[Dux]

Hello everyone! I haven’t logged on for awhile but I’m glad to be back.

Anyways, I just wanted to get some opinions/advice about my recent car buying experience.

On Sunday, I went to test drive a 2002 M3 Convertible with 35K miles for about $23000 and trade in my 2006 325i with 57K miles. After about a few hours of test driving and negotiations, we finally settled on the financing for 7.24%.

On Tuesday, I came to check out the car to swap the out rims and to check the progress of the full detail. To my surprise they wanted to speak to me when I came in about the financing. They told me they could not get me the original 7.24% financing I signed for and the new rate they could only get me was 9.59% instead, b/c they tried all their best to find a financial institution to get me a rate of 7.24%. Again after about a few more hours of renegotiating, I told them I was very disappointed (and very irritated) that they would try to get me to sign a new contract with a higher interest rate. They manipulated the calculations, including extending loan term and even showed me that they could offer me more for my trade in, to bring the monthly payment lower. Knowing better, I knew not to negotiate a vehicle with just monthly payment and I paid attention to the closing cost at the end of the term, which was getting bigger due to the increased interest rate. I told them several times that I wanted to void the contract and get my 325i back b/c I have the right to do so if the original contract was changed. They did not allow me to void my contract at that time and told me to come back tomorrow.

I came back the next day and again I spoke to another person from the dealership, so this would be the 4th person I’ve talked to. He told me that they found a financial institution to get me the interest rate I originally signed for at 7.29% and that original contract stands. After speaking to him for a couple of hours about how I was disappointed and I just wanted my 325i back b/c of the experience yesterday. I believe they attempted to sign me a new contract with a higher interest rate and I felt they were scamming me for more money. I told him my experience here was terrible and I did not want the M3 anymore because of what they put me through. I told them I was surprised what they could have offered me on Sunday, like more money for my trade in or lowered the price of the warranty, but did not originally. Also, I was upset that they were manipulating the monthly payment but still costing me more overall at the end of the term. In the end, the person told me that I signed the original contract and I had to keep the M3, even though I tried to have them void it on Tuesday.

I know this is a long story but I just wanted to get anyone’s opinion/advice on this and if I should hire an attorney to get my car back. I know the M3 is a much better car but after that experience it spoiled the M3 for me.

Thanx

[daniel3ooo]

Wait so do you have the M3 in your possession? I think its very dishonest for them to try to change the terms of the contract. If you really are dissatisfied with the M3 then fight as hard as you can before you hire an attorney because that's just going to cost you more money...

I just don't understand why you couldn't void the contract when they spiked the APR.

[chef_geek]

In today's world I'm surprised dealerships are treating customers this way.

[PYSpeed.com]

Originally Posted by chef_geek

In today's world I'm surprised dealerships are treating customers this way.

Exactly, it's Buyers market everywhere these days!

[SpmnE9zero]

Ok from the beginning.
I am not sure about the laws in your state but in PA a dealer has the right to hold two points over the banks rate.
So you and the SA settle on terms before you send it over to the bank, the bank associate (if you will) looks over the terms set by the dealership and makes a determination of behalf of the bank if they will finance you for the terms that the dealership thought they could get you. After they look it all over they will either; send it back approved with terms presented to the bank and you are now entitled to take ownership of the car, or they can say well I am thinking this person has relatively shakey credit or high debt to income ratio so I think we should approve him but for say 1% point higher than the dealership has sent to us. Either way you get approved for the car.
Now when the dealership receives their fax back they look at the terms that the bank WILL finance you for and make a determination of whether or not they think they can push you (the consumer) into a higher payment and this is where it gets a little sticky.
If the SA thinks he can push you into a higher payment he will tell you that he got you approved but it is a higher rate than we thought we could get you, then they will probably say that you had some past experience with shakey credit and make you feel like you really dont even deserve to own this car and that you were really even lucky to get approved at all (salesman BS). However, the dealership is "by our wonderful laws" allowed to hold two points over the bank rate. meaning if the bank approved the loan for 5.0 % they are allowed to hold you to a 7.0 % rate and make money on the loan on what is called the "back end of the deal"
This is probably what was being done to you and you are obviously a lot smarter than they thought.
Now on the other subject returning a car is very difficult to do. The dealership told you to come back because once you leave the lot after signing a contract your odds of being able to return a car diminish substantually. I was screwed about 6 years ago in something similar to this. It used to be you had again "by law" 30 days to return a car, not that has seemed to have gone away and dealerships have become total assholes about this. I wish I had more info for ya but in the end I owned my vehicle and could not get out of it. Now you never left the lot with the car and baught it on false pretences, different story all together, talk to a lawyer most will give you some info over the phone.
good luck

[1N54E92]

WOW... what a bunch of DBs! Leave the M3 and that dealership. Don't ever go back.For little bit more money you can a buy a 335i. Go talk to a lawyer but the dealership should void the contract. It's the right thing to do. good business practice. check around and get financing on your own. credit union ? Pentagon Federal ? Navy credit union ? etc.

[SpmnE9zero]

Originally Posted by 1ntense135i

WOW... what a bunch of DBs! Leave the M3 and that dealership. Don't ever go back.For little bit more money you can a buy a 335i. Go talk to a lawyer but the dealership should void the contract. It's the right thing to do. good business practice. check around and get financing on your own. credit union ? Pentagon Federal ? Navy credit union ? etc.

+1

[chumley]

+2 They don't deserve your business or your $$.

I am a little fuzzy on how all this happens though. Whether financing or paying cash, I have never left a dealership without having the entire deal spelled out, in writing and signed - done. In fact, I have never left a dealership without my new car - unless I ordered it and I certainly didn't leave them my current car while waiting.

Are you saying you had some sort of verbal deal, left both the new car and the trade in and when you came back you were pushed into the new rate? So they have both cars?

[David1]

This is why alot of dealers no longer "spot" cars or deliver a car without final bank approval.

[kgb1637]

So you left them with your car before you got the one you were buying? I would NEVER do that.

[Grentz]

I know what you went through was bad, but you got the results you wanted in the end right?

The buying process sucks at times with cars, but you got what you wanted in the end so you should be happy IMO. You got the car you wanted at the financing rate you wanted.

[Dux]

I posted this on M3post but decided to post the reply here as well.

This did not happen at Delon (or O'brian), which by the way was great at getting my first E90 325i, but good size non-BMW stealership in the Salem, OR area.

On Friday, I spoke to a consumer fraud attorney in the Portland, OR area and he told me what they tried to get me to do was wrong and what I did was right for not signing for a new contract with a higher interest rate. He told me the day they could not get me the original rate I signed for they should have allowed me to void my contract but they did not. He instructed me to contact the Oregon Attorney General’s office and get their input on.

I then called the Attorney General's (AG) consumer hotline number and spoke to a representative. I described my circumstances to him and he told me that since I signed a binding contract I am stuck with it b/c they did, at the end, fulfill the original agreement. He told me that the AG will not back me on this b/c it involves a written binding agreement but I still have the option to pursue it with an attorney.

When I told the attorney from Portland, OR what the AG rep told me, he called them himself and told me that I was stuck too. The attorney from portland, OR told me that since I signed the contract and took possession of the car the first day, the day before they decided to increase the interest rate, that gave them 14 days to find me financing. He told me a case could go both ways and I can actually do more harm than good for myself.

The dealership now wants me to come in again (for the 4th time) to sign another piece of paper b/c they claimed I signed it in the wrong place. They told me it was the Oregon Secured Power of Attorney for Motor Vehicles and needed it to "pay off my existing loan". I really don't want to sign another piece of paper so I will again call the attorney in Portland and the AG tomorrow about this document.

Now to be honest I am fed up with this. What they tried to do is actually causing me extreme anxiety b/c I really don't want the car anymore. The fact that they showed me how much more they could have given me for my trade-in, they could have lowered the warranty more, even given me more for the M3, and the whole increasing the interest rate deal, made the whole car buying experience sick to my stomach. Believe me the E46 M3 is a great car and a lot better than my e90 325i but I really don't want to pay off a car I don't want for the next few years.

I’ll get back to you guys again when after I make that call….

[seanl]

Originally Posted by chef_geek

In today's world I'm surprised dealerships are treating customers this way.

Because a leopard can't change it's spots....?

[1N54E92]

get your own financing. Credit Union ? 3.9 % for some credit union. do your homework before you go back to the dealership.Even if you don't get 3.9 % for 60 months from credit union , I am sure you will get a better rate than going through the douche bag dealership's financing offers.