[Robin_NL]

Visited Paris last weekend. Spotted 4 other E90s. One 320d in SG from Spain. One Belgian 320d in Titan, A 330i in SG(French) and a German Titan 330i(S-tuttgart).

And mine off course

What's wrong with it/them? Only spotted about 7000 Minis, 100 996es(Porsche) and Boxsters, Audis A3(Sportsback) way too much, many Benzes C/E/S, not many 5 series(E60) , a Bentley Continental GT and a Ferrari F430(that's more like it )

I visited Paris many times before, much more BMW's in the past...

Dunno

[LEDZEP]

Who gives a crap what the French like. If they don't like BMW, then it is in the company of other things they don't like: Freedom, integrity, loyalty, and above all - courage. But at least they have a cute way of making toast.

[CC 330i]

My friend in France has a 540i. It's even a MANUAL!

[Ed_330i]

Originally Posted by LEDZEP

Who gives a crap what the French like. If they don't like BMW, then it is in the company of other things they don't like: Freedom, integrity, loyalty, and above all - courage. But at least they have a cute way of making toast.

wow man, what is going through your head?

the French dont like Freedom? they've had so many revolutions for their freedoms. Go read a book.

Integrity? Napoleans troops followed him through all of his trials in Russia.


Loyalty? Again, take a look At Napolean. Even in Defeat he returned to France to be honored. The people are loyal, no doubt.

Courage? they faced the Germans in WWI for ~5 years. Cant say that about America.

Chauvist, go read a book.

might have a E90, but a redneck at heart.

[CC 330i]

I see you omitted WWII from your list...

And the US did fight in WWI.

[Ed_330i]

wasnt exactly a list, more of a bullet. Yes, the US fought in WWII. Real Action in the European-theater began in the middle of 1944. 4 years after WWII began.
the Italian invasion wasnt too much successful, and Africa was no where near the main fighthing.
im sorry, but im

Where were the Peugeots and Citroens?

[CC 330i]

Originally Posted by Epyon

wasnt exactly a list, more of a bullet. Yes, the US fought in WWII. Real Action in the European-theater began in the middle of 1944. 4 years after WWII began.
the Italian invasion wasnt too much successful, and Africa was no where near the main fighthing.
im sorry, but im

Where were the Peugeots and Citroens?

Yeah, the US was "late" to both WWI and WWII. Most people in the US didn't feel that it was in the US interest to get involved until Japan attacked Hawaii. (Where have you heard that before?) But did you ever hear of D-DAY or the Normandy Invasion by any chance?

[Ed_330i]

Read my posts buddy, June 6, 1944 was D-day. Techinally June 1 was D-day but bad-weather cancelled it. So June 6 is the Normandy Invasion.
Jan, Feb, Mar, April, May, June
by my count June is the sixth month, which i would call the middle since we operate in a 12 month calendar year. so my post was completey accurate.
I know what you mean about Pearl Harbor, but care to check my post where i said European theater. Europe is no where near the Pacific ocean.
I know my History quite well.

By 1944 the Germans/Nazis were crushed at Stalingrad (19 August 1942 - 2 February 1943)
by '44 Leningrad was free (if i remember correctly) and the Largest tank battle took place already at Kursk.
To be honest, i still consider myself a Soviet Citizen, i learned this History well.

[CC 330i]

Gotcha. You know history too. But saying the French fought the Germans for 5 years before the US isn't true. France laid down for Nazi Germany, and only a very small number of fighters made up the French resistance. Everyone else played along with Hitler until Britain and the US showed up.

[Imperial]

oooh oooh, WWII stuff, here's my favorite -


the US kept out of the European fighting mainly because, as said, they figured it wasn't their problem. Europe was duking it out again, so let them deal, no need to get involved in another mess there, especially after WWI. Same with the Japanese rampaging through Asia. After the Germans invaded the USSR, the US stood even further back as they hoped that the fascist dictators Hitler and Stalin would just take care of each other. The US sent a lot of goods and aid to the UK via Atlantic sealanes, but millions of tons of it ended up at the bottom of the ocean courtesy of the German u-boat wolfpacks. Of course, profiteers here also sold tons of goods kinda quietly to the fascists, as well, but 'officially' the US disapproved of them (even though there was a quiet approval of Hitler's campaign against the Jews an Gypsies and such since they were considered as undesirables by many here, as well). The conflict, although terrible, was not an American problem. For the moment...

When the petroleum situation started to get dire in Japan, things started to get heated (sound familiar?). They looked to attack the US, cripple her Pacific fleet, and then have free reign over oil supplies in the Pacific and over whichever territories they wanted. SO they attacked at Pearl Harbor and annihilated most of the US Navy's Pacific fleet (except the carriers, which ended up biting them in the butt later at Midway). At THAT point, the US declared war on Japan. Then, Nazi Germany declared war on the US in accordance with the Rome-Berlin-Tokyo Axis AND the fact that the Japanese had hinted that they'd open up a second front against the Russians, which the Germans desperately needed at this point. SO now the US was fully involved in WWII. Course by the time they setup shop in the (hammered) UK and started air-raids over occupied France and the German homeland, it took quite some time, which only figures as it was a HUGE undertaking. 1942 saw the earliest American action against the Germans and the Japanese. Don't forget Pearl Harbor was in December 1941.


For the record, France did help quite a bit against the Germans. Yeah they surrendered pretty quickly but the Germans had taken Paris in a matter of days. They'd trampled through Holland and Belgium and, to most everyone's surprise, through the Ardenne forest. The French were left going "WTF!?!?" (in Francaise, of course) and everyone else was kinda like "wow, that was...impressive." The Free French, though, were an integral part of the Allied war effort. Without their resistance efforts in Occupied France, the war would likely have dragged on much longer. Of course, in contrast to all the things the Free French did, there's also Vichy France.


So really, the French aren't quite as spineless as some would have people believe. Remember that the American Revolution would also have taken a much different path if the French hadn't joined up with the Americans to help fight the British, but how quickly (and conveniently) people forget, heh.


Not taking sides or anything here, just expanding on the WWII talk and kinda playing devil's advocate

[deutschmann59]

I think what CC 330i is trying to say is we fought in France during WWII and liberated their country from the Nazis. We lost a lot of our men during D-Day, and you'd think they'd be greatful. But let's be honest here...I don't think I'm wrong by saying the majority of the French hate Americans. I don't know why, but it seems like they are against us in everything we do. And it's not just Bush. It's a known fact he French hated Clinton too.

I'd say there's been a lot of tension between the US and France since September 11. The least we could hope for is their support after being attacked, but what do they do, even after we bailed them out in WWII? They stabbed us in the back. Remember the idea of renaming the "french fry" to the "freedom fry"?

http://slate.msn.com/id/2077874/

[Ed_330i]

Originally Posted by CC 330i

Gotcha. You know history too. But saying the French fought the Germans for 5 years before the US isn't true. France laid down for Nazi Germany, and only a very small number of fighters made up the French resistance. Everyone else played along with Hitler until Britain and the US showed up.

dude, you dont read my posts at all. i SAID WWI.

[deutschmann59]

Very nice, Imperial! You definitely didn't sleep through history class! Yeah, I don't hate the French. I can't generalize them because you can never generalize a whole country and think EVERYONE in that group is the same, because that is just ignorant.

But it's a simple fact that the French REALLY don't like us, and we kinda thought all this while we had their support.

[Imperial]

thanks sharp! I'm a bit into WWII, haha


yeah, generalizations are something to be careful with. One shouldn't really base their opinion of an entire population on rumors and stories and the behavior of a few.


but I WILL say that the French are, for the most part, very....French

[deutschmann59]

Hey, I've played piano for about 14 years. My favorite piece to play is definitely "Clair de Lune" by Claude Debussy, which I think is arguably one of the most beautiful pieces ever composed. That song took me 4 years straight to learn!

[Imperial]

14 years says you?! Imperssive. But Debussy? C'mon man, Chopin is where it's at


or Schubert. I love his impromptus. Those are beautiful.

[deutschmann59]

No arguments about Chopin or Schubert! My all time favorite by Schubert is of course Ave Maria. But the reason I'm not all that in to Chopin is because I tried to learn ONE nocturne and got so fed up I quit trying to learn Chopin for good (or at least for a while)

That guy is just on another level...I'm not really sure I'll ever get that good!

[ssam]

WTF are you speaking about?

I lived many years in France and what you are saying is completly wrong !!
French people do like americans....they were the first one who helped americans during the revolution....and the liberty statue at nyc is a gift from France !!

Considering what happening in the last few years is completly different.....French people HATE the way the american government is acting without any respect for the international laws (UNO, Kyoto, canadian wood...)

Saying that they don t like Bush is completly true but Clinton was famous there and the majority of french people liked him a lot....even after his affair with Monica

What you should realize is that the new american foreign policy is hated all around the world.....not only in France....the Bush government is considered as arrogant and irespectfull off all the international laws

And you are doing a big amalgam if you still consider that the war in Irak is related to September 11th......

thanx god all americans are not as ignorant as you are LEDZEP

[deutschmann59]

Originally Posted by ssam

I lived many years in France and what you are saying is completly wrong !!.....

What you should realize is that the new american foreign policy is hated all around the world.....not only in France....the Bush government is considered as arrogant and irespectfull off all the international laws

I'm sorry, ssam. I didn't mean to offend anyone. The truth is, I HAVEN'T ever lived in France, so I can't honestly say what anyone over there is thinking. I can't prove that they would act violent towards visiting Americans. I don't think they would, but then again, I don't know anyone over there who can speak for the general population and their overall feelings. When I say they hate us but we bailed them out in WWII, I'm only repeating what I've heard other people here say...that scenerio was pretty popular a few years ago.

But you have to admit, when everything was going on with the US trying to go war with Iraq back in 2003, France was the leader of the opposition. Now pretty much the whole world is against it. Even lots of people here think it was a mistake. I'm not going to argue my thoughts as to whether or not it was right, but I guess we Americans thought we'd have better support than we did.

[tsoc88]

As a very frequent visitor to France, I have learned three things:
1) The French do like Americans, they just figured out almost 6 years before we did that it was our President who is the incompetent one.
2) The French are always amused at BMW owners who think they know something about French culture, french toast and anything French in general.

[ssam]

being against the war in Irak doesn t mean that you are against america !!!!
you can love america but doubt about the purpose of a war, like most of canadians do....

You can be thankfull to america and to us army for WW2 and still be against the irakian war......people in france and even here in canada didn t understood why critics were so strong against France (throwing away champagne and calling freedom fry was crazy !?!)

When you say that France didn t support USA after september 11th it s not right......France condemned the terrorist attack but said that it wasn t related to Irak and that doing this war was a mistake and would even produce more terrorism
Canada, Deutchland, Russia, China and many other countries were against this war as well....
France didn t support that war because it was convinced that it was a mistake....and the proof is that we never found weapons of mass destruction.....( weapons of mass distraction :-) )

Every one all around the world and even in USA know the real purpose of this war: black oil

[AskNiko]

The French... a topic that will always get Americans going. On an individual level, the French folks that I've had interaction with have been decent people. Now their leaders and policies as a nation, that's something else. The French, in my opinion are very selfish and only does what is good for France (example: Charles DeGaulle). And yes, they have a track record of undermining non-French initiatives.

To bring the subject back to cars, their top three are: Renault, Citroen and Peugeot. I learned to stay away from French cars at an early age due a really bad Renault my dad owned in the '70s. I did however rented some Renault's and Citroen's while travelling in Europe and particularly liked the Renault Laguna. The first time I experienced driving a car with a push button start similar to the E90's was in a Renault Megane, a car that is futuristic but butt ugly. The handling was nowhere near BMW standards but the car can actually go fast. The French car industry seems to be very agressive in styling, technology and improving the reliability of their cars. I also noticed that French cars seems to sell very well in Spain, Turkey, Greece, and in the U.K.. This aggressive stance is also reflected on Nissan cars, which is now mostly owned by Renault.

To answer the original question, I'm assuming that previous French bimmer drivers are now driving Renaults because they seem to be pushing car technologies like BMW and to show more of their nationalism.