[Belma07]

Quick question - I searched. I've seen discussions on the shifter feel, but not the clutch feel and control. As some of you may know, I have a G35 which I'm interested in trading for a 335i. But, I haven't test driven one because I'm afraid I'll love it too much and I'm not ready to pull the trigger for a bit.

Anyway, what I don't like about the G is the on/off feel of the clutch. The S2000, on the other hand is quite progressive. The weight isn't the problem, just a poorly designed clutch in my opinion. You can feel exactly what the clutch is doing and modulate accordingly on the Honda. Not so on the G. It also doesn't help that it chatters on take off and the dealer "can't replicate." Is the BMW clutch an on/off switch or progressive?

I find it nearly impossible to engage/disengage the clutch on the G smoothly and I've been driving stick exclusively for well over 10 years.

Thanks for the feedback...

[visor]

Haven't driven the manual on the G35, but on the 3-series, there's a CDV (clutch delay valve) that slightly slows down the engagement of the clutch. This was put in by BMW most likely to smoothen out the transmission shock that you're feeling on the G35's manual.

The 3's clutch is quite good. Easily modulated and progressive.
And the drive by wire helps if you're creeping along in 1st or 2nd gear in heavy traffic.

Just go for a test drive and you'll see for yourself!
(But make sure you leave your checkbook and credit cards at home if you're not ready to buy yet!!)

[Ray]

I previously owned an 04 GCoupe and agree that the clutch required more modulation then the usual. I also had to rev more then usual to avoid the chatter you are describing.

The BMW clutch is very easy to use. In my opinion, more so then the S2000. The engaging point is obvious which makes the grabbing point during excelleration seemless. The shifter even feels better then the G, but not even close to the S2.

[txusa03]

all these new terms make me feel like a rookies...what is drive by wire, what is progressive, modulate? what do they mean in a manual trans?

On a side note, the 06 330i manual feels much better than 05 325i manual. Throw is a little shorter on 06 e90 vs 05 e46. That much I do know from having driven both cars.

[NFS13]

Originally Posted by ThreeThirtyEye

I previously owned an 04 GCoupe and agree that the clutch required more modulation then the usual. I also had to rev more then usual to avoid the chatter you are describing.

The BMW clutch is very easy to use. In my opinion, more so then the S2000. The engaging point is obvious which makes the grabbing point during excelleration seemless. The shifter even feels better then the G, but not even close to the S2.

I owned an 03 coupe and had to follow the same pattern as you describe. Also, the 335i has a slight notchy feel to it, but no where near the notchy rubbery feel of the G35.

[kuthair]

Originally Posted by txusa03

all these new terms make me feel like a rookies...what is drive by wire, what is progressive, modulate? what do they mean in a manual trans?

Drive by wire just means that there is no mechanical linkage between the gas pedal and engine throttle. With drive by wire, the computer measures the amount you press down on the gas pedal and opens the throttle accordingly.

By progressive/modulate I think the OP was just talking about how he works the clutch.

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by kuthair

Drive by wire just means that there is no mechanical linkage between the gas pedal and engine throttle. With drive by wire, the computer measures the amount you press down on the gas pedal and opens the throttle accordingly.

By progressive/modulate I think the OP was just talking about how he works the clutch.

pardon me for asking another dumb question, if we did not have drive by wire, how would that work between throttle and gas pedal?

[ski360]

Originally Posted by txusa03

pardon me for asking another dumb question, if we did not have drive by wire, how would that work between throttle and gas pedal?

Usually,with.a.cable....sorry.for.the.periods.my.k eyboard.just.broke.

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by ski360

Usually,with.a.cable....sorry.for.the.periods.my.k eyboard.just.broke.

I feel so dumb . I thought that all cars these day should have computerized controlled throttle responses. Thankfully i bought a bmw, but if my car ever flooded, theres goes the drive by haywire...

[kuthair]

Originally Posted by txusa03

I feel so dumb . I thought that all cars these day should have computerized controlled throttle responses. Thankfully i bought a bmw, but if my car ever flooded, theres goes the drive by haywire...

most cars probably do.... definitely the premium brands. My gf's sister recently bought a new Honda Civic. I could be wrong, but I think that's drive-by-wire also.

[alaloom]

Originally Posted by txusa03

pardon me for asking another dumb question, if we did not have drive by wire, how would that work between throttle and gas pedal?

Ironically, with a wire link between the gas pedal and the throttle. The difference is that in that case it would be a mechanical link, it's the movement of the wire that moves the throttle, no electrical current is present. Since most cars today offer cruise control, there is also a motor that would move the same throttle, which in case the old mechanical link is still present you could also feel it on the gas pedal. Since the motor is already there, nowadays manufacturers are getting rid of the mechanical link, they rather have the computer read the pedal and use the motor to open the throttle as they would with cruise control. This gives the computer greater control of the throttle, which results in better mpg. Also in case of flood, the throttle is the least of your worries, no computer = no spark. That has been true even on my 1987 325i.

[txusa03]

how do yall know these thing? reading books? Good to know some of the technical details. Now hopefully, some of you would understand why i like to take my car apart. I don't do engine or elctrical which is a good thing.

[Richwm]

I have driven my friends 04 G35 6MT and I have and 06 E-90 and the clutch is way easier than the G's to use smothly I find it very hard to stall, even starting off in secound is no problem at all.

[BK]

Originally Posted by ski360

Usually,with.a.cable....sorry.for.the.periods.my.k eyboard.just.broke.

LOL - broken keyboard and all, you're hanging in there and posting. Cheers to that!

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by Richwm

I have driven my friends 04 G35 6MT and I have and 06 E-90 and the clutch is way easier than the G's to use smothly I find it very hard to stall, even starting off in secound is no problem at all.

I have started from second too and I had to give it plenty of gas not to stall. I am saying anyone should start from second gear.

[Boondoggler]

Originally Posted by Belma07

Quick question - I searched. I've seen discussions on the shifter feel, but not the clutch feel and control. As some of you may know, I have a G35 which I'm interested in trading for a 335i. But, I haven't test driven one because I'm afraid I'll love it too much and I'm not ready to pull the trigger for a bit.

Anyway, what I don't like about the G is the on/off feel of the clutch. The S2000, on the other hand is quite progressive. The weight isn't the problem, just a poorly designed clutch in my opinion. You can feel exactly what the clutch is doing and modulate accordingly on the Honda. Not so on the G. It also doesn't help that it chatters on take off and the dealer "can't replicate." Is the BMW clutch an on/off switch or progressive?

I find it nearly impossible to engage/disengage the clutch on the G smoothly and I've been driving stick exclusively for well over 10 years.

Thanks for the feedback...

I had an '04 G35 6MT, and now have a '06 330i 6MT. There is not a huge difference in the way the clutch works, though the transmission in the BMW is not nearly as notchy on the 330i, but the throws are much longer in the BMW than in the G35. I also disliked the way the 330i CDV interfered with the ability to make smooth shifts so I addressed both issues by installing a Rogue Engineering short shifter kit and had the CDV modified so that it became non functional. I personally didn't hate the G35 clutch/tranny, but the way I have the BMW setup now is significantly better than the G35.

[Hegemony]

Originally Posted by Belma07

It also doesn't help that it chatters on take off and the dealer "can't replicate." Is the BMW clutch an on/off switch or progressive?

I find it nearly impossible to engage/disengage the clutch on the G smoothly and I've been driving stick exclusively for well over 10 years.

Thanks for the feedback...

Previous G owner here.

What year is your G? If it is an 04 or earlier, have you had your tranny replaced by the dealer at any point? My dealer replaced my tranny because of a problem with the regulators going into 3rd and 5th. It was supposedly a known problem as this particular dealer had a wall of 6MT transmissions out behind the shop from 03's and early 04s.

Anyway, I know the head mechanic outside of my client-dealer relationship. He advised me that all of the new transmissions came with a replacement clutch and that they were required to install it with the new transmission. Apparently the original problem stemmed from partial engagement of the clutch plate. The new one is riveted or textured in some way that does not allow partial engagement (i.e. it would slip if you let the clutch out slow on an agressive takeoff and you would hear a grinding or chattering noise as the rivets slipped.)

I had this noise after my transmission was replaced, was given this explanation, and advised not to worry about it. I've been driving stick almost exclusively for 14 years and have never burned through a clutch, so I know it's not me.

Supposedly, the newer models have this same characteristic, though I have no independent confirmation.

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by Hegemony

(i.e. it would slip if you let the clutch out slow on an agressive takeoff and you would hear a grinding or chattering noise as the rivets slipped.)

This happens to my very own e90. I only driven manual for 1.5 yrs so I am very familiar with this noise when I first switch over to manual being that I was not used to it. I am good now at manual but still have plenty to learn. For example, when you drive a manual and you make a turn, always have it in gear cuz you never know when you fishtail and you need to give it some gas to correct fishtail (if DTC or DSC was too late to fix it for you). I did not learn it the hard way but came close to learning the hard way. Lol, don't ask me why I made a turn in neutral (rookies mistakes )

[ski360]

Originally Posted by BK

LOL - broken keyboard and all, you're hanging in there and posting. Cheers to that!

That's...what.happens.when.your.wife.dumps.coffee. on.the.keyboard,....The.spacebar.is.fried....To.th e.OP....sorry.I'm...

[obLu]

I've driven an s2k ... that clutch is absolutely beautiful compared to the e90 ... but Honda's in general are probably the most user friendly clutch I've ever driven. Sometimes I find they don't bite hard enough though.

No, the e90 clutch is not even remotely as user friendly as the s2k, and probably closer to the G. But it's by no means hard either.

[Belma07]

[QUOTE=Hegemony]Previous G owner here.

What year is your G?

Mine is a 2005 that the dealer says in fine so its all original. I hear it chatter (and so does the passenger) and usually a few times per trip, I FEEL it shake the car when pulling away from a light for example. I can even feel it through the pedal when releasing the clutch at speed going into 3rd or Its just what I expected in a 35,000 sport coupe

I love driving stick. I'm hoping I'll enjoy BMW's 6mt.

[Hegemony]

Sorry for not getting back to this earlier.

My G was an early 04, so much has changed between my model year and yours. When mine did chirp/grind it was usualy on a quick take off heading up hill (ex. turning left at a high traffic intersection between oncoming traffic.) And again, this was only after I had my transmission and clutch replaced under warranty. If you're concerned about the specifics on what you're experiencing in the G, I suggest going to your service center and being stern about having the head mechanic ride with you, duplicating it for him, and have him explain what's going on to you. They should be more than willing to do this, and if they aren't, take it somewhere else. Don't leave it up to them to drive the car when you're not around and figure out what's going on.

In my 04, the explanation I was given was that the new clutch plate was not allowed to partially engage. It was either engaged or it wasn't. On or Off, etc. It could be that the 05's have the same type of clutch plate, but that's pure speculation on my part.

Clutch feel is different between the BMW and the G. I do not have my E92 335 yet. It is still on order, but I test drove one several times before I decided to trade. Clutch feel to me is typical BMW style. I had a 98 M Roaster a couple of years back and it felt similar to the 335 I drove. Engagement point is in a different spot and has a wider range in the BMW, imo.