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Why does 330 feel less powerful at lower revs?
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05-01-2005, 01:48 PM | #1 |
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Why does 330 feel less powerful at lower revs?
Jwocky, anyone else, I need your wise words.
Test drove 330i with stick. Nice ride. I won't bore everyone with repeated experiences, except for something I've read in the last few days that I also experienced. When I floored the car it felt like there was a hesitation in terms of torque and power. It wasn't that the car didn't move, but at low revs it just didn't kick in right away. Then there was a sudden and clearly discernible jump in power at around 5000-5500 rpms (I think-I was trying to watch the road so I didn't crack up a brand new e90). I've read that this may be a matter of the 6-speed, but I've driven a 2005 zhp 6 speed and it threw me back in my seat from the moment you touch the accelerator. I know engines break in, but is this lesser power at lower revs really going to change that much over time? I'm no expert, but it concerned me. I would think that, even though engines break in, it should feel about 95% of what it's going to be out of the box. Am I wrong? Also, does anyone here have an opinion about the feel of the e90 vs the 2005 e46zhp in terms of the ride quality? In other words, how much more comfortable is the ride of the e90 vs the zhp? I ask because I', still tempted to get an e46 zhp but I don't want to feel like I've sacrificed too much in the ride. Thanks all! sparky |
05-01-2005, 02:12 PM | #2 |
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Hesitation
I noticed it also on the course in the high performance intro I attended yesterday. But the car I was driving had the steptronic trans and I attributed it to that. Now you say you noticed it on a man. trans you have me worried as well. It was there every time coming out of a corner if you came completely off the accelerator and then put your foot in it.
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05-01-2005, 07:24 PM | #4 |
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Noticed the same issue when i test drove the 330i AT last week. Not sure what the delay in response was, but when i used steptronic to shift it worked fine.
I figured this would be a change in engine software that can fix this. N |
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05-01-2005, 08:56 PM | #6 |
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I just drove a 6sp 330i Sport\Perf E90 today and was wondering that myself. It's not to say that the car is a slouch because it is far from it. It's just that the first stage seems to have quite a bit less power. When I got on the gas to test out the acceleration on a backroad, I felt like the lower RPMs weren't pulling. When it hit about 4500-5000 RPM the car definitely felt 'stronger'. I went throught the first 3 gears until about 75 mph before slowing down. To confirm what I felt, I repeated the test on another adjacent road until about 70 mph. It felt the same.
Tomorrow I am heading back to try the 05 ZHP. Unfortunatley, I don't think that they happen to have a 6sp ZHP on the lot so it won't be an 'apples to apples' comparison. Car info: The car had 321 mi when I got in it. It was fully loaded minus the Nav\iDrive. |
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05-01-2005, 09:10 PM | #7 |
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Launch hesitation
What I felt wasn't a slower excelleration, it was a momentary hesitation on flooring the accelerator. I'm not certain that in my case it was not the DSC sticking its nose in.
Next time someone experiences any of this try turning the DSC system completely off and see what happens. |
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05-01-2005, 10:59 PM | #9 |
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Good idea on DSC
CaptJack: Great idea on the DSC. It was definitely ON when I drove. Dealer even pointed it out to me. I'll go back and try with DSC turned off. Let's all keep each other informed on this.
sparky |
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05-01-2005, 11:01 PM | #10 |
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thanks for keeping us updated, i appreciate your input becasue i cannot test drive here yet.
matt
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05-01-2005, 11:12 PM | #11 |
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pls do post your DSC-off experience :-)
I think I need to go for one more test drive to make sure as well. I noticed the same issue you guys mentioned and it just turned me off. I am pretty happy about the car except for this problem. :-( |
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05-02-2005, 03:07 PM | #13 |
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Well, to me it seems like this could be 1 of 3 thinks.. (dont forget, i havent driven the e90 330i yet, so take what I say with a grain of salt
1) DSC - DSC is actually a 2 stage system, first stage is engine braking, the second stage is modulating the actual brakes. When the DSC system does engine braking, it doesnt flash the DSC warning light at you, so its somewhat invisible, but if you know your car well, you know when its being activated. If you just floor a 330i, it has enough power to easily spin the tires, and activate DSC. If you dont floor it quite all the way, you may chirp the tires, which may not force DSC to mess with the brakes, but would still activate the engine braking. When this happens, you do notice a sudden rush of power after DSC releases the engine braking.. Try accelerating the car with DSC completly off (dont just press the dsc button to turn it off. You have to press and hold the button down for 5-10 seconds, so activate both stages. im not sure about the e90, but on the e46 the DSC light would go on, and a second BRAKE light will go on to tell you both stages are off) 2) Differentials - the new E90 may have a less agressive differential which would lower the off the line acceleration speed in the name of gaining more top end power. It'd be interested in finding out the ratio of the e90 330i's differntial, but im too busy at work right now 3) Thats just the way the engine is. - well, none of us want to hear this option, but it might be a "characteristic" of the new engine. I feel like this new engine has some untapped power potential, maybee this is purposeful muffling by BMW, it wouldn't be the first time BMW has done that. Interested in the test drives people do without DSC |
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05-03-2005, 11:26 AM | #15 |
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I'm gonna to test drive one today, hopefully i'll be the first one to post with the DSC off..... I'll let you guys know as soon i get home!!! In my opinion, the 330 hasn't increase much torque but mostly horsepower and higher redline..... 330 gain almost 150 pounds while the torque stay about the same... it's probably slower than ZHP off the line but it's definately faster on the top end..... just my opinion!!!! I own a Celica GT-S manual and I can tell you that the lower end, is in fact, slower than a GT because of the higher redline but when you get past 6k rpm.... the GT-S fly!!!! I can see the familarity between the GT-S and 330.....
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05-03-2005, 01:12 PM | #16 |
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This is such a rumor it's not even funny anymore. I feel zero low end difference between the E46 and E90. What I do feel is more top end power, and that's what's screwing you guys up. When you drive a car that has a real shove in the high end, the low end always feels much weaker than it actually is because you aren't used to having that much of an increase at high rpms. This is not a celica gt vs. celica gt-s scenario. The difference isn't that big. The gt-s celica (same motor as the elise) has nothing down low and is an entirely different motor than the gt. The E90 and E46 motor share a whole lot of DNA. They're the same displacement and both variable twin cam motors. BMW was just able to push the high end out a bit further in the E90.
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05-03-2005, 05:45 PM | #17 |
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Just to be clear, since I started this post to help all of us make informed decisions:
1: What I felt driving the 330i was a CLEAR HESITATION at lower rpms. It was NOT my imagination. It was real. It happened every time I stepped on the gas. Without exception. 2: The engine overall felt very strong and smooth. I wasn't knocking the engine in terms of overall power, but the thing should NOT hesitate like that. It's a freakin' BMW, not a Cadillac. It should thrust forward, without hesitation. If I want hesitation I'll buy a GM product. 3: I am NO expert. Maybe this is caused by the fact that the engine is new. Maybe it's DSC. Maybe it's an emissions thing. I honestly don't know. But it's not a rumor. When people say they feel this it's because they feel it. It's not our collective imaginations. It's something that is serious enough to warrant an answer. I'm going to ask my favorite dealer because I trust him. But there's this thing out there, and until I figure it out I am not sold on the e90. I have a feeling it'll all sort itself out fine. BMW makes amazing cars. But this is a new production model. Maybe they haven't worked the bugs out just yet. Any thoughts from anyone are most welcome. Me, I'm just a writer so I don't know much about engines. I just know that every e46 I ever drove or rode in threw me back into my seat from just a touch of the accelerator. Without hesitation. I kinda like that. cheers. sparky |
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05-03-2005, 10:52 PM | #18 | |
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05-03-2005, 11:09 PM | #19 |
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Sounds likes DBW (drive-by-wire) throttle delay. Due to software. The E46 was the 1st 3-Series to have the DBW and former E36 owners were totally turned off by this, some even unloaded the car because of this and the isolation in road feel and steering. It so happens these are some of the reasons I got bored with my 330Ci.
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05-03-2005, 11:38 PM | #20 |
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I agree. I've heard of low RPM hesitation problems with other BMW products that were normally cured by software upgrades. In those cases, it wasn't always on every car either so you would see similar discussions of some people noticing it and others not.
So far, I haven't seen any magazine reviews that mention it though. |
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05-03-2005, 11:41 PM | #21 |
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I kind of agree on mfstout for the new engine theory, maybe it is could be simple as that the engine is new?? I also am no expert on this area, but it would be great if some kind member on this forum, which owns a e90 for a while to test the low rpm problem.
I also agree with mfstout that I wouldn't buy a BMW if this is a permanant problem on the e90. Please keep the test comming |
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05-04-2005, 12:51 AM | #22 |
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So I noticed this a bit only once in my drive last night of a 330i SG, Step, no sport package.
As I was driving the car out of the dealership in the lot I noticed a slight hesitation as I feathered the pedal. It happened a couple times after one another and it was a bit disconcerting. Once I was out of the dealer it was either in S mode or manually being shifted and I don't recall feeling the same thing again. If it was there it was so reduced that I couldn't tell. At this point I still don't know what to make of this whole thing. |
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