[rebelfocus]

There is a lot I love about my E90. It looks cool, the 320d engine is a little monster and the handling and balance is superb on those recently surfaced or new roads

However, I live in a part of the world where we have a mix of crumbling old country roads and a small amount of newish dual carriageways and motorways. The majority of the road network consists of very patchy, potholed roads with appalling surfaces and camber. Many of the country roads are just very thin layers of asphalt put down on what were once ancient trails. The surface is constantly breaking up collapsing (especially in the winter months with rain and frost) - they patch them up with loose chippings and tar in the summer.

I am sorry to say the E90 is a disaster on very poor surfaces (I have non-sport with 17" RFT). It honesty feels quite UNSAFE and jittery on poor surfaces. As the driver, I have to keep two hands firmly on the wheel and feel positively exhausted after some drives across the country. I find myself having to slow down regularly to avoid imperfections on road where other 'lesser' car seem to continue on without too much fuss. On these kind of roads, the E90 feels like a very small car indeed as it is tossed around violently. My passengers are very uncomfortable to the point of getting quite distressed and I feel I have to apologize continuously for the bone-jarring ride. On good roads, it's a different story. The ride is just great and no-body has anything much to complain about.

I regret that I choose 17" wheels and notice that most E90s here stick with the ugly 16" ones and probably for a good reason. Before any of you suggest it, I am not interested in changing to non-RFTs as the car is supposedly designed for run-flats and I don't want to drive normal tyres without a spare.

Don't get me wrong, I think the E90 would be a fabulous car if you happen live in a country with mostly good roads. Ireland still has lots of exceptionally bad roads which although they exist elsewhere would be rare enough.

So, I am not going to get used to it (I've tried that for almost a year). The only solution for me is to sell the E90 early next year. I will be sad about that as the car has so much going for it but I am not willing to put up with a car so unsuited to our road conditions. I don't want to leave the BMW fold so am considering the March facelifted E60 with dynamic drive. I would also appreciate the less-cramped interior, comfort seats and other goodies.

Are any of you thinking of the same (or have you done so already).
I am sure there are quite a few other parts of the world where the roads are fairly crap.

[canucklion]

1. changing RFT to non-RFT is not going to kill you, really, just get non-RFT with a mobility kit, from owners that have changed from RFT to non-RFT, they've indicated a ride improvement, but again, it's up to you.

2. the interior space of the 5 series is not that much bigger than the 3, it's a bit wider, but unless you're a chunky guy with a wide load, I don't see how you'll appreciate the difference in the interior dimension.

3. although the 5 series' ride may be softer than the 3 series, I doubt it's going to be that much softer, if you live in a rural area with rough roads, perhaps a SUV/SAV with a less punishing ride will be better suited for you.

Overall, I think the cheapest way for you to improve your ride is swap out your tires, but if that's not what you desire, a switch to an E60 is not going to help as much as SUV/SAV alternatives.

Here's a comparison of the interior space (taken from edmunds.com):

Interior 3 Series 5 Series
Front Headroom 38.5 in. 37.7 in.
Rear Headroom 37.5 in. 37 in.
Front Shoulder Room 55.4 in. 57.3 in.
Rear Shoulder Room 55.1 in. 57.2 in.
Front Leg Room 41.5 in. 41.5 in.
Rear Leg Room 34.6 in. 36 in.
Maximum Luggage Capacity 12 cu.ft. 14 cu.ft.

[rebelfocus]

Originally Posted by canucklion

the interior space of the 5 series is not that much bigger than the 3, it's a bit wider, but unless you're a chunky guy with a wide load, I don't see how you'll appreciate the difference in the interior dimension.

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I get your point about swapping out the RFTs. I will think about that.
One shouldn't have to resort to that though and a car that is supposedly designed for run-flat tyres and won't even accommodate a spare wheel.

I don't know what's up with the interior dimensions of the 3 vs 5. I remember doing the same comparison some time ago. For some strange reason though the E60 feels more roomy especially headroom. Perhaps some visual cues give an illusion of more space (the dashboard slopes back away from you more for example, the E90 dash feels slightly more vertical and intrusive; the windshield goes up higher so you don't feel the roof coming down on your eyes like in the E90; the windshield is also further away from the driver so you don't feel like you are up close to the glass).

[bronco]

Buy A Citroen...if you want premier ride on uneven surface.
There was actually a comparisson, between a 5-series and a Citroen (in the same class), and the difference was HUGE

[canucklion]

I think you're right, the 5 series 'feels' bigger, maybe due to the various optical illusions built in
I was driving a 2002 530i rental, and it felt way roomier, yet when I compared the interior dimension data of that car vs my E90, they were pertty much the same. Then I noticed the little details here and there, for example, they put the side vents on the front doors instead of on the dash, making the dash appear to go on forever

Originally Posted by tonyobrien

Thanks for the detailed reply.
I get your point about swapping out the RFTs. I will think about that.
One shouldn't have to resort to that though and a car that is supposedly designed for run-flat tyres and won't even accommodate a spare wheel.

I don't know what's up with the interior dimensions of the 3 vs 5. I remember doing the same comparison some time ago. For some strange reason though the E60 feels more roomy especially headroom. Perhaps some visual cues give an illusion of more space (the dashboard slopes back away from you more for example, the E90 dash feels slightly more vertical and intrusive; the windshield goes up higher so you don't feel the roof coming down on your eyes like in the E90; the windshield is also further away from the driver so you don't feel like you are up close to the glass).

[Mick]

I hate to say it, but if you wanted a smooth ride on uneven roads, why did you buy a 3-series??

This is a SPORT sedan, it's supposed to ride stiff, that's why it handles like a dream in the twisties. If you want a smooth ride, don't buy a sports car because it "looks cool". I too live where the weather sucks and the roads are awful. But I knew that going it, and accept the harsh ride for the handling I get. It's a trade off, but one you have to decide on before you buy the car. I have the 330i with sport package and 18" RFTs. It rides rough, and I don't mind! If I wanted smooth, I'd buy a Buick.

[carl_d]

A recent test in the UK magazine Auto Express proved that using non-RFT, on an E90, reduces the braking distances and significantly reduces your safey margins. Its best to stick with the RFT on an E90 in a wet climate.

You could consider an Alpina D3 -- its much much better on poor roads.

[canucklion]

I'll call that BS, that has nothing to do with RFT vs non-RFT, but the type of compound in the tire, did they compare all-season RFT vs all-season non-RFT or performance RFT vs performance non-RFT?

Originally Posted by carl_d

A recent test in the UK magazine Auto Express proved that using non-RFT, on an E90, reduces the braking distances and significantly reduces your safey margins. Its best to stick with the RFT on an E90 in a wet climate.

You could consider an Alpina D3 -- its much much better on poor roads.

[carl_d]

YES ... like-for-like. Its not BS! Its a controled test.

Originally Posted by canucklion

I'll call that BS, that has nothing to do with RFT vs non-RFT, but the type of compound in the tire, did they compare all-season RFT vs all-season non-RFT or performance RFT vs performance non-RFT?

[canucklion]

that's the best link I can find

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au...tyre_test.html

but it doesn't give the details of the test, can you provide me with a better link?

[rebelfocus]

Originally Posted by Mick

I hate to say it, but if you wanted a smooth ride on uneven roads, why did you buy a 3-series??

This is a SPORT sedan, it's supposed to ride stiff, that's why it handles like a dream in the twisties. If you want a smooth ride, don't buy a sports car because it "looks cool". I too live where the weather sucks and the roads are awful. But I knew that going it, and accept the harsh ride for the handling I get. It's a trade off, but one you have to decide on before you buy the car. I have the 330i with sport package and 18" RFTs. It rides rough, and I don't mind! If I wanted smooth, I'd buy a Buick.

I have never considered the 3 series to be a 'sports car'. It certainly handles incredibly well and feels very sharp and balanced for a sedan/saloon but I wouldn't quite put it in the 'sports car' category. I have driven several E46 3 series in the past and they were more comfortable (I also test drove the E90 before I bought it and didn't notice anything terribly bad then). I think the addition of RFTs combined with the general suspension-stiffening trend in this segment means the 3 has become a bit too uncomfortable on poor surfaces. Unfortunately, the level of discomfort is something you only really discover when you have lived with the car for a while.

I am not looking for a pillow soft rolly-polly suspension either (we can't buy Buicks here btw). I just want a good balance between ride quality and sporty handling and feel that that the balance just isn't right on the E90 unless you are driving on very good roads.

As the driver, the 'compromise' is a bit more acceptable as you tend to brace and anticipate the thumps but that can get a bit tiresome on longer runs. The passengers are the ones who really don't like travelling in the E90 and I care about them too :-)

[nmulax]

I have to second canucklion's comments.
If you're looking for a more forgiving ride but don't want to leave BMW, look at the X3 or X5. Sure the 5er will be a bit smoother, but if the roads in Ireland are that bad... I'm thinking you'll still be unhappy with the ride quality.

As for the interior of the 5 series; it does feel larger. I for one am not a fan of that. I had a 525i loaner for a week, and getting back in my E90 felt great. I love how the car envelops you. With the 3 series you sit "in" the car, as opposed to "on" the car.

[rebelfocus]

Originally Posted by nmulax

If you're looking for a more forgiving ride but don't want to leave BMW, look at the X3 or X5. Sure the 5er will be a bit smoother, but if the roads in Ireland are that bad... I'm thinking you'll still be unhappy with the ride quality.

SUVs aren't very popular over here. People generally prefer cars to trucks and the parking spaces and roads are not as 'accommodating' as in North America.

BTW, the X3 gets slaughtered by the press in the UK and Ireland for having apalling ride quality issues (worse than E90) - they usually describe it as fidgety and thrashy. I haven't driven one though.

The X5 is more popular but the new model (E70) won't be available until next April at the earliest and that thing is huge. I will take a look at it anyway.

[carl_d]

Like I said its not BS. Scanned this additional info below form magazine.

Originally Posted by canucklion

that's the best link I can find

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/au...tyre_test.html

but it doesn't give the details of the test, can you provide me with a better link?

[carl_d]

Started new thread as its off topic here...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37974

[canucklion]

thanks for the link Carl, will continue discussion in the other thread

[canucklion]

Tony: this may seem like a trite advice, but whichever model you pick, make sure to test it on the type of roads that you travel most often on, to get a feel of its ride, good luck deciding

[rebelfocus]

Originally Posted by canucklion

Tony: this may seem like a trite advice, but whichever model you pick, make sure to test it on the type of roads that you travel most often on, to get a feel of its ride, good luck deciding

Your dead right. Next time I will insist on an extended test drive.
I test drove a few E90s and didn't notice anything horrible but they were all with 16" wheels and the test drives were not long enough. It took me quite a while with my E90 to realise how bad it could sometimes be as a lot of the time it's ok.

Some of the non-premium brands here now offer 24 hour test drives which sounds like what you need to get the feel for a car. BMW aren't as user friendly and usually offer a 10 min run around the dealership on a preplanned 'nice' route with a salesman distracting you from the actual car.

[sobriquet]

+1 on the SUV/SAV suggestion. As much as I love the 3er, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably have a Land Rover LR3 in my garage.

[simnew]

Hi Tony,

I have noticed the same as you. As a 3 time BMW owner I can tell you that the SE E90 on RFT's is only marginally better riding than an E46 with the MSport package in Europe. The RFT ride deteriorates quickly as the tyre ages and I will be seriously considering changing to non RFT's. There really is just no give in the sidewalls that helps iron out the horrible ridges you can get in the road. Dips and undulations are fine , but over time the noise goes up and to be honest it does detract from the car.

The whole point about the 3 series was that it had the best ride handling compromise. Audi's use to take out the suspension for sports handling so it rode like a cart but on their SE models it was too floaty for example. The E46 was decisively better than the Audi as a consequence. Now with RFT's we have a different trade off - an improvement in safety - (when you have a blow out) versus a permanently compromised ride.

The RFT's do improve the handling as they make the steering sharper in general but the E90 handles so well anyway in either SE or MSport config that its really not an issue.

As for being designed for RFT's - remember that German roads are fabulous by comparison to UK roads and the rippling we have in the UK and Ireland will not be seen in GErmany.

And the 3 Series is not a sports car - its a practical sporting executive car - the only one which classifies as a 'Sports Car ' is really the M3 and guess what - it won't have RFT's !!! I rest my case.

[rebelfocus]

Originally Posted by simnew

Hi Tony,

I have noticed the same as you. As a 3 time BMW owner I can tell you that the SE E90 on RFT's is only marginally better riding than an E46 with the MSport package in Europe. The RFT ride deteriorates quickly as the tyre ages and I will be seriously considering changing to non RFT's. There really is just no give in the sidewalls that helps iron out the horrible ridges you can get in the road. Dips and undulations are fine , but over time the noise goes up and to be honest it does detract from the car.

The whole point about the 3 series was that it had the best ride handling compromise. Audi's use to take out the suspension for sports handling so it rode like a cart but on their SE models it was too floaty for example. The E46 was decisively better than the Audi as a consequence. Now with RFT's we have a different trade off - an improvement in safety - (when you have a blow out) versus a permanently compromised ride.

The RFT's do improve the handling as they make the steering sharper in general but the E90 handles so well anyway in either SE or MSport config that its really not an issue.

As for being designed for RFT's - remember that German roads are fabulous by comparison to UK roads and the rippling we have in the UK and Ireland will not be seen in GErmany.

And the 3 Series is not a sports car - its a practical sporting executive car - the only one which classifies as a 'Sports Car ' is really the M3 and guess what - it won't have RFT's !!! I rest my case.

Thanks simnew.
For a while, I thought I was quite alone in feeling the balanced compromise between ride/handling the 3 is famous for has somehow been lost in the E90 (at least on our unfabulous unGerman roads).

[Josh49]

You should look at the Lexus IS. From test-drives I think that car has what more what you're looking for..

(I can explain more in detail if you want, but I think you'll know what I mean)