[Dackz]

Well, since I cant get an answer from Vishnu and Shiv seems to have avoided my question, how does a tun work here at 5000ft? I had heard that the DME is programmed to give us more boost at higher elevation so the car 'feels the same' at whatever elevation. Is this so? Correct me if I am wrong but it is 7psi stock boost? Does that mean we are getting closer to 8-9psi, effectively meaning a tune WILL not give us the gains that a sea level person gets, because boost is boost?

I really like what the V4 looks to be doing, and had been leaning toward a procede from the get go. Am I correct in my thinking on this? Correct me on this too if I am wrong, but as elevation goes up, boost goes up, you hit a max but its bad on the turbo's because there is less air. Is that right?

Sorry for the newbness of those questions, but I havent ever seen a straight answer on it, just that "the DME does the work" and its kinda batted around like they are a Senator.

To add, any one with the V3 and or the JB3 want to chime in on the type of gains you either got on a dyno or even your 'butt' dyno feel? Anyone with a boost gauge want to say what your hitting stock vs. tuned?

[Bimmer This]

My tune compared to stock according to my "butt" dyno is night and day. You can definity feel the gain over stock. I really don't have a boost gauge to physically see the boost difference but I can tell that I'm pushing those turbo's because they seem to be louder spooling up then before. I know that because of the high altitude, we tend to push our turbos because those turbos has to work twice as hard to push 10 psi compared to pushing 10 psi at sea level. Damn our thin air! Dackz, if your still stock, when you come down into the city, we'll compare the how yours feels and then how mine feels.

[Dackz]

Yea, for sure, I need to check someones out first I think before I jump on it. Just need to find time to set something up.

What tune do you have?

I do know that our turbos do have to work a bit harder though, taking the car through the Eisenhower tunnel and up that pass, it works pretty good, def LAG at that elevation. The next day I was in SoCal and just a blip and it was going. I wouldnt say the car felt stronger down there, but the throttle response was much more crisp, that is for sure.

I just am afraid of our turbo's being more overworked up here because of this and with extra boost, maybe degrading the longevity. Thats why I was wondering, if boost was boost regardless of the elevation. That really confuses me.

[raceyBMW]

You are still going to have the same boost targets as you would at sea level, however your turbos will be working harder to get to those boost targets because of the less dense air. So they will essentially be spinning at a higher RPM and running less efficiently than they would at sea level...they will eventually run out of breath like you feel when you hit the mountain passes (or Mt. Evans).

It probably is somewhat harder on the turbos up here, I mean how could it not be? However if that means reduced turbo life remains to be seen really. The JB3 used to have a high altitude map that would decay boost at higher RPM so that the turbos were not overworked.

I am not sure how the V3 or newer JB3 versions handle this, or if they just ignore it now and go for big numbers.

I have been running JB1 since just a couple months after I got my car, and have never really felt I need more. I probably wont upgrade tune until someone comes with an ECU flash with something like the Shark Injector so you don't have to go to a shop to get reflashed each time.

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by raceyBMW

You are still going to have the same boost targets as you would at sea level, however your turbos will be working harder to get to those boost targets because of the less dense air. So they will essentially be spinning at a higher RPM and running less efficiently than they would at sea level...they will eventually run out of breath like you feel when you hit the mountain passes (or Mt. Evans).

It probably is somewhat harder on the turbos up here, I mean how could it not be? However if that means reduced turbo life remains to be seen really. The JB3 used to have a high altitude map that would decay boost at higher RPM so that the turbos were not overworked.

I am not sure how the V3 or newer JB3 versions handle this, or if they just ignore it now and go for big numbers.

I have been running JB1 since just a couple months after I got my car, and have never really felt I need more. I probably wont upgrade tune until someone comes with an ECU flash with something like the Shark Injector so you don't have to go to a shop to get reflashed each time.

Is this confirmed with a boost gauge though? I get what you are saying though. So I am right in thinking that boost is boost, they just have to spin more to get there.

So would my thinking be right by saying DP's and catback really would help us alot more since now they can expel the air that much easier?

I guess I shouldnt really worry that much...if my stock turbos go bad, by that time upgrades will be out and probably not be terribly expensive.

[Bimmer This]

raceyBMW, Andrew (AR Design) does ECU flash tunes with EAS if I remember correctly. And he's also ocal which makes it even better. He tells me that it feels pretty much feels stock until you put the pedal down to the floor. We haven't really had the chance to compare it against any other tune yet but we will someday. He said that he's taken his car into dealers with that flash tune and it was literally undetected by their computers. You might want to give him a call if you ever want to upgrade.

Dackz, to answer your question.....I'm on the V3. Having an intake, DP, and exhaust should really help those turbo's breath better up here where we are. Eventually, all turbo's at one point must come to end. It's just depends how you want to push it. I drive mine like a grandma most of the time so I am hardly in heavy boost. Plus, if they ever go out, that give you reason to upgrade those turbos or wait and go with a single when someones ready to release the manifold for it.

[Dackz]

[QUOTE=Bimmer This;6387947

Dackz, to answer your question.....I'm on the V3. Having an intake, DP, and exhaust should really help those turbo's breath better up here where we are. Eventually, all turbo's at one point must come to end. It's just depends how you want to push it. I drive mine like a grandma most of the time so I am hardly in heavy boost. Plus, if they ever go out, that give you reason to upgrade those turbos or wait and go with a single when someones ready to release the manifold for it.[/QUOTE]

It really would be interesting to know just how much more strain the turbo's get on them at altitude under boost. I might try googling it, although not sure what that would bring up. I know easier to breath and spool SHOULD be easier on the turbo, and from what Shiv is saying about the V4, the turbos have less strain on them when spooling up then stock, that would help us even more.

I realize turbos go, but I dont plan on EVER getting rid of this car, at least, not for quite some long time (had my last car 7+ years), so I was just hoping to get at least 100k+ out of them. Im sure they will last that long, because even tuned I wouldnt push it too hard often, only getting on the highways and up to speed and at Bandimere.

[raceyBMW]

I know about the ECU flash ARDesign offers, but I would like to have control over it on my own. I can wait, probably won't go anything higher than JB1 until I am out of warranty.

I think anything to help the turbos be more free flowing and not have to work as hard would be very beneficial at our elevation. DPs, IC, Intake all help with that, and Meth. should help greatly as well since it cools down the charge air. Not sure about catback, as it doesn't really seem to be the big restriction on the E92 from the data I have read.

At our elevation boost is definitely not the only story as the turbos actually start getting out of their efficiency range up here and just can meet the boost targets. Take the car up to Mt. Evans, it dogs pretty hard at the top.

I also plan on keeping this car for as long as its feasible. I have my Bentley to get started on maintenance outside of warranty. I will hit 30k miles next spring, so will check my plugs, replace my diff fluid and possibly PS fluid...if I can, haven't looked into if its possible without diag. equipment since I have active steering.

BTW, if you ever need an "official" conversion from the quarter mile runs from sea level to Bandimere, check this out.
http://www.nhra.net/content/about.as...601&zoneid=101

The RMCBMWCCA is going to High Plains Raceway next spring, I will definitely be there for that. If you have never taken it on a real track, it is an absolute blast, and you will be humbled by how much your car can take.

[Dackz]

I plan on making the trip out to Vegas for Mfest hopefully.....are you going to that? I dont need much of an excuse to get myself out that way, haha.

Thanks for the info though. Ill be going in my for 30k here really soon, in a couple weeks, I will let you know what they do. I will probably replace spark plugs at that time as well, at least check them.

As for elevation....yea, I took the car up over trail ridge this summer....LLLAAAAGGG, haha, felt like I was driving a 328i, haha, j/k, it was worse I think. But when I came back down...coasted the whole way to Loveland, I had 100miles on the tank and computer said I could go 585 more! haha.

[2planker]

I've been running a Jb2 for the past 8mths and the difference is definitely noticeable compared to stock driving in and around Denver. But like Raceyboost mentioned it runs out of steam up in the mountains, you can really feel the difference between driving around in Denver vs Edwards when your on it. However, during normal driving when your not on it I'd say it feels the same.

[F82_SID]

Well I will definitely be at HPR in the spring as well. Also, I think I would be down for Mfest.

I just put my JB3 back in the car after having it out for allot of service. (Thats a whole nother story, be cautious what you write on here cause Schomp is snooping ) I can definitely feel the difference torque wise. I didnt realize how much I missed it. If you haven't done so already I would also recommend you pick up an intake. I have the BMS DCI and it feels and sounds great!

Have you been on a RMCBMWCCA drive? If not then you should definitely go in the spring. It will give you a good chance to see the tunes compared at elevation.

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by E92_SID

Well I will definitely be at HPR in the spring as well. Also, I think I would be down for Mfest.

I just put my JB3 back in the car after having it out for allot of service. (Thats a whole nother story, be cautious what you write on here cause Schomp is snooping ) I can definitely feel the difference torque wise. I didnt realize how much I missed it. If you haven't done so already I would also recommend you pick up an intake. I have the BMS DCI and it feels and sounds great!

Have you been on a RMCBMWCCA drive? If not then you should definitely go in the spring. It will give you a good chance to see the tunes compared at elevation.

Sid, I definitely want to do Mfest as well... Let's get a group together.

[Dackz]

Yea, Mfest will be a blast. I dont really want to register for anything other then some 1/4 mile runs, and maybe a trip around the track or 2. Other then that, I just want to see all the cool cars and the cool vendor stuff.

Im more the likely going to be going though. As long as we dont get a storm when I have the summers on....lol

[Bimmer This]

Isn't MFest in Las Vegas? You all planning on driving out there?

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by Bimmer This

Isn't MFest in Las Vegas? You all planning on driving out there?

Yes and Yes. Wuouldnt be my first road trip out there either...some nice stretchs of road for us to have some fun on too As long as it doesnt snow, its 10 hours from Denver.....depending on speed.

[Bimmer This]

Man, that sounds so much fun. I would love to go but I don't think I could stand driving out to Vegas anymore. I've done it one too many times. Maybe I will just fly out there.

[Dackz]

Im thinking this....get some guys with laser jammers up at the front of the pack....they can run 100+ then when they hammer the brakes....we all follow suit, haha. That makes the trip as fast as flying by the time you go to the aiport, sit and wait to board, fly, then land, wait for bags, get a taxi, etc...haha, okay, so not as fast but quick!

[Bimmer This]

Yeah, that true. But I still would rather sit on the plane for alittle over an hour then sitting in the car blasting down the Utah and that 15 minutes of Arizona for about 10 hours. Dont get me wrong, if I had not made the trip to Vegas 25+ times by car, I would love to be carving those cayons with you guys.

[Dackz]

Originally Posted by Bimmer This

Yeah, that true. But I still would rather sit on the plane for alittle over an hour then sitting in the car blasting down the Utah and that 15 minutes of Arizona for about 10 hours. Dont get me wrong, if I had not made the trip to Vegas 25+ times by car, I would love to be carving those cayons with you guys.

25+ holy crap! Ive done it 3 times and I thought that was alot.

[forza1976]

Originally Posted by Bimmer This

Yeah, that true. But I still would rather sit on the plane for alittle over an hour then sitting in the car blasting down the Utah and that 15 minutes of Arizona for about 10 hours. Dont get me wrong, if I had not made the trip to Vegas 25+ times by car, I would love to be carving those cayons with you guys.

Well shoot down the idea man...

[Bimmer This]

When is MFest anyways? Maybe I could possibly make it more time. Sounds so tempting to go.

[forza1976]

http://www.mfestforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3284

Looks like April 16-18