San Diego BMWCCA HPDE at Buttonwillow - 6/12-6/13

94is · 05-12-2010, 11:59 AM

Last day to register online: Thu Jun 10, 2010
When and where? Saturday, June 12 and Sunday, June 13, at Buttonwillow Raceway Park. (www.buttonwillowraceway.com).

The track is on the West side of Interstate 5 at the Lerdo Hwy exit between Hwy 58 and Hwy 46. We will drive the track in a clockwise direction, as we did in 2007, on the 3.0-mile layout (including bus stop and Star Mazda turns) with three passing zones. It has some complex combinations, is not too intimidating, is very safe, and is long enough to keep you busy. This is an excellent school track!

This is a driving skills improvement school, held under close supervision by trained instructors. Our intention is to teach students how to drive their everyday car better. For that reason, we encourage you to bring the car you drive most frequently with the standard equipment, so you can feel how it will reach in different situations. See the "Pre-Reg Requirements" for a list of vehicles not allowed.

We use a racetrack to provide a safe, controlled environment. This is not a racing school. Emphasis will be on safe, smooth, controlled driving. At no time wil you be pressed to go any faster than you are comfortable. Participants will be grouped according to experience and, to some degree, model of automobile. If the instructor feels you are in the wrong group, you will be moved. "First timers" are usually classified as novices. The student-to-instructor ratio will be 2:1.

You can register by following this link: http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c...BDA3816576581B

HP Autosport · 05-19-2010, 01:59 AM

Will it be a #13 CW config?

satakal · 05-19-2010, 10:03 AM

the SD chapter really likes running with StarMazda. Better for the "driving school" I think.

I'll be there with the dirty thirty.

The HACK · 05-19-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satakal

the SD chapter really likes running with StarMazda. Better for the "driving school" I think.

I'll be there with the dirty thirty.

I remember long ago when I first started doing this Sandy Eggo used to run practically a different configuration at nearly EVERY event. I've ran the course clockwise, counterclockwise, with and without the bus-stop, and star-mazda or sweeper. I think it's only recently that the Pacific Region sort of made a conscious effort to run the "safe" config because too many other organizations were having issues with running it counter-clockwise (the last turn onto the front straight is especially dangerous if done wrong).

It's been years since I ran CCW and it is significantly more challenging than CW. Put my name in the hat and hope to be there.

satakal · 05-19-2010, 12:12 PM

you owe me a ride. Good one too. One of those rides where I hear you say over the chatterbox: "oops. I shouldn't have done that with you in the car."

94is · 05-19-2010, 12:44 PM

I am on schedule to be an IP back marker that weekend.

The HACK · 05-19-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satakal

you owe me a ride. Good one too. One of those rides where I hear you say over the chatterbox: "oops. I shouldn't have done that with you in the car."

Nah. It'll be "see that? Don't do that."

satakal · 06-14-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The HACK

Nah. It'll be "see that? Don't do that."

so what... we're 0 for 6-ish now?

BRO · 06-14-2010, 11:32 AM

Nice to see you guys there. A good time was had by almost all. There was a fender bender that spoiled the BMWCCA record for no car to car contact over 169 events since 1993! The safety orientation and professionalism of the people running these events will keep me coming back.

I have a suggestion about the school format that I will make to the powers that be at an appropriate time that I thought to run by you all first. I don't know about everyone else, but I have a hard time concentrating on the track when getting instruction in my ear. But of course, instruction is what I need and came for. But at least for me, I need time alone in the car so I can concentrate on the instructions in my head and put it all together. Yesterday and I asked for and got permisssion to drive the last session and my own and it was a revelation. I was much more consistent, hit all my marks and seemed to be much faster without any drama.

So my suggestion is this: Alternate. A session of instruction followed by session solo to practice and integrate. The ratio of solo to instructor time should depend on experience and ability of the student. Novices probably need all instructor sessions, C and B drivers, 1-3 instructor sessions and A drivers, maybe just 1 session or half a session just to make sure you are at the level you say you are.

I am NOT recommending skipping any classroom sessions. However, another suggestion, I would like to see some classroom sessions devoted to "forensics". What goes wrong at this corner, how to avoid it, and how to recover. Where is a safe drive off. Where are potholes next to the track. Walls. What to do in a spin. What to do when another driver does an unsafe move. Etc.

Wow this really went long. maybe should be a new thread. Your thoughts appreciated.

Brian

satakal · 06-14-2010, 12:12 PM

dude, your pace and consistency at the end of Sunday was awesome. Different driver than you were Saturday. Well done.

Having a veteran driver in the passenger keeps not only you and your car safe, but me and my car safe. I'm pretty sure that everyone when asked would prefer erroring on the side of slow and safe than the alternative.

Some guys don't deserve "enough rope to hang themselves with." Also, someone who was good at the last event, or day before, may not be warmed up enough to be "trusted". Its a tough one.

Its possible that the dudes wearing yellow shirts have forgotten what its like to be at your particular level. I think a well written letter about your experience would be well received with a few people I can think of. Particularly, the CDI of the event, the SD club vp, and a few others.

Every year, there is a national CCA get together where they discuss ciriculum for driving schools. Dig deeper in your chapter and maybe get involved. If you had an "ah-ha" moment, help the rest of us find that too.

The HACK · 06-14-2010, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satakal

so what... we're 0 for 6-ish now?

Part of me have this fear that I'm going to hear Satakal on these forums saying "damn I got a ride from that HACK dude and he's slow as hell!"

All joking aside, you caught me again at a bad time. End of the weekend, I just wanted to go home and was just physically and mentally beat at that point. The heat doesn't help either. Had you insisted I would have obliged though. I know y'all think we're some sort of super-human GOD like instructors, but we're human...Had we gone out again I would have been in almost 6 straight sessions in a row.

BRO, COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR INSTRUCTOR. Tell him that all the yakkin in the ear is making it hard to concentrate. Tell him/her they need to dial it back for a lap or two to allow you to concentrate. I give all my students that option to do so at the beginning of the day, that at any time if they feel I'm talking too much in their ear and they can't process all that, feel free to tell me to shut the hell up and I will (unless you are doing something really egregious and stupid enough to kill me). Or suggest that they observe for a while. We'd all be happy to oblige since talking so much makes us thirsty.

Ramos · 06-14-2010, 04:11 PM

Contratulations to kim, very cool to see you finish... Hope to see you close the gap soon

satakal · 06-14-2010, 05:52 PM

Mr. TheHack: Provided we don't do a magnificent off, you'll probably show me "more of the same". But, you never know when a light bulb is gonna go off. It's definitely not gonna happen when talking about tire pressures or point bys.
In fact, I think the best thing I learned this weekend came to me when I was riding passenger. I'm just trying to put myself in a position to learn something.

Ramos: You killed it this weekend. I'm stoked that the pieces of the puzzle are coming into clearer focus for you. (I think your progress is directly proportional to your consumption of Miller Lite.) Lets both try and stay on the steep part of the learning curve. Personally, I'm stoked about the autox in 2 weekends. I got some new skills in my toolbox to throw at some cones.

Ramos · 06-14-2010, 06:11 PM

As you say it really is a puzzle and one good thing can lead to many others...

Ramos · 06-14-2010, 06:16 PM

Satakal, I agree... that miller lite was terrible

satakal · 06-14-2010, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

Satakal, I agree... that miller lite was terrible, but somehow made me faster :-)
Also, how did I look when I got in front of you in the last session.. That was my first solo run... did you notice anything I was doing right or wrong?

Hey. Miller Lite is good. Sorry my beer wasn't "designed in england".

you finally accepted my point on the front sretch. A few laps later, as I was at the start finish, you were getting into the braking zone for three. How do you think you looked?

330MX · 06-14-2010, 10:31 PM

Anyone get some pics or video from the weekend? Was it a nice cool 75 degrees?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The HACK

BRO, COMMUNICATE WITH YOUR INSTRUCTOR. Tell him that all the yakkin in the ear is making it hard to concentrate. Tell him/her they need to dial it back for a lap or two to allow you to concentrate. I give all my students that option to do so at the beginning of the day, that at any time if they feel I'm talking too much in their ear and they can't process all that, feel free to tell me to shut the hell up and I will (unless you are doing something really egregious and stupid enough to kill me). Or suggest that they observe for a while. We'd all be happy to oblige since talking so much makes us thirsty.

Agreed. When I did the Central CCA event at BW back in early April I asked my instructor to let me drive for a few laps during each session w/o comments. He kept quite and didn't seem offended. During our debrief as we drove back to the pits he mentioned that many students never make any requests and he wished they would.

Ramos · 06-15-2010, 11:44 AM

Or if you drive well and make no mistakes, the instructor will shut up on his own :-)

Hit_Apex · 06-15-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramos

Or if you drive well and make no mistakes, the instructor will shut up on his own :-)

True, it usually goes like this. "I've read all of the notes on you, I'm going to sit back and observe for a few laps. You ok with that?"

The HACK · 06-16-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330MX

Agreed. When I did the Central CCA event at BW back in early April I asked my instructor to let me drive for a few laps during each session w/o comments. He kept quite and didn't seem offended. During our debrief as we drove back to the pits he mentioned that many students never make any requests and he wished they would.

Your instructor wouldn't happen to be a fat Asian dood with a black helmet would it?

330MX · 06-16-2010, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The HACK

Your instructor wouldn't happen to be a fat Asian dood with a black helmet would it?

No, Frank R.

The HACK · 06-17-2010, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330MX

No, Frank R.

LOL. Next time you see him ask him how his valve stems are holding up. He'll get a kick out of it.

05-12-2010, 11:59 AM	#1
94is Kim 3 Rep 85 Posts Drives: E36(x2), E39, F80 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0) Garage List 2017 BMW M3 [0.00] 1994 325is IP Race Car [0.00] 1999 M3 [0.00] 1999 528iT [0.00]	San Diego BMWCCA HPDE at Buttonwillow - 6/12-6/13 Last day to register online: Thu Jun 10, 2010 When and where? Saturday, June 12 and Sunday, June 13, at Buttonwillow Raceway Park. (www.buttonwillowraceway.com). The track is on the West side of Interstate 5 at the Lerdo Hwy exit between Hwy 58 and Hwy 46. We will drive the track in a clockwise direction, as we did in 2007, on the 3.0-mile layout (including bus stop and Star Mazda turns) with three passing zones. It has some complex combinations, is not too intimidating, is very safe, and is long enough to keep you busy. This is an excellent school track! This is a driving skills improvement school, held under close supervision by trained instructors. Our intention is to teach students how to drive their everyday car better. For that reason, we encourage you to bring the car you drive most frequently with the standard equipment, so you can feel how it will reach in different situations. See the "Pre-Reg Requirements" for a list of vehicles not allowed. We use a racetrack to provide a safe, controlled environment. This is not a racing school. Emphasis will be on safe, smooth, controlled driving. At no time wil you be pressed to go any faster than you are comfortable. Participants will be grouped according to experience and, to some degree, model of automobile. If the instructor feels you are in the wrong group, you will be moved. "First timers" are usually classified as novices. The student-to-instructor ratio will be 2:1. You can register by following this link: http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c...BDA3816576581B
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05-19-2010, 01:59 AM	#2
HP Autosport Supreme Allied Commander 3847 Rep 54,376 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Santa Barbara, AP, Brembo, GIAC, Koni, Ohlins, Performance Friction, www.hpautosport.com iTrader: (36)	Will it be a #13 CW config?
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05-19-2010, 10:03 AM	#3
satakal Major 95 Rep 1,476 Posts Drives: e46 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: socal iTrader: (2)	the SD chapter really likes running with StarMazda. Better for the "driving school" I think. I'll be there with the dirty thirty.
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05-19-2010, 12:12 PM	#5
satakal Major 95 Rep 1,476 Posts Drives: e46 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: socal iTrader: (2)	you owe me a ride. Good one too. One of those rides where I hear you say over the chatterbox: "oops. I shouldn't have done that with you in the car."
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05-19-2010, 12:44 PM	#6
94is Kim 3 Rep 85 Posts Drives: E36(x2), E39, F80 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0) Garage List 2017 BMW M3 [0.00] 1994 325is IP Race Car [0.00] 1999 M3 [0.00] 1999 528iT [0.00]	I am on schedule to be an IP back marker that weekend.
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06-14-2010, 11:32 AM	#9
BRO Oldie Newbie 4 Rep 134 Posts Drives: E92 2007 Auto Sport Red Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Irvine CA USA iTrader: (0)	Buttonwillow report Nice to see you guys there. A good time was had by almost all. There was a fender bender that spoiled the BMWCCA record for no car to car contact over 169 events since 1993! The safety orientation and professionalism of the people running these events will keep me coming back. I have a suggestion about the school format that I will make to the powers that be at an appropriate time that I thought to run by you all first. I don't know about everyone else, but I have a hard time concentrating on the track when getting instruction in my ear. But of course, instruction is what I need and came for. But at least for me, I need time alone in the car so I can concentrate on the instructions in my head and put it all together. Yesterday and I asked for and got permisssion to drive the last session and my own and it was a revelation. I was much more consistent, hit all my marks and seemed to be much faster without any drama. So my suggestion is this: Alternate. A session of instruction followed by session solo to practice and integrate. The ratio of solo to instructor time should depend on experience and ability of the student. Novices probably need all instructor sessions, C and B drivers, 1-3 instructor sessions and A drivers, maybe just 1 session or half a session just to make sure you are at the level you say you are. I am NOT recommending skipping any classroom sessions. However, another suggestion, I would like to see some classroom sessions devoted to "forensics". What goes wrong at this corner, how to avoid it, and how to recover. Where is a safe drive off. Where are potholes next to the track. Walls. What to do in a spin. What to do when another driver does an unsafe move. Etc. Wow this really went long. maybe should be a new thread. Your thoughts appreciated. Brian
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06-14-2010, 12:12 PM	#10
satakal Major 95 Rep 1,476 Posts Drives: e46 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: socal iTrader: (2)	dude, your pace and consistency at the end of Sunday was awesome. Different driver than you were Saturday. Well done. Having a veteran driver in the passenger keeps not only you and your car safe, but me and my car safe. I'm pretty sure that everyone when asked would prefer erroring on the side of slow and safe than the alternative. Some guys don't deserve "enough rope to hang themselves with." Also, someone who was good at the last event, or day before, may not be warmed up enough to be "trusted". Its a tough one. Its possible that the dudes wearing yellow shirts have forgotten what its like to be at your particular level. I think a well written letter about your experience would be well received with a few people I can think of. Particularly, the CDI of the event, the SD club vp, and a few others. Every year, there is a national CCA get together where they discuss ciriculum for driving schools. Dig deeper in your chapter and maybe get involved. If you had an "ah-ha" moment, help the rest of us find that too.
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06-14-2010, 04:11 PM	#12
Ramos Colonel 863 Rep 2,897 Posts Drives: G20 2020 M340 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal iTrader: (6)	Contratulations to kim, very cool to see you finish... Hope to see you close the gap soon Last edited by Ramos; 06-22-2010 at 07:05 PM..
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06-14-2010, 05:52 PM	#13
satakal Major 95 Rep 1,476 Posts Drives: e46 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: socal iTrader: (2)	Mr. TheHack: Provided we don't do a magnificent off, you'll probably show me "more of the same". But, you never know when a light bulb is gonna go off. It's definitely not gonna happen when talking about tire pressures or point bys. In fact, I think the best thing I learned this weekend came to me when I was riding passenger. I'm just trying to put myself in a position to learn something. Ramos: You killed it this weekend. I'm stoked that the pieces of the puzzle are coming into clearer focus for you. (I think your progress is directly proportional to your consumption of Miller Lite.) Lets both try and stay on the steep part of the learning curve. Personally, I'm stoked about the autox in 2 weekends. I got some new skills in my toolbox to throw at some cones.
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06-14-2010, 06:11 PM	#14
Ramos Colonel 863 Rep 2,897 Posts Drives: G20 2020 M340 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal iTrader: (6)	As you say it really is a puzzle and one good thing can lead to many others... Last edited by Ramos; 06-22-2010 at 07:05 PM..
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06-14-2010, 06:16 PM	#15
Ramos Colonel 863 Rep 2,897 Posts Drives: G20 2020 M340 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal iTrader: (6)	Satakal, I agree... that miller lite was terrible Last edited by Ramos; 06-22-2010 at 07:05 PM..
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06-15-2010, 11:44 AM	#18
Ramos Colonel 863 Rep 2,897 Posts Drives: G20 2020 M340 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: So-Cal iTrader: (6)	Or if you drive well and make no mistakes, the instructor will shut up on his own :-)
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