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      02-27-2008, 04:04 PM   #1
john970
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M3 upgrade: 135i brakes

The M3 brakes actually have more stopping power (duh) but thought this was still funny. People are talking about upgrading the M3 brakes to 135i brakes because they have 3 pistons:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho....php?p=3039154
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      02-28-2008, 08:46 AM   #2
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There's no reason for the M3 not to have proper brakes - take a look at the Brembos on the GTR sometime. They make the 135i's Brembos look like toys...
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      02-28-2008, 12:04 PM   #3
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Yeah I'm surprised they didn't bling out the M3 brakes more than they did - just boring single piston calipers on regular ol' rotors.
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      02-28-2008, 03:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
There's no reason for the M3 not to have proper brakes - take a look at the Brembos on the GTR sometime. They make the 135i's Brembos look like toys...
Although they're not fitted with decent pads, upping the number of pistons (besides normally netting you some added pedal feel) isn't necessarily increasing braking performance.

For all we know, the BMW single pots deliver more brake torque than the 6-pots, all its all piston area, no number thereof.
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      02-28-2008, 03:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Although they're not fitted with decent pads, upping the number of pistons (besides normally netting you some added pedal feel) isn't necessarily increasing braking performance.

For all we know, the BMW single pots deliver more brake torque than the 6-pots, all its all piston area, no number thereof.
exactly, I find it kind of hard to believe BMW would be stupid enough to put less powerful brakes on an ///M car.
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      02-28-2008, 03:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Although they're not fitted with decent pads, upping the number of pistons (besides normally netting you some added pedal feel) isn't necessarily increasing braking performance.

For all we know, the BMW single pots deliver more brake torque than the 6-pots, all its all piston area, no number thereof.
Yeah I'd rather have larger rotors over more pots any day of the week, but the M3 is a tank at 3704lbs compared to the 3373 of the 135 (331lb diff). The rotors are 14.2/13.8 on the m3 compared to 13.3/12.8 on the 135... diff of .9/1.0 inches.

weird that it is not clear that the marquee car that is the M3 has better brakes than the 1 series of all things.

In any event, ours look better and thats half the battle....
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      02-28-2008, 04:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW View Post
exactly, I find it kind of hard to believe BMW would be stupid enough to put less powerful breaks on an ///M car.
The amount of brake torque available is not the M3's problem. The Single-piston calipers are heavy and provide less feedback through the pedal, as well as wearing the pads less evenly.

The M3's rotors are not big enough to sink all the heat that can be generated by such a fast & heavy car. If you examine the GTR's brakes, you'll find that they have much more advanced Brembo multi-piston calipers, but they also have much bigger and more advanced rotors. They are 2-piece with an aluminum hat and separate huge floating iron rotor that dwarfs the M3's....
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      02-28-2008, 05:01 PM   #8
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Is it me or did BMW drop the ball on the new M3? It is a land yacht with a decent engine, OK brakes, and pretty good handling. It's not the amazing car the old 3s were. Maybe they've lost their touch and the era of the M3 is over.

Any hillbilly in a used corvette will smoke a new M3 around town. Sad state of affairs.
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      02-28-2008, 05:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW View Post
exactly, I find it kind of hard to believe BMW would be stupid enough to put less powerful brakes on an ///M car.
Read the first post...
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      02-28-2008, 05:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john970 View Post
Read the first post...
Duh. I feel like a retard now


I've never used this before, let alone on myself

I apologize...long day at work...
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      02-28-2008, 07:40 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john970 View Post
Yeah I'd rather have larger rotors over more pots any day of the week, but the M3 is a tank at 3704lbs compared to the 3373 of the 135 (331lb diff). The rotors are 14.2/13.8 on the m3 compared to 13.3/12.8 on the 135... diff of .9/1.0 inches.

weird that it is not clear that the marquee car that is the M3 has better brakes than the 1 series of all things.

In any event, ours look better and thats half the battle....

Did you look into the respective rotor thickness?

The 135's brakes aren't really all that hot when you look at how thin the rotors are...
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      02-28-2008, 11:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrematureApex View Post
Did you look into the respective rotor thickness?

The 135's brakes aren't really all that hot when you look at how thin the rotors are...
Exactly - they are not track ready, imho. Certainly not when driven hard with track tires and even less ready with the cheap power upgrades that will be commonly added.

Unfortunately, adding thicker (or larger diameter) rotors means replacing those fancy Brembo calipers.
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      02-29-2008, 09:59 AM   #13
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Better pads, fluid and stainless brake lines should alleviate all of the above mentioned problems with the 135's brakes. I'm sure a few easy changes to the 135's brakes will make a world of difference. Nate
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      02-29-2008, 10:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natedog_1959 View Post
Better pads, fluid and stainless brake lines should alleviate all of the above mentioned problems with the 135's brakes. I'm sure a few easy changes to the 135's brakes will make a world of difference. Nate
This is a common refrain. I personally don't believe it, but I'll be happy if proved wrong. I think your suggestions will be fine for aggressive street driving and even light track use, but hitting it hard on a track with track tires on a warm day (and a track which is demanding on brakes) will likely reveal the inadequacies of the rotors, imho...
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      02-29-2008, 12:53 PM   #15
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^^ I think you'll find that the combination of factors your listed would most likely kill the everyday cars break setup, Even a few that are considered track happy would suffer on such a demanding circuit.. etc etc..
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      02-29-2008, 02:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast kiwi View Post
^^ I think you'll find that the combination of factors your listed would most likely kill the everyday cars break setup, Even a few that are considered track happy would suffer on such a demanding circuit.. etc etc..
I agree. There are very few cars that are REALLY track-ready with respect to brakes (and I don't mean brake fluid and pads)...

Most Porsches are and the GTR seems to be, but there are many more that are not...
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      02-29-2008, 02:29 PM   #17
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Firstly, and this has been said before, I don't think anyone doubts that the M3 has better brakes than the 135, certainly in general and probably even when the extra weight of the car is taken into consideration.

The point of my original post is that to me, I expected the M3 to blow the 135 out of the water, and in reality you get an incremental performance boost (or where I live, no performance boost) for the extra cash. Also, the sentiment on the M3 boards is the same - they considered the fact that the 135 had better performance in some areas...

I've heard that replacing the brake pads makes a huge difference as street pads are designed not to squeal, which limits the compounds that can be used. I'm sure there are other factors and maybe someone who is more knowledgeable can comment on this.Several of the reviewers used track brakes.

I have no idea how thick the rotors are...
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      02-29-2008, 02:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john970 View Post
Firstly, and this has been said before, I don't think anyone doubts that the M3 has better brakes than the M3, certainly in general and probably even when the extra weight of the car is taken into consideration....
Sure, we can go with that:biggrin:
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      02-29-2008, 07:53 PM   #19
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Looking at the design of the underbody tray in the photos, as well as the front air intakes in lieu of foglights, and it may well be that BMW has designed adequate cooling ducts for the brakes. The only difference between a thick vented rotor and a thin one is the volume of air that moves through it. cooling ducts if they work right can move a lot more cool air across a hot disk than another 15cm cubed volume of air sucked through the vanes...

I'll reserve judgement until I've run through a few sets of Pagids.
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      02-29-2008, 10:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersatzS2 View Post
The only difference between a thick vented rotor and a thin one is the volume of air that moves through it.
This is very mistaken. The mass of the iron rotor is critical in determining the amount of heat that can be dissipated.
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      03-01-2008, 12:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AwesomeBMW View Post
Sure, we can go with that:biggrin:
I had to read that three times before i saw my error...
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      03-01-2008, 12:24 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
This is very mistaken. The mass of the iron rotor is critical in determining the amount of heat that can be dissipated.
+1, metal conducts heat way better than air does.

Are the rotors iron? seems like we could come up with something lighter than that...
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