nokian hakkapeliitta r vs Blizzak LM-22 (in Michigan)

asus389 · 10-28-2009, 01:26 AM

Hey all,

I have an 06 325i that I need snows for. I live in Ann Arbor, MI so we get a good mix of snow/ice along with slush and dry/cold. I have checked around and it seems many people recommend the Blizzak LM-22 for this car, but a few local independent places say they swear by the nokian hakkapeliitta r. The Nokians are significantly more expensive than then Bridgestones. Anyone have experience to compare the two? Is it worth the extra money for this area of the country? Or will the car drive like a tractor unless I get "performance" winters...

Oh and I'm a little confused re the TPMS on this model year. I am planning on getting some new wheels for the winter tires, do I need to buy TMPS sensors for each wheel?

thanks

asus

E91_E88_E21 · 10-28-2009, 04:58 AM

go with nokian hakka or the WR G2
Hakk for deeper snow WR G2 for watery snow and rainy conditions

fernande-bmw · 10-28-2009, 09:48 AM

Since I am researching this for the coming Milwaukee, WI winter, I will share I have found so far.

The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is strictly a winter tire with R-speed rating (106 mph). It is not a performance winter/snow tire. Hence, they handle extremely well in snow and ice. Probably the best around for bad snow weather conditions. However, they do not handle so well in dry/wet conditions. I have been told that these tires start losing grip with temperatures above 45 degrees.

The Bridgestones Blizzak is a performance winter/snow tire with H-speed (130 mph) rated durability. I know several people who use these tires in WI and IL and are happy with them. The will not handle as well as the Nokian in snow/ice, but they will be better in dry/wet. You could probably look at the LM-25 or even the newer LM-60 for better tire threads.

Another one to look at is the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3. This has been suggested to be a better tire than the Blizzak.

The suggested Nokian WR G2 is an all-season tire with an Asymmetrical tread design to handle the most extreme conditions. It has been suggested to me as the best all-season tire if you want to have them on the car all the time. Notice, however, that they will not handle the snow/ice as well as the Hakkapeliitta R. That's why it would be a better choice for watery snow and rainy conditions.

My personal suggestion for a winter tire, is the Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme. Vredestein and Nokian are well-known competitors in Europe for winter tires, but not as well known in the USA. However, the Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme is a high performance snow/winter tire with H and V speed ratings. The tire provides a quiet ride and handles better than the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R in dry/wet conditions, but similarly in snow/ice. I have been told that they even last longer than the Dunlops, so that's a bonus.

The Vredestein is cheaper than the Nokian, but could be more expensive than the Blizzak and Dunlop, depending on the model.

As for the TPMS sensors/valves, you should install them in all the wheels. You could move the ones you have in your current wheels to the winter set, but I think it is better is you have a new dedicated set because they need to be calibrated for the specific wheel/tire they are on. You can find the OEM kit of four at Tischer BMW.

I hope this helps!

asus389 · 10-28-2009, 03:31 PM

Thanks for the input. So you have driven on the Vredestein tires in Milwaukee?

fernande-bmw · 10-28-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asus389

Thanks for the input. So you have driven on the Vredestein tires in Milwaukee?

I have not, but I am going with the account from two people who live in Michigan who suggested the tires to me.

One of them was so pleased with the feel and handling on his Lexus, that he actually never swapped them out during the summer. A little extreme, but that's how happy he was with them.

MBinIL · 10-30-2009, 09:31 AM

All,

Just thought I chime in since I am using the LM-22 for the 5th season now...
I can't speak for the Nokians or Vredesteins but I am VERY happy with the Blizzaks on my wife's 330i. She got the car 4 years ago to hit a traffic sign 2 weeks later the first day we had snow here in Chicago.
IMHO the car with AS tires is almost undriveable in snow despite traction control.
Thus I decided to get dedicated winter tires the following week.
I got the LM-22s and put 2 40lbs. sandbags in the trunk.
This combo turned the car from the worst vehicle in snow I've ever driven to a driveable and actually even fun car in winter.

I have absolutely no complaints with the Blizzaks and am about to put them on on my Honda Element and my MB 300SDL (which probably beats the 330i in worst winter performance) as well.
On a side note, even though I was late a few times with taking them off in spring. the tires still have quite a bit of thread left - have no numbers but thread life seems to be really good too.

Hope this helps!
MBinIL

asus389 · 11-05-2009, 10:16 PM

So another question - does using the RFT version of the more aggressive winter tires (ie WS-60 or Hakkapalita etc..) make them stiffer and thus handle better than the non RFT versions?

bmwmike · 11-05-2009, 10:54 PM

The tires you want are a more advanced version of the RSi according to their website. Hopefully they fixed the issues I witnessed with the RFT RSi's I had: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...24&postcount=7

I would say, based on their similarity to the R, that they should probably not be used above freezing or warmer and only on snow or ice covered roads.

10-28-2009, 01:26 AM	#1
asus389 Captain 70 Rep 639 Posts Drives: 11 E90 328i Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 328i [0.00]	nokian hakkapeliitta r vs Blizzak LM-22 (in Michigan) Hey all, I have an 06 325i that I need snows for. I live in Ann Arbor, MI so we get a good mix of snow/ice along with slush and dry/cold. I have checked around and it seems many people recommend the Blizzak LM-22 for this car, but a few local independent places say they swear by the nokian hakkapeliitta r. The Nokians are significantly more expensive than then Bridgestones. Anyone have experience to compare the two? Is it worth the extra money for this area of the country? Or will the car drive like a tractor unless I get "performance" winters... Oh and I'm a little confused re the TPMS on this model year. I am planning on getting some new wheels for the winter tires, do I need to buy TMPS sensors for each wheel? thanks asus
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10-28-2009, 04:58 AM	#2
E91_E88_E21 Major 41 Rep 1,300 Posts Drives: E91 m-sport, E88 m-sport Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Germany iTrader: (0)	go with nokian hakka or the WR G2 Hakk for deeper snow WR G2 for watery snow and rainy conditions __________________ Freude ist BMW E91 SG LCI m-sport,E88 AW m-sport
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10-28-2009, 09:48 AM	#3
fernande-bmw First Lieutenant 47 Rep 313 Posts Drives: 2010 335i E90 M-Sport Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Milwaukee, WI iTrader: (0)	Since I am researching this for the coming Milwaukee, WI winter, I will share I have found so far. The Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is strictly a winter tire with R-speed rating (106 mph). It is not a performance winter/snow tire. Hence, they handle extremely well in snow and ice. Probably the best around for bad snow weather conditions. However, they do not handle so well in dry/wet conditions. I have been told that these tires start losing grip with temperatures above 45 degrees. The Bridgestones Blizzak is a performance winter/snow tire with H-speed (130 mph) rated durability. I know several people who use these tires in WI and IL and are happy with them. The will not handle as well as the Nokian in snow/ice, but they will be better in dry/wet. You could probably look at the LM-25 or even the newer LM-60 for better tire threads. Another one to look at is the Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3. This has been suggested to be a better tire than the Blizzak. The suggested Nokian WR G2 is an all-season tire with an Asymmetrical tread design to handle the most extreme conditions. It has been suggested to me as the best all-season tire if you want to have them on the car all the time. Notice, however, that they will not handle the snow/ice as well as the Hakkapeliitta R. That's why it would be a better choice for watery snow and rainy conditions. My personal suggestion for a winter tire, is the Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme. Vredestein and Nokian are well-known competitors in Europe for winter tires, but not as well known in the USA. However, the Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme is a high performance snow/winter tire with H and V speed ratings. The tire provides a quiet ride and handles better than the Nokian Hakkapeliitta R in dry/wet conditions, but similarly in snow/ice. I have been told that they even last longer than the Dunlops, so that's a bonus. The Vredestein is cheaper than the Nokian, but could be more expensive than the Blizzak and Dunlop, depending on the model. As for the TPMS sensors/valves, you should install them in all the wheels. You could move the ones you have in your current wheels to the winter set, but I think it is better is you have a new dedicated set because they need to be calibrated for the specific wheel/tire they are on. You can find the OEM kit of four at Tischer BMW. I hope this helps!
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10-28-2009, 03:31 PM	#4
asus389 Captain 70 Rep 639 Posts Drives: 11 E90 328i Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 328i [0.00]	Thanks for the input. So you have driven on the Vredestein tires in Milwaukee?
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10-30-2009, 09:31 AM	#6
MBinIL Registered 0 Rep 1 Posts Drives: 330i Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Chicago iTrader: (0)	All, Just thought I chime in since I am using the LM-22 for the 5th season now... I can't speak for the Nokians or Vredesteins but I am VERY happy with the Blizzaks on my wife's 330i. She got the car 4 years ago to hit a traffic sign 2 weeks later the first day we had snow here in Chicago. IMHO the car with AS tires is almost undriveable in snow despite traction control. Thus I decided to get dedicated winter tires the following week. I got the LM-22s and put 2 40lbs. sandbags in the trunk. This combo turned the car from the worst vehicle in snow I've ever driven to a driveable and actually even fun car in winter. I have absolutely no complaints with the Blizzaks and am about to put them on on my Honda Element and my MB 300SDL (which probably beats the 330i in worst winter performance) as well. On a side note, even though I was late a few times with taking them off in spring. the tires still have quite a bit of thread left - have no numbers but thread life seems to be really good too. Hope this helps! MBinIL
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11-05-2009, 10:16 PM	#7
asus389 Captain 70 Rep 639 Posts Drives: 11 E90 328i Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Michigan iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 BMW 328i [0.00]	So another question - does using the RFT version of the more aggressive winter tires (ie WS-60 or Hakkapalita etc..) make them stiffer and thus handle better than the non RFT versions?
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11-05-2009, 10:54 PM	#8
bmwmike Lieutenant 28 Rep 542 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Coupe - SOLD Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada iTrader: (1)	The tires you want are a more advanced version of the RSi according to their website. Hopefully they fixed the issues I witnessed with the RFT RSi's I had: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...24&postcount=7 I would say, based on their similarity to the R, that they should probably not be used above freezing or warmer and only on snow or ice covered roads.
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