[JoeyBananaz18]

i know everyone is done with hearing about this shit. its completly .
see, i have a 335xi coupe on its way over here now. i have not experienced the problem first hand, however the last thing i think about every night is if im gonna have alot of problems like the many people on this forum already have.
can it really be that big of an issue? is there really nothing we can do to fix this (aside from getting BMWNA involved)?

heres my idea, and i cant stress this enough: hold the flame. im thinking optimistic here and want to see if we can finally put an end to this.
i know there are a few bmw techs here on the site. i was wondering if maybe a bunch of them would be able to get there hands on a blown fuel pump and try to see what aspect of that particular pump failed. perhaps with enough research we could put together a DIY and find a cure. i guess im just trying to rally up some bavarian inginuity. for all we know the fix might not be as bad as going to the dealer every few thousand miles. if someone could post pics of a good FP vs. a blown FP that would be great. thanks.

[Dwill335i]

To be honest, I'm sure BMW already has more than a few techs working on the problem. It's not good for them either financially or in PR space. I think part of the problem is that they seem to fail randomly. Some people have failures in 5-6K miles, other may go 25K or never have a failure. Getting a hold of one blown pump isn't going to solve the problem. I'm sure BMW has hundreds, if not thousands, of failed pumps to take apart for forensics.

[JoeyBananaz18]

i know they've got people on it too. but they will not redesign it, or issue a recall if its gonna cost them X amount of dollars. do you remember what was said in "fightclub" about recalls? one of us will die first.
i remember seeing a very detailed poll created by someone on this site and it could prob pinpoint those who are truly affected by it.
im just getting nervous about mine. i didnt drop 52k for problems. and i think that we may be able to do our own autopsy to see whats really going on. iv never heard of it being done before, so it couldnt hurt.

[mike-y]

I just find it amusing that every other manufacturer can use a fuel pump that works just fine with all types of gasolines, yet BMW still hasn't figured it out yet.

has someone tried to retrofit a pump from a porsche, STI, corvette, or other car making 300+ hp?

[DinoMite]

i also find it weird that they didn't fix this issues yet, i could understand if this was the first year of production, but after a few years they can't provide a pump that lasts for 4 years even?

[Saintor]

They don't care or they are incompetent. They are focused on the N55 now. Tough luck.

[D.B.S]

Also, do you think that BMW is going to let a customer (or a tech) just walk out with a Malfunctioned pump? I don't know of any stealership that lets its customers walk out with defective parts... But I could be wrong....

[JoeyBananaz18]

Originally Posted by Army335xi

Also, do you think that BMW is going to let a customer (or a tech) just walk out with a Malfunctioned pump? I don't know of any stealership that lets its customers walk out with defective parts... But I could be wrong....

true. but how many times do you read about a dealer "loosing" something that belongs to a customer. they prob could "misplace" it.

[D.B.S]

"misplace" it... LOL... it fell off the back of the truck... This is easier said than done... Now lets 'convince' a tech to 'misplace' a H*f* and ensure that B**N* doesn't read this thread... But they probably have already, and are going to check into any misplaced parts from now on... But honesty, when my HPFP goes bad I'm gonna ask for it... But I hope it doesn't go bad any time soon...

[The HACK]

Here's a thought. BMW knows exactly what's causing the problems. They know exactly how to fix it. But they won't. It's their motto.

Case in point. Nikisil inserts in aluminum V-8s in the 90s disintegrating in the U.S. Well known problem, EVERYONE knows the high sulfur content in U.S. fuel at the time destroys the nikisil cylinder liners, causing leak-down and compression problems on EVERY SINGLE V-8 sold to the United States. Solution? Nothing. BMW basically replaced each engine that blows up under warranty, and for owners out of warranty when their engine fails, you're on your own pal. A mid 90s 740iL can be had for like $500 today because no one will want a BMW V-8 with nikisil engine in it, or the bill associated with replacing said engine when, not if, it blows up. Someone figured once they're out of the warranty period BMW's no longer liable, and the cost to replace a few engines while under warranty, is cheaper than to scrap all their nikisil engines and start anew. Next generation V-8 comes with Alusil inserts.

Case 2: Rear subframe failure. It is a known issue on the E36es, and now it took a class action law-suit from E46 owners for BMW to acknowledge there might be a problem with how thin the chassis connection to the rear subframe is. Not saying everyone will fail, but the high failure rate plus most failure occurring outside of the warranty period means BMW doesn't give half a rat's ass to the design flaw. I wouldn't be surprised if said problem wasn't fixed in the E9X.

Case 3: S54 spun bearing. The first sets of engines were blowing up even as the E46 M3s were being introduced to the general public. Heck, there was speculation as to why the launch was delayed by 6 month...Rumors of early production S54s blowing up were rampant. What did BMW do? Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. It wasn't until SMG equipped E46 M3s started blowing their engine, and practically 100% of engines produced were blowing up, did BMW decide that it's time to implement that the newer M engines MUST use the most expensive motor oil known to man-kind, the Castrol TWS 10W-60, and did they make some changes to how the crank-bearings are designed and blamed the problem on one of their suppliers, when they knew, even before the S54 was released to the public, that there's a problem with the engine design and knew exactly how to fix it. Why? Because it would have cost them more money to implement the so-called bearing fix up front than to take the chance and blame it on "user error" or the so-called "over-rev" when engines start to blow up, knowing no owner will ever be able to resist the temptation to go all 8,000 RPM and fastest production piston velocity (at the time) on their car. Roll the dice, either spend the money to fix it up front, or spend the money to fix it later and hope that it doesn't happen to everyone. Well, it happened to EVERYONE.

So if BMW's prior history were any indication, for them to release an actual fix to the problem, it would have to mean 1. Every N54 would suffer catastrophic failure due to the HPFP or 2. Class action lawsuit.

Personally, I think the HPFP on the N54 will go the way of the Nikisil engine. Failure rate isn't high enough for BMW to be concerned, and most, when it fails, will fail outside of the warranty period. It doesn't appear to affect oversea's market and they can always blame it on the ethanol content in crappy U.S. gas.

They knew exactly what is wrong with it and how to fix it. They just chose not to.

[amiller212]

I guess we're lucky that they extended the warranty on the pump to 10 years.

[D.B.S]

Originally Posted by amiller212

I guess we're lucky that they extended the warranty on the pump to 10 years.

But extending the warranty is not the answer, as so many of us have stated... Doesn't really matter though, we (the consumer) continue to buy their brand, and even if we (the forum members) don't buy a BMW, someone else will, so the cycle will never end... As so many have stated we are all just a number to BMW, the 40-50K we all spent on the vehicle... Some of us have been lucky to not have the HPFP fail, and some of us not so lucky... Unless aftermarket support comes in to build a better HPFP we will continue to have this issue even after warranty expires... Even after the 10 years is up on the extended warranty (if any of us even keeps this car for more than 10 years) Hopefully in 10 years they will have fixed the issue (which i doubt)

[JoeyBananaz18]

Originally Posted by The HACK

2. Class action lawsuit.

any lawyers on the forum.

[galahad05]

That was some scary reading right there, Hack.

[DrivingPassion]

I have an official response from BMW USA that the HPFP has been replaced with a different one for all 2009 models.

[samchoi604]

Originally Posted by DrivingPassion

I have an official response from BMW USA that the HPFP has been replaced with a different one for all 2009 models.

that would be great. Wonder if they fit in the 2007 and 2008 models.

[Hyper psi-atic]

theres been quite a few cases of people with 2009's having faulty HPFP's as well so definitely not fixed.

JoeyBananaz18 > although there hasnt been any official definitive answer on the cause for the defect....the general consensus is that the seals on the HPFP are defective when combined with the common E10 (Gasohol / 10% Ethanol -80% Gasoline) Mixture mandated for use in most states in the US. Ethanol is used for emissions standards and to lower the US dependency on foreign oil, but there is alot that goes into the chemical process to maintain the conponents in a single phase fluid thus not allowing seperation from Ethanol, water, oil causing the common stall. Temperature drop has a factor in this as well. I do not know too much about the process or the chemical design but I do know that if I were to as you say create a DIY there would most likely be more time, money and effort in the research and development of this fix than its worth. It would be great to be able to substitute another MFR's HPFP seal or part, but based upon our relatively unique fuel injection design this would be very hard to find a simple retrofit.


My solution is for everyone that has the problem to confront BMWNA to log the problem and then depending on the amount of times it happens, threaten BMWFS with subtracting a portion out of your monthly payment owed based upon the time your car was in the shop. I for one dont agree to having to pay $560/month for a car that i would only have the potential to drive for 25 days out of the month due to shop time. This would be far fetched but if they get enough people threatening with Lemon Law and faulty part claims in class action suits then BMWNA would ahve to take notice.

[cronus]

Originally Posted by DrivingPassion

I have an official response from BMW USA that the HPFP has been replaced with a different one for all 2009 models.

As Hyper said, '09 pumps are failing.

I'd really like to see a copy of this "official response". It could be very valuable in legal proceedings should BMW not extend the HPFP warranty on '09s.

[Dwill335i]

Originally Posted by Hyper psi-atic

My solution is for everyone that has the problem to confront BMWNA to log the problem and then depending on the amount of times it happens, threaten BMWFS with subtracting a portion out of your monthly payment owed based upon the time your car was in the shop. I for one dont agree to having to pay $560/month for a car that i would only have the potential to drive for 25 days out of the month due to shop time. This would be far fetched but if they get enough people threatening with Lemon Law and faulty part claims in class action suits then BMWNA would ahve to take notice.

Good luck with withholding your monthly payments. You'll simply lose in court and take a hit on your credit. You signed a contract to pay BMWFS $X per month for your car, period. BMW never guaranteed in a legal sense that your car would never have a problem with the HPFP. They do guarantee in writing that they will fix problems under the terms of the warranty. As long as they keep fixing the problem, they are not breaching their end of the contract. However, if you stop paying them, you are breaching your end of the contract and that's what they will say.

Lemon laws are fine, if you have enough failures the the right time period to invoke it. IF you do, then you can use the lemon law. But the reality is that for most people the failures are not frequent enough for the lemon law to apply. People would use it if they could.

[JoeyBananaz18]

Originally Posted by DrivingPassion

I have an official response from BMW USA that the HPFP has been replaced with a different one for all 2009 models.

could it be for later '09 build dates?

[stuynet]

What happen to the post by another user where he was collecting HPFP failure data? It should have been a sticky.

[chumley]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Here's a thought. BMW knows exactly what's causing the problems. They know exactly how to fix it. But they won't. It's their motto.

Personally, I think the HPFP on the N54 will go the way of the Nikisil engine. Failure rate isn't high enough for BMW to be concerned, and most, when it fails, will fail outside of the warranty period. It doesn't appear to affect oversea's market and they can always blame it on the ethanol content in crappy U.S. gas.

They knew exactly what is wrong with it and how to fix it. They just chose not to.

As a long-time owner of BMW's I think you are totally, completely, 100% correct.