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      09-24-2008, 11:12 PM   #1
Robert
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Fourth and Fifth Problem. Sad Day. Opening communication with BMWNA

Guys, today has been a bad day. Those of you who followed my last thread know that my car was taken to dealer for SRS failure light and long cranks. The result was a replaced switch, a brand new 3rd generation fuel pump, and an software update. I was ecstatic about the progress they made but celebration soon ended

I did a late pick up from dealer (service dept is off for the night,) and the first thing I noticed is I lost the auto up capability on my driver side window while passenger side auto up and down feature is still functional. I quickly deduced this is not a feature of new software but a bug. However this is a minor flaw I can wait till the weekend.

As I am driving home on the freeway, I noticed engine rattles and shudders a lot during acceleration in 6th gear around 65. But if I down shift to 5th and accelerated from 65 the rattle was still there but more subdued. Subsequently I tried acceleration with different combinations of speed and gear. The problem can be duplicated and most noticeable from accelerating at taller gear. (For example, going 35mph and accelerate to 60 in 6th.)

All of sudden the car went into limp mode with service engine light on, the dot matrix display showed a half shaded engine and the iDrive said engine malfunction. Now the engine shakes at every gear and speed under acceleration. Good thing I was half a mile from home. I parked my car in the garage and scheduled a tow tomorrow. No way I will risk driving it back to dealer..


I am extremely disappointed with the car, not BMW, and it's a huge letdown when the car just serviced runs into problem before I arrived home. I am calling BMWNA tomorrow to open a dialogue to lemon the car. Four dealer visits within the first 6 month of ownership is unacceptable and I can't fathom the problems I would encounter after warranty expired. I hope BMW will do the right thing otherwise I will be really disappointed with the company. I am not sure if I would get straight into another 135i yet. Maybe another car with BMW later. I still have my civic commuter in the meantime.


Anyone care to speculate what the problem is? I can provided additional information if needed. The car is stock, no modification besides clearbra on the hood for paint protection.
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      09-24-2008, 11:25 PM   #2
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I am sorry to hear it. I hope you get the resolution you need for all this.
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      09-24-2008, 11:35 PM   #3
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Damn. That really sucks. I don't blame you for starting with the lemon law though. I have to admit, it bothers me when mine goes into limp mode every time I take a road trip, and I think about the kind of money it might cost to keep it running over the long haul.
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      09-24-2008, 11:45 PM   #4
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Maybe it's my luck and I got a lemon from the bunch.
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      09-24-2008, 11:54 PM   #5
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Well hopefully BMW NA will step and not play games like they did with my friend's Z4 issue. I advised him to hire a lemon law attorney last year and within 2 months BMW bought it back. I had bad experience with BMW NA in 2004 with my 330cic that kept stalling sporadically. Mine was in the shop similar amount of times as yours and BMW NA kept lagging . Then I hired a lemon law attorney and everything was taken care of and BMW bought it back and gave back my down payment and all payments I made to the vehicle. Hope they have gotten better in responding to issues without having to get an attorney. Good Luck!! Keep us posted.
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      09-25-2008, 10:14 AM   #6
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I'm sorry to hear you're having so many problems. I wish we could find a correlation to limp mode issues and HPFP, (ie driving style, octane rating, etc.)

I've had good experiences with BMWNA in the past. They offered to lemon two vehicles for minor issues in comparison, fickle transmission in E46 and sticky gas pedal in E36 M3. both issues were eventually fixed and cars ran without a problem for 100,000+ miles.

Start compiling a detailed letter to BMWNA with ever little detail with dates, symptoms, work done, shop papers, etc. CC the dealership of your actions.

Best of luck. Don't settle for anything less than you expect.
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      09-25-2008, 02:51 PM   #7
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Called BMWNA today and I did not feel like I am being treated right. First the engine chirping noise was not in their record, despite they called me few times about before it died off. So the record is lost and they have no clue it ever occurred.

Second she said the same exact problem had to happen for it to be lemon. I told her the car is in the shop 3 times already on engine problem to what extent of similarity does problems have to be? I gave her an example, to clarify the policy, of 4 different bolts on the engine and come loose one by one. Is this four separate issue? She said YES! So the same bolt have to come loose 4 times before lemon can be envoked. I could not believe it. I then ask her is this not the same problem of bad bolt design?

She also said I should deal with service manager before calling BMWNA. I told her the purpose of the call is to document everything.
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      09-25-2008, 03:30 PM   #8
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Asking BMW about your states lemon laws is going about it from the wrong angle. They deffinately are not on your side for this. In TN there is a state agency that handles lemons and would be able to help you get the process rolling. I'd look for CAs version.
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      09-25-2008, 03:55 PM   #9
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Robert, you can fix the auto up feature yourself i believe. just lower the window all the way down manually and then raise it to the top and hold the "up" button for a minute after it closes. this resets the window.

i had a similar issue after i disconnected the battery with the drivers side door open, and it fixed it.
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      09-25-2008, 03:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Damn. That really sucks. I don't blame you for starting with the lemon law though. I have to admit, it bothers me when mine goes into limp mode every time I take a road trip, and I think about the kind of money it might cost to keep it running over the long haul.
can you please elaborate? I haven't heard of this. I'm taking a trip this weekend. (i did this trip once when the car was new, so i didn't take it to high rpms that time, tomorrow i don't plan on being so gentle).
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      09-25-2008, 04:04 PM   #11
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I'd be saying the same thing as holo777, so...


Document everything in writing, and don't get too angry that it clouds your judgement or the ability to be "nice" so you can get the help you need. If you are not getting good results with 1 individual at BMW, maybe try dealing with someone else. Sounds kind of fishy on their part. Maybe it's a basic method to make sure you are truely worthy of a replacement? No idea.

I feel for you... man this sucks!

All the best...

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      09-25-2008, 04:08 PM   #12
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Don't call them....email them instead....that way you have a written record of their response and your inquiries.
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      09-25-2008, 04:12 PM   #13
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This is not your situation, but worth reading...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16269

BMW NA and 1addicts helped. Hopefully it will work for you too.

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      09-25-2008, 05:41 PM   #14
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I have remained calm and polite during the entire conversation, but the rep's attitude was obvious. Don't deal with us yet, go talk your service department first; Attorney is going to be costly; if something is broken more than once it has to be the exact same atom that broke not the one next over. The tone was definitely cold and unsympathetic.

I know all about not to over react and employ the agent's help using keywords. Frankly, all I wanted her to do is document my complaint so I can bring it up later. I know she's not empowered to make any decision. Another thing I learned from negotiation reading is if they aren't empowered to help you, politely ask for someone who can otherwise it's a waste of time.

Emailing them is a good idea. I am going to email them and mail them a hardcopy with certified mail. Btw, She failed to mention that lemon law can also be apply towards a problem that may cause death or serious injury and that fix only requires 2 fixes, not 4.
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      09-25-2008, 05:46 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EspressoBoy View Post
This is not your situation, but worth reading...

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16269

BMW NA and 1addicts helped. Hopefully it will work for you too.

EspressoBoy


That thread is about me and my car issues. The process is still now totally complete but at this point the car is running fine.

It sounds like you are experiecing the same issues I had on your way home. Mine ended up being a bad coil in one of the cylinders. I have only had the car back for three days now after they replaced the coil so I do not know for sure if the issue is fixed. Of course I had to take the car in 5 times for the dealership to finally figure out what the issue was:iono:

Good luck and keep an eye on the thread Espressoboy posted above as I will keep it up to date with my process:w00t:

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      09-25-2008, 09:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermojorizin View Post
can you please elaborate? I haven't heard of this. I'm taking a trip this weekend. (i did this trip once when the car was new, so i didn't take it to high rpms that time, tomorrow i don't plan on being so gentle).

Ok, here's the situation with mine:

I live really close to work, so during my normal week, the car is rarely ever running more than 15-20 minutes at a time.

I've been on several road trips since I got the car though, and every time I've been on a trip the car has gone into limp mode. A couple of times I just pulled over and turned the engine off for a couple of seconds, started it back up and it was back to normal.

A few weeks ago I was headed to Loisville and noticed it was running rough. A minute later the limp mode kicked in, so I pulled over and shut it off. It was idling rough when I stopped, and it didn't go away for a couple of minutes when I started it back up this time.

The last time it did it, I shut it off, and a couple of minutes after I started it back up, it came back on again, and started missing. I was down to about a 1/4 of a tank, and that's when I realized that every time it had acted up I was getting around that same point.

I stopped and filled it up, problem solved. This was a couple of weekends ago after the hurricane, so I didn't take any chances on my way home and stopped for fuel pretty often coming across TN. No issues at all.

It's my theroy that the HPFP is heating up when the tank is low. I just don't have the time to take it in right now.
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      09-26-2008, 02:28 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
A few weeks ago I was headed to Loisville and noticed it was running rough. A minute later the limp mode kicked in, so I pulled over and shut it off. It was idling rough when I stopped, and it didn't go away for a couple of minutes when I started it back up this time.

The last time it did it, I shut it off, and a couple of minutes after I started it back up, it came back on again, and started missing. I was down to about a 1/4 of a tank, and that's when I realized that every time it had acted up I was getting around that same point.
My problem reset itself in the morning too but I had almost tank full of gas. If I am to take a wild guess I am pointing my finger at the software. And who knows if the software could have damaged my engine before safety kicked in.
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      09-26-2008, 06:58 AM   #18
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Robert,

I'm sorry that you are having a horrible experience with BMW. I have to suggest that contacting BMW NA won't do much, since you're speaking with receptionists with a "book of answers."

The advice to speak with your service department about the lemon is a better approach. The dealer will obviously fight this, but in the end what can they do but honor the law?

Also, we have had a car in our shop with similiar symptoms, however it was a 128i. We replaced the mechatronics unit, and the customer has yet to come back. I cannot confirm that this is your issue because I am not a tech for one thing, and because I haven't actually driven your car for the second.

I hope all works out well and your dealership does the right thing for you. United BMW has honored the lemon law and bought back a 335i convertible during the first month of it's release (hard top wouldn't close, period).
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      09-26-2008, 07:27 AM   #19
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robert,


Glad you bumped into I-One-Da?, and now Dan@UnitedBMW!

Put the bad experience aside for now, think of the car, and getting answers. You are a guy who can work though this!

1 day at a time...
1 car at a time...
1 addict at a time...

It's sad how this bad phone rep has given you heartache. (obviously she does not have a 1, and could be jealous, and is probably from dark side!). I have had exact same experiences with other businesses... and not just 1 time. Each and every time I persisted and got through it.

Keep going, you will find the answers you seek.

Just keep doing what you are doing, and take the advice and see how far you can go. After all, like you said, lawyers seldom solve the problem, that should be only as a very last result.

EspressoBoy

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Fear leads to anger.
Anger leads to hate.
Hate leads to suffering.

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      09-26-2008, 10:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremyc74 View Post
Ok, here's the situation with mine:

I live really close to work, so during my normal week, the car is rarely ever running more than 15-20 minutes at a time.

I've been on several road trips since I got the car though, and every time I've been on a trip the car has gone into limp mode. A couple of times I just pulled over and turned the engine off for a couple of seconds, started it back up and it was back to normal.

A few weeks ago I was headed to Loisville and noticed it was running rough. A minute later the limp mode kicked in, so I pulled over and shut it off. It was idling rough when I stopped, and it didn't go away for a couple of minutes when I started it back up this time.

The last time it did it, I shut it off, and a couple of minutes after I started it back up, it came back on again, and started missing. I was down to about a 1/4 of a tank, and that's when I realized that every time it had acted up I was getting around that same point.

I stopped and filled it up, problem solved. This was a couple of weekends ago after the hurricane, so I didn't take any chances on my way home and stopped for fuel pretty often coming across TN. No issues at all.

It's my theroy that the HPFP is heating up when the tank is low. I just don't have the time to take it in right now.
These symptoms you describe are dead on with what happens to me. The only time the car goes into limp mode is when I have been on the freeway cruising for awhile (about 10 miles).

The first two times it happened I was on about a 1/4 tank so I thought that might be the issue but the car has since gone into limp mode 4 times while on 3/4 to full tanks.

Good Luck,

Brandon:drinking:
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      09-26-2008, 12:08 PM   #21
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Something else I should add to my report:

On the last road trip I did to VA (which resulted in limp mode on the way) I did some pretty serious mountain passes with the car, and had no Limp mode issues at all while doing it. I was running the car hard in 2nd and 3rd gear, and while the oil temperature went above normal, the car performed just as it should have.

This makes me think there's something going on with the pump specifically at highway speeds. It makes me wonder if the fuel pressure regulation is causing higher current draw in low flow situations than when driving around town, or running the car hard.

I'm not sure exactly how they have the fuel pressure system set up, so it's only speculation, but I've seen things like that in industrial applications, where a pump speed setting can cause overheating in low demand situations.

No matter what the cause, I'd just like to see a solid fix for it. Things like this make me pretty nervous about hanging on to this car once the warranty is up. My last BMW ('97 318ti) was slow, but it was dead reliable right up to 140k miles when I sold it. This one has had me thinking I was about to be taking the "shoe leather express" on several occasions, and I don't even have 12k miles on it yet.
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      09-26-2008, 12:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-One-Da? View Post
These symptoms you describe are dead on with what happens to me. The only time the car goes into limp mode is when I have been on the freeway cruising for awhile (about 10 miles).

The first two times it happened I was on about a 1/4 tank so I thought that might be the issue but the car has since gone into limp mode 4 times while on 3/4 to full tanks.

Good Luck,

Brandon:drinking:

It sound like it's the same problem, but yours is just a little worse than mine.
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