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      03-30-2008, 11:44 AM   #1
jonack
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10w60 oil

A friend of mine who sold BMWs for years (Now Volvos)..told me to use 10w60 oil in my 135i. He also said to change the oil at 1500 miles, and every 5000 miles thereafter... He told me that he got this information from BMW literature( Roundel, etc.) , which he reads relgiously...

He told me not to follow the BMW line with this particular engine, which suggests 5w30 oil at 15000.00 miles...

I need your input???? Is he right???
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      03-30-2008, 12:48 PM   #2
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I would stick with the 5w-30 oil. The oil is synthetic. I would change the oil between 2000-3000 miles for your first oil change. After that Its up to you if you want to wait until 15,000 miles...(Every 5000 miles seems good).
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      03-30-2008, 12:53 PM   #3
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Always take technical 'advice' form salesmen with a grain of salt. They sell the cars; they don't work on them.

10w60 oil is for M-cars only. The N54 is designed to use BMW's 5W30 synthetic oil; use of the Motorsport oil may damage the engine.

Change intervals are up to you, but the first 1500 mile change is not necessary. The 15,000 mile interval is adequate (not to mention free), but you may want to half it if you do a lot of stop-and-go driving or make a lot of short trips. Anything more often than that is a waste of money.
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      03-30-2008, 03:12 PM   #4
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Roundel is not really "BMW literature"... There may be useful tech info in there, but it is not necessarily coming from BMW. Put about as much faith in it as any magazine (or any forum, for that matter).

The general rule of thumb in the E46 world is to change the oil and filter every 7500 miles. I'm guessing the 135i should be similar, but as always, the best method is to check the oil occasionally and change it when it needs it.
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      03-30-2008, 06:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcisse91 View Post
the best method is to check the oil occasionally and change it when it needs it.

The N54 doesn't have a dipstick
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      03-30-2008, 08:10 PM   #6
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15k OCI seems like a BAD idea for this particular engine. (Probably fine for the non turbo/non direct injected engines though.) Hard data already exists to back this up, if you really want to find it.
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      03-30-2008, 09:29 PM   #7
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so is the consensus to just stick to using the casterol/bmw 5w-30?
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      04-18-2008, 06:43 AM   #8
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Turbo motors should not be run with 10-w60. the chemical compunds that are used in creating oils with large viscosity change are much more prone to coking up your turbo bearings when subjected to high heat loads from the turbos. 5-w30 full synthetic is the choise
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      04-18-2008, 03:50 PM   #9
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I still have some 5W40 Castrol euro formula. Might use it. 0w40 for winter in my case
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      04-18-2008, 04:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roberttran View Post
The N54 doesn't have a dipstick
IIRC there's still a way to check the level through iDrive or the On Board Computer if you didn't spec the Nav :iono:
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      04-18-2008, 05:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drillslinger View Post
IIRC there's still a way to check the level through iDrive or the On Board Computer if you didn't spec the Nav :iono:
That will provide you with the oil level but you'll still have no clue what the condition of the oil is.
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      04-18-2008, 07:12 PM   #12
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The oil level sensor is also a condition sensor.
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      04-20-2008, 02:25 AM   #13
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You can remove the filler cap or the oil filter cover if you need to look at your oil.
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      04-20-2008, 05:22 AM   #14
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"Roundel is not really "BMW literature"... There may be useful tech info in there, but it is not necessarily coming from BMW. Put about as much faith in it as any magazine (or any forum, for that matter)."

W-a-y too much generalizing. Roundel offers each month a collection of feature articles, written by BMW owners with varying levels of mechanical ability, and also a Q&A column that is hosted by Mike Miller and which features A's from a wide range of well-known, long-term BMW mechanics and shop owners. Moreover, Miller answers every Q he receives via email, not just those in his column. To clump the content in Miller's column with the editorial content and/or the feature articles in Roundel is in error.

What you should expect to get when talking with your BMW service advisor or technician is a mix of BMW experience and BMW's/BMW NA's corporate view. To consider this gospel in the absence of independent information would be to operate half-blind, and the lube service intervals recommended by BMW is a good example. Folks here would do well to read Miller's (and his contributor's) comments on lubrication schedules and lube oil choices. These are more informed and written from an owner's and mechanics' viewpoint, with more historical perspective than you'll get from BMW or most BMW owners.

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      05-02-2008, 03:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mprhead5 View Post
Turbo motors should not be run with 10-w60. the chemical compunds that are used in creating oils with large viscosity change are much more prone to coking up your turbo bearings when subjected to high heat loads from the turbos. 5-w30 full synthetic is the choise
Then why would BMW designate it as "Motorsports 10W60" and use it in the M cars? They are much more highly stressed than the regular cars and generally speaking see higher oil temps. (Well perhaps not higher than the 335, but higher than the rest).

BMW seem to think the 10W60 oil lasts better in stressed environments - ideal for the N54 then?


Unless your comment on the chemical compounds referred specifically to this Castrol oil... :iono:
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      05-02-2008, 04:17 PM   #16
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Because the 'M'otorsports cars don't have turbo engines.
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      05-02-2008, 04:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red135 View Post
Because the 'M'otorsports cars don't have turbo engines.
Nothing magical about turbos - same stress (HP, torque) and high heat. Perhaps not as much in an E46 M3 as a 335, but in both cases a lot more than in a 330/328 etc.

Am I wrong?
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      05-02-2008, 05:32 PM   #18
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If BMW thought 10W60 would work in the N54, they would use it. It doesn't, so they don't.
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      05-02-2008, 06:00 PM   #19
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Too many opinions, I'll add one more...

I am using ONLY Castrol 10W-60 in my two last cars.
My previous car was a Honda CRX VTEC M.Y. 1992 and my current is a Mazda MX5.

The reason...

About 4 years ago when I was editor in chief of the Greek publication of EVO magazine, we decided to make a technical article about automotive oils.
We turned for help to N.T.U.A. (National Technical University of Athens) where there is a Labaratory of Fuels and Lubricants.

We provided them with several samples of used oils from several cars, one of which was my CRX VTEC in which I had 10W-60 (a friend had recommended it and I gave it a try).

Although Honda specifies 5000 miles between oil changes, I had the Castrol in the pan over 9000 miles (wrong I know but lets stick with the facts).

The lab results for the 9000 miles used Castrol 10W-60 were simply brilliant. As NTUA said to us, this oil is doing a superb job in many areas.

After that, I decided that this is the oil I want to use in my cars, so that is what I do.

As for the 135 engine, lets remember some basic parameters...


Turbo engines generate more heat and they operate under higher thermal loads.

Turbo engine abuse oil harder.

Turbo engines need oil to work under harder conditions

Oil is not responsible only for lubricational purposes, but one of its main duties is heat management as well (IIRC about one third of the engine cooling goes to the oil)

Oil viscosity is decreasing with milage

and many others parameters.


So, I know what oil I would like to use I drove a 135.
You?

edit: In this link, here is what a Mazda Motor Corporation engineer thinks about Castrol 10W-60 oil...

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=203665
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      05-02-2008, 06:44 PM   #20
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Bet you didnt know that at one time BMW had recommended

All their models change the first oil at 1200 miles, along with all the other fluids - tranny, and differential. Now they only specify that for the M versions. That German Castrol 10/60 is only available at the dealer and at the time I bought my first M in 2002, it was $ 19.00/Litre and you needed 7 to do the change in the S54 M inline 6. Now BMW wants everyone to feel good about going 15k on oil and its free or something, but the specs of the engines havent changed that much, only for the better in that they make more h/p and are more efficient with things like direct injection, etc.. My feeling is that yes, Turbos will heat the oil up more than regular engines, in the Turbo area as it is used to cool the bearings there. There used to be a practice followed by many that was to idle a turbo'd car or a few seconds longer before shutting it off, to allow the oil to cool down the bearings some,or drive it slower after racing it, to do the same thing. Oils have improved much since then, but you have do decide how much you think the turbo bearings can take vs cooling, etc. Alot of people who advertise in Roundel, Dinan, and Active Autowerks, 2 of the biggest tuners out there for BMW sell bigger oil coolers already for these vehicles, and they are not inexpensive. These guys are also getting another 100+ hp from the same engines.
The German Castrol 10/60 or any German Castrol oil found for sale here in the US will be more likely to meet all the specs BMW wants, so just watch out for that when you buying your oil. It of course, goes without saying that the BMW oil which I have found to be cheaper, will meet all those specs already.
In my experience, more oil changes are required for turbo'd engines because of the heat and stress put on the oil.
Good luck with your own decisions on this. I know what works for me, and will continue to do it. Eveyone will drive differently and have different temps, etc., to deal with. Been a member of BMWCCA since 2000, and learned alot from the club and had alot of fun with it. Oh and they discount your car sometimes $1k or more depending on the model and something like 7% if you take European delivery from their factory in Germany..
Good luck - love these cars and may get a 1 series soon myself. DanF
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      05-03-2008, 03:36 AM   #21
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Hi, new to this forum but thought I could add some insight into this topic from a race car perspective, which should be the same here.

Put simply 10W-60 oil is thicker at a given high temperature than a 5W-30 oil is.

Now forgetting about turbos (cause I don't know enough about how oil interacts with them), at lets say 150 degrees (C) oil temp, using a 10W-60 oil will provide great protection to the engine by giving everything a nice think coating. Whereas at the same temp, a 5W-30 is giving a thinner coat of oil protection that is inherently going to cause slightly more wear, and "dirty" the oil sooner. So the case for 10W-60 looks good.

However if you're after every HP on offer, 10W-60 oil is a lot harder to push around the engine, and actually creates a slightly less slippery coating with surfaces, so an engine using 5W-30 with rev slightly quicker and potentially have some more horses (or part of a horse) under the bonnet than a similar engine using 10W-60 oil.

Now if BMW recommends 5W-30 oil, that can mean a few things:
1. The engine's oiling systems can't handle/don't like thick oil;
2. The 135i engine has lower oil temps than the BMW M cars;
3. The engine components are designed to wear correctly using 5W-30 oil; or
4. BMW doesn't think 135i owners are going to drive the cars hard enough to warrant full-time usage of a heavier oil.

What this all means, is pretty simple. If you plan on driving the car hard, change the 5W-30 oil more frequently, or use a heavier oil like 10W-60 (unless BMW specially recommends against using it for your car).

Hope that helps.
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      05-03-2008, 12:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Dragon View Post
If BMW thought 10W60 would work in the N54, they would use it. It doesn't, so they don't.
I'll have to say it's most likely due to economic reasons, rather than technical. It's more than twice as expensive as the 5W30.

But they did recommend it in the M cars, which are most likely to be driven harder, revved more and/or driven at the track.

Considering the other cost reducing measures they've implemented lately (15k oil intervals, lifetime tranny/diff oil etc.) it doesn't surprise me they haven't recommended it for the 135i, 535i and 335i - and who knows ho wmany other models where this engine will be used. The economics are simply not there.

But on the other hand, if someone has a scientific explanation (oil analysis, white papers whatever) to say this specific oil won't work, then I'll gladly accept that over any of my previous opinions.

BTW, when I told abou the oil to my SA, he didn't really bat an eye - just asked me if I knew how expensive it was. :iono:
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