus, it is much more forgiving, so more vigilance can be spent on enjoying, or pointing the car..!

I doubt the S54 will be any less of a motor to use, than the LS6 powering the older Z06.

What are you talking about? Just because the N54 and N55 make peak torque at low RPMs doesn't mean every time you're above that RPM you can make peak torque instantly, every time you lift off the throttle and then get back on it, you sit and wait through that turbo lag again and this makes it harder to control the throttle with the granularity of a naturally aspirated engine.

Besides, if anything his post would indicate that he does like torque (since he was complaining about having to wait through the massive turbo lag of a 500hp Evo).

[Advevo]

formula ///M lots of guys are in the tuning scene. And they have rather 1000hp.

I drove an evo 7 yesterday more then 500 hp slicks better suspension etc. But can t enjoy the horse power and nm because the spoolup is to slow after you exit a corner and floor it. Everytime you loose lots of time there. It makes up for straights but you loose it at the next corner.

So turbo is fine. But spoolup and throttle response needs to be on the same level as high rev atmo engine if youre want to fully enjoy youre ///M on track.

For tuning boys on the straight it doesn t matter one bit. But then again is it ///M Motorsports or ///Marketing. An engine of the 135i is useless on track in comparisment of ///M engine like the E46 M3 and CSL. A 135 also had to much lag an low throttle response for trackdays. An E46 M3 is perfect for throttle steering. I have not found a turbo yet which can be throttle steered perfectly. I hope a 1///M does i wish.

1///M coupe needs throttle response and no lag. So there is only one way and that is that the 3.0 liter makes the most hp itself with very low boost turbo next to it. The more work the turbo does the more lag you will encounter if you go from off to on throttle. And throttle steering is out of the question.

[crzy4135i]

Originally Posted by Advevo

formula ///M lots of guys are in the tuning scene. And they have rather 1000hp.

I drove an evo 7 yesterday more then 500 hp slicks better suspension etc. But can t enjoy the horse power and nm because the spoolup is to slow after you exit a corner and floor it. Everytime you loose lots of time there. It makes up for straights but you loose it at the next corner.

So turbo is fine. But spoolup and throttle response needs to be on the same level as high rev atmo engine if youre want to fully enjoy youre ///M on track.

For tuning boys on the straight it doesn t matter one bit. But then again is it ///M Motorsports or ///Marketing. An engine of the 135i is useless on track in comparisment of ///M engine like the E46 M3 and CSL. A 135 also had to much lag an low throttle response for trackdays. An E46 M3 is perfect for throttle steering. I have not found a turbo yet which can be throttle steered perfectly. I hope a 1///M does i wish.

1///M coupe needs throttle response and no lag. So there is only one way and that is that the 3.0 liter makes the most hp itself with very low boost turbo next to it. The more work the turbo does the more lag you will encounter if you go from off to on throttle. And throttle steering is out of the question.

You have nothing to worry about. BMW will never sell a turbo car with that much lag. The evo's built for that hp level have huge turbos compared to stock.. and that's what causes the lag. Another thing is the target hp for the 1M isn't high enough that they need to worry about those issues. With the twin turbo setup, they could get ~380hp without lag, using just slightly larger turbos than what the 135i has.

If they raise the rev limit they'll have to use larger turbos because stock 135i turbos can't maintain the same boost at the higher airflow rates and still meet oem design specs of not running turbos to the ragged edge.

I'll bet money BMW doesn't use variable vane for the 1M.

[E82tt6]

Originally Posted by crzy4135i

You have nothing to worry about. BMW will never sell a turbo car with that much lag. The evo's built for that hp level have huge turbos compared to stock.. and that's what causes the lag. Another thing is the target hp for the 1M isn't high enough that they need to worry about those issues. With the twin turbo setup, they could get ~380hp without lag, using just slightly larger turbos than what the 135i has.

If they raise the rev limit they'll have to use larger turbos because stock 135i turbos can't maintain the same boost at the higher airflow rates and still meet oem design specs of not running turbos to the ragged edge.

I'll bet money BMW doesn't use variable vane for the 1M.

The N54 can easily make 380hp without lag with stock turbos after a thousand dollars in modifications. Hell it can make 380 without at the rear wheels (more like mid 400s at the crank) with full bolt-ons and an aggressive tune using street fuel...

The issue is WHERE it makes the power. The powerband needs to be moved up at least 500 rpms, preferably 1000 to have that "M" feel.