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      07-13-2010, 05:57 PM   #1
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Post Arm Chair CEO time!




First off, I would like to thank the current 1addicts and newcomers for keeping it relatively civil. There has been a crazy BOOM of info and interest with the "Official" teasing. We're all very passionate about BMW's or we honestly wouldn't be here. I'm sure you've all met a lot of people that didn't have a clue what an automotive forum is. We've all injected various opinions and have not let it get too personal.

As I scroll over the board I see a lot of speculation. Some of it is very positive and the others are not so much. I've come to ask myself a question: How does BMW build a 1M that is fantastic without stepping too much on the toes of the BMW M3? Lets be realists here. It has to be done.

There is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that the 1M will outperform the M3 in certain aspects. Why? Acceleration tests done in the top gear show that a stock 135i is a little faster than a 6MT M3. I can't speak for the M-DCT.The 1M will clearly get more torque. By the time the 1M hits U.S. shores the E9X will have been on sale for almost 4 years. That is a good length of time. I also look toward the M3 vs M6 comparison. The M3 came a two model years after the M6 and had almost identical acceleration under 100mph. To many that didn't make sense. A 58k car vs a 100k car. They were faced with the same issue. How to make the M3 fantastic without blowing the M6 out of the water. They pulled it off.

My prediction is that the handling capabilities of the 1M will lie in between the base M3 and the M3 with competition package. That way BMW can force M buyers with potentially bruised egos to pay the $2900 for the ZCP. Who knows? The Competition package could become standard at the very end.
My mind changes daily on the acceleration figures. The 335i outperformed the E46 in every measurable way(not talking feel). BMW would never advertise that. The stiff competition from Infiniti and similar forced their hand.

Once again, how does BMW not allow the 1M to destroy the M3? The first thing that comes to my mind is limiting the transmission choice to a 6MT. When its all said and done I predict the weight difference will be about 200lbs at max. Instead of nitpicking over every single aspect(quads,sound,etc) we need to look at the bigger picture here. BMW's promised the car to be a relatively affordable M car. Most reports point to it starting less than 50k. That is great news in itself if true. The most important question is will it take the 1series to a whole new level. The answer has to be yes. Why? Because I dont recall BMW shining to much light on an M product for the world to watch and then embarrass themselves.

I'd like some insights into the minds of the 1addicts owners/enthusiasts. In the end it will come down to whether BMW is worried about the M3 or competition. I'm glad I'm not making these decisions. The 3 series franchise is without doubt the breadwinner for the company. The rule of thumb is to not put it in much jeopardy. I'm guessing most of us are educated. We could understand that.

How much should the 1M break rank?

M POWER!
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      07-13-2010, 06:31 PM   #2
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Great post. As an initial "test-bed" if you will for the engine in the upcoming (F30) M3, I don't see a problem with the 1M breaking rank in terms of acceleration against the E9x M3. Though, I'm not sure this would be advertised, kind of like the 335 vs E46 M3 comparison that was mentioned. I would also imagine that this engine installed in the F30 M3 would be in a higher state of tune allowing it to outperform the 1M. With similar performance across the M models, I still view them serving slightly different purposes. For example:

1M: Aimed towards serious enthusiasts who are looking for a performance car that is getting back to basics and is right at home on a track, but is still suitable for a daily driver.
M3: A car still aimed towards enthusiasts, but who are also looking for a little more room and luxury making it a best of both worlds drivers car.
M5/M6: Aimed towards those who are looking for the ultimate in grand touring and performance.
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      07-13-2010, 06:57 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
Great post. As an initial "test-bed" if you will for the engine in the upcoming (F30) M3, I don't see a problem with the 1M breaking rank in terms of acceleration against the E9x M3. Though, I'm not sure this would be advertised, kind of like the 335 vs E46 M3 comparison that was mentioned. I would also imagine that this engine installed in the F30 M3 would be in a higher state of tune allowing it to outperform the 1M. With similar performance across the M models, I still view them serving slightly different purposes. For example:

1M: Aimed towards serious enthusiasts who are looking for a performance car that is getting back to basics and is right at home on a track, but is still suitable for a daily driver.
M3: A car still aimed towards enthusiasts, but who are also looking for a little more room and luxury making it a best of both worlds drivers car.
M5/M6: Aimed towards those who are looking for the ultimate in grand touring and performance.

+1

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      07-13-2010, 07:04 PM   #4
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Every M car, is a car to lust for. I cannot see the 1M falling short in any aspect.

I will be patient and waiting for the first reviews from across the pond.
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      07-13-2010, 07:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCSU View Post
Great post. As an initial "test-bed" if you will for the engine in the upcoming (F30) M3, I don't see a problem with the 1M breaking rank in terms of acceleration against the E9x M3. Though, I'm not sure this would be advertised, kind of like the 335 vs E46 M3 comparison that was mentioned. I would also imagine that this engine installed in the F30 M3 would be in a higher state of tune allowing it to outperform the 1M. With similar performance across the M models, I still view them serving slightly different purposes. For example:

1M: Aimed towards serious enthusiasts who are looking for a performance car that is getting back to basics and is right at home on a track, but is still suitable for a daily driver.
M3: A car still aimed towards enthusiasts, but who are also looking for a little more room and luxury making it a best of both worlds drivers car.
M5/M6: Aimed towards those who are looking for the ultimate in grand touring and performance.
This makes sense.

Honestly, they'll keep the 1M in check by detuning it, or under-rating it. 360hp would be a driver's race.

If the engine actually is to be used in the next M3 motor, it'd be in an extremely de-tuned state at that point.

The fact that it will outhandle the M3 (which it will, unless it has garbage tires, or they add 300lbs of weight to it) its irrelevant, because 0-60 times sell more cars.
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      07-13-2010, 10:58 PM   #6
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Nice
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      07-13-2010, 11:06 PM   #7
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Excellent posts. I really want this car.
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      07-14-2010, 12:47 AM   #8
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I want the 1M to be a flop so I that don't want to have one

Just kidding. I think the 1M will be awesome. Why would the CEO of BMW M release a video where he says that it will be "M Pure" and give "goosepimples" if he didn't believe the car would be that awesome. Maybe his job isn't on the line here but I'm sure he doesn't want to make a fool out of himself and have everyone lose respect for him. So I think everyone that was saying "oh this is a 135is" is now saying that "it won't be great." Like the BMW M CEO said "it will come, but you will have to wait." Let's just wait and see.

Great post BForbes.
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      07-14-2010, 08:25 AM   #9
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The engine in the 1M will be the test bed for the upcoming F30 M3. Hearing the concerns of the faithful, high revving, great sound, plenty of available power at all rpms, etc. etc.... I can not see how the M division can market this car as a just a minor improvement over a 135i. If the 1M engine is a "detuned" version of the 400+HP engine destined for the new M3, so be it. The additional time it takes for this car to come to market will give M a chance to improve it and make additions that will enhance the experience of car ownership. At one time, didn't Scott26 say that the heads of BMW drove around in an early test mule of the 1M and told the engineers to try again?

As far as pricing, if the 1M starts at $47K, this car will be a game changer for the M division. The Audi TTS starts at 47K, and I see this as the only premium performance coupe sold in the US that has direct competition with the 1M. Mustang GTs and Shelby Mustangs appeal to a different market, and are priced and equipped accordingly. The "other" car manufacturers in the game have little to interest me at the price point of the 1M.

Bottom Line: I am fired up about this car! If this car revives the feeling I had when I drove my E30 325i in Germany so many years ago, then it will be a hit. The concerns over "outperforming" a E9X M3 are pointless, as both are two different cars, IMHO, and the performance bar for the M3 will be raised again with the F30 version. I am very entertained with reading articles from the Automotive Press writers that attended the same event, on the same day, and have so many divergent opinions. I look forward to forming my own when behind the wheel of a production version of the 1M Coupe.
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      07-14-2010, 08:47 AM   #10
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I think the only way the 1M will be released in a configuration that outperforms the current M3 for less money is if the M3 is simultaneously offered in a tweaked configuration that keeps it somewhat ahead. BMW isn't in this to please 1Addicts. They are in this to make money. There is no reason for them to undersell themselves.

The other, more likely scenario is that, despite Scott's assurances, the reality is they give us a 135is with some extra M parts and branding. This makes good sense from a financial point of view. It requires less investment and is basically a marketing project which car companies are very used to doing.

As much as we all want an uber-1 that beats even an M3, BMW will always want to invest its money where it gets the best return.
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      07-14-2010, 09:17 AM   #11
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Great post Bforbes!!!

You know from my prior posts, I am one who believes they need to make the 1m as fast or faster than the current M3 and have the new upcoming M3 monsterfied...give the new M3 the power it deserves....500 hp club and no less..other brands are quickly on it's heels at a much cheaper price. Low 4's and mid 12's are the only acceptable figures for the 1M...and of course it needs to handle like a true M.. Someone mentioned they are not designing this car for the addicts or fans ..but are doing so for the financial aspect of it... I do not think so, they are well aware of us freaks..and very certain they are aware of these forums .. Give the freaks what they want MORE POWER.
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      07-14-2010, 09:41 AM   #12
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Wow, talk about a thought provoking post.

I think that the 1M will have a slower 0-60 time (on paper) than the M3 but the mid-range will be faster. I think that the kind of folks who would have the biggest problem with the 1M being faster won't look too much past the 0-60.
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      07-14-2010, 10:24 AM   #13
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Thanks for insight fellas!

BMW's intentions will reveal itself soon enough.
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      07-14-2010, 10:36 AM   #14
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Excellent analysis Bforbes,
I only disagree with the DCT-issue:
1: Development costs for the 1M DCT will be next to nothing as it was already coupled with the N54 and N55, contrary to the M3, where there was some development work involved to mate the DCT to the V8;
2: Scotts recent comment on (overwhelming) consumer preference of auto/DCT vs manual.

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      07-14-2010, 10:53 AM   #15
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Wasn't there a point in time were the Z3 MCoupe was the fastest car in the BMW lineup? I seem to remember this being the case in the late 90's. Seems that this is a precedent for a car lower on the totem pole outperforming the M3.
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      07-14-2010, 11:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkbr0wn View Post
Wasn't there a point in time were the Z3 MCoupe was the fastest car in the BMW lineup? I seem to remember this being the case in the late 90's. Seems that this is a precedent for a car lower on the totem pole outperforming the M3.
+1

It just can't out perform it on paper .
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      07-14-2010, 11:57 AM   #17
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Excellent post BF

I particularly agree with this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BForbes View Post
I dont recall BMW shining too much light on an M product for the world to watch and then embarrass themselves.
///M really wants to get this right, and I'm inclined to believe them. This car will be about bringing new customers into the fold and adding some excitement to the brand. It will be "pure" (Dr. Kay) and very special.
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      07-14-2010, 08:08 PM   #18
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I think part of the reason for bringing the 1M to market is that the M3 has matured into a different car than what it used to be. The e30, e36 and e46 versions enjoyed a certain small scale and agility that the e90/92 is missing. This is true of the regular three series as well, and it is the normal evolution of cars as they inevitably get larger and larger with each successive generation.

BMW has rightly recognized this and is starting to fill the void in the lineup. In essence, the 1M is the rebirth of the M3. I wonder if years down the road the 1M replaces the M3 as the quintessential M division model.
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      07-15-2010, 02:40 AM   #19
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That is it. I like driving/racing, so I would get an M1. If plus to driving/racing I wanted to park my car in front of the CLUB and get 3 chics out of the car I would get M3 (and not RS5, I find the M3 more masculin).
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      07-15-2010, 08:00 AM   #20
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Only part that I am not too thrilled about this affordable M car is the weight, wish it was 200 lbs less in some way but then it drives up the cost and creates a conflict. I think I will be one of the 1st owners of this bimmer in my town.
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      07-15-2010, 08:27 AM   #21
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If the M1 will weigh 20 kg less than 135i is a very good thing, because at least it will not add weight, 100 kg, like all other M cars.
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      07-15-2010, 03:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E82tt6 View Post
The fact that it will outhandle the M3 (which it will, unless it has garbage tires, or they add 300lbs of weight to it) its irrelevant, because 0-60 times sell more cars.
This is true. I've already gone into it with a friend of mine that owns a 135i and says the M is a waste because he can just mod his car to get more power out of it. I got tired of repeating myself that there is more to a car than just horsepower.
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