BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

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      01-03-2008, 08:22 PM   #1
mkiiieustyle
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LSD......

since the 1'er will not come equiped with a mechanical Limited Slip Differential but instead sport a Electronic braking thing.....

i was wondering what would actaully happen when a actual Limited Slip Differential is added to the 1 series, would the factory electronic brake lock up actually mess up what the LSD is trying to do? :iono:
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      01-03-2008, 08:33 PM   #2
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I asked the same question a long time ago. Really nobody knows yet... it's possible there may be some interference between the electronic and mechanical systems, but possibly not...
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      01-03-2008, 09:21 PM   #3
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i'm hoping they don't i really want a "REAL" LSD on this car getting sideway's just isn't the same without one, it's the 1 thing i wished i had on my old 240....
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      01-04-2008, 04:52 AM   #4
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Don t judge to fast.

The ediff is not that bad try it first before you judge. Sideways action is possible.

I have already ask this question if the ediff can work together with mechanical one to drexler. If i get an answer you will see it here.
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      01-04-2008, 10:57 AM   #5
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Not the same I know, but I've fitted the Quaife ATB diff to replace the open diff in my 130i, and it works perfectly well with DSC. In fact, it basically gives the electronics a whole lot less to worry about as the diff provides more traction, so the DSC is a lot less intrusive.

The additional traction does highlight how the car is set up to understeer though.
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      01-04-2008, 05:20 PM   #6
mkiiieustyle
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well hopefully it's not going to be intrusive at all...... suspension will be set to give a little more oversteer but a diff would help out alot with traction and more oversteer.
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      01-05-2008, 03:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkiiieustyle View Post
well hopefully it's not going to be intrusive at all...... suspension will be set to give a little more oversteer but a diff would help out alot with traction and more oversteer.
With an open diff, runflat tyres and 265bhp the DSC was always on, even in dry conditions. More compliance in proper tyres helps a whole lot and the diff is the icing on the cake for me.
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      01-05-2008, 10:08 AM   #8
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that's cool mate, i guess i will wait 'n' see how they react, i just have alway's hated a ecm controlling stuff like this, the reason being is the ecm can turn it on or off when ever it chooses, while a mechanical is on until the power (your right foot) is taken away.
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      01-06-2008, 09:57 PM   #9
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No worries. There should be mechanical LSD's available from the aftermarket very shortly. This will be the first mod I do to my new 135. I had Jim Blanton build me a custom 3.46 mechanical LSD for my 330i zhp and it totally transformed the car. I see that he already has a solution for the 335i so I assume he will have one available for the 135i as soon as it is available. The unit he built for me is a joy to drive on the track, is silent and comes with a warranty. They are spendy but are "plug and play" and quality parts. Read about his 335i solution here:

www.performancegearing.com

P.S- BMW's electronic solutions turned themselves on much less after the diff install.
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      01-06-2008, 10:19 PM   #10
mkiiieustyle
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WOW nice to see some products like this, being a clutch type have you ever had to have it rebuilt?, i'm looking for a street/track use so it's going to be used pretty harshly and i don't want to have to replaced the clutchs every year/6months.

:biggrin:
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      01-08-2008, 10:25 PM   #11
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hey guys, i followed up on eurorcr's link and got some information from jim. here's the contents of his reply to my e-mail:

Quote:
So far, the 1 series has shared major drivetrain components with the 3
series. It is too early for technical data to be released to confirm,
but my guess is your 135i will use the same limited slip that I build
for 335i.
The Performance Gearing limited slip unit is based on the friction discs
(Salisbury) design and comes in
the following configuration:
- three proprietary, chromoly/ceramic coated friction discs
- three 4140 hardened disc plates
- asymmetrical ramp housings (30/90) for 1) an increase in dynamic (on
demand) lock rate during acceleration, but minimal dynamic lock during
deceleration to control rear wheel lockup
- static ( always "on") lock set to 40% , for maximum control of inside
tire wheel spin without generating additional understeer, dynamic lock
range of 40% to 100%.
The price for a new final drive converted to limited slip is $2950,
(with exchange of your original final drive), which includes ground
shipping cost of the LS unit and return core. This would be the complete
final drive ready to bolt into the car without modification. The limited
slip unit can be shipped first, installed when convenient and your stock
unit can be drained and shipped back in the same box.
There is a 3 year warranty on the limited slip unit, provided Redline
GL-5 lube is used.
thanks for your inquiry,
Jim Blanton
Performance Gearing
5026 Virginia Ave
Kansas City, MO 64110
USA
1-816-221-8584
if anyone else has any other information on competitive products, please post. i'm aware of the quaife diff and would love to get more info on this topic, especially from anyone that's done this mod to a 335.
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      01-08-2008, 10:43 PM   #12
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Jim Blanton has a great rep in the BMW world.
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      01-09-2008, 07:12 AM   #13
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As mentioned above I’ve had the Quaife ATB differential fitted to my 130i by Kevin Bird Garages in the UK with great success. Birds have worldwide exclusive distribution for Quaife BMW applications including 135i for US.

I’ve emailed Kevin about 135i and supply to North America and had the following response;

“There will be a Quaife solution. We're hoping to get our first car in a couple of weeks to determine which version is required. As indicated on the thread, there is currently no technical information on the construction of the diff outside of the BMW network. So we have to disect one to find out. It's likely to be similar to the late model E93 (335i convertible) model.

“There is practically zero likelihood of there being any interference with the DSC/traction systems. Many existing cars are fitted with this type of system, and no unwanted characteristic or interventions have been produced so far.

“I can't see any reference by BMW calling the 135i system an E-diff. As far as I'm aware, a true E-diff is like that installed on some Ferrari and Porsche cars that uses a servo to modulate the preload on a traditional clutched LSD. The 135 system is much simpler. If a wheel spins, the system applies the brake on the spinning wheel. Main reason why this is wrong, is it generates heat. That heat is taking power from the drive train, and you pay for it in terms of acceleration performance or fuel consumption. In truth, the effect on fuel consumption/acceleration might be too low to notice, but nevertheless, taking energy out of the sytem and throwing it into the air is definitely not an elegant solution (but it is cheap for BMW to install).

“All the BMW cars fitted with this type of system seem to go through rear pads at an alarming rate. Even the M6, with the M-diff doing most of the work, has been seen to kill its rear pads if driven very hard. I know of one M6 owner who claims he had his rear pads changed under warranty at 2,000 miles. He had been hammering the car at a circuit, and was very proud of his achievement!

“On the warranty issue, in the UK it's legally impossible to "void or invalidate warranty". The only way BMW can disclaim liability is if the customer has done something or installed something on the car that has caused a component to fail. They can't easily argue that a major component has failed because of something like a diff. Some Dealers, through ignorance of the facts, claim that warranty can be voided. Get them to put it in writing, and you get a different answer.


"All of the decent diff suppliers out there give warranties that are as good as, or even better than BMW. Quaife give a lifetime warranty on their device, and we add on 3 years labour and consequential damage.”

The 130i diff costs £829 GBP excluding taxes, delivery, duty & installation. Same price for the 335i. That's $1,635 USD today. It's not an exchange basis; I've retained my OEM diff to keep my options open for future cars although I'm unlikely to change any time soon except for a 135i.

The 335i details are all available now through the website www.birdsauto.com and any 135i enquiries can best be answered via the website's enquiry process.

Details of their 335i demo car are available here http://www.birdsauto.com/1-PDFs/E9209920100.pdf

Video of the 335i diff being given a proper workout by Chris Harris of Autocar magazine at a wet Chobham test track HERE :thumbup:

Edit - Letter ref BMW Warranty;

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      01-09-2008, 07:23 AM   #14
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Confusion and Rephlex - thanks to both of you for taking the time to investigate this and share the responses with us. Virtual beer for everyone!! ; -)

:drinking:
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      01-09-2008, 09:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atr_hugo View Post
Confusion and Rephlex - thanks to both of you for taking the time to investigate this and share the responses with us. Virtual beer for everyone!! ; -)

:drinking:

lol
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      01-09-2008, 05:38 PM   #16
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lol thaks for the info guy's 900quid is feckin sweet for a LSD........
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      01-09-2008, 10:53 PM   #17
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Excuse my retardedness but in daily use would one benefit from an LSD?? My current car is equipped with one but I dont think I'd be missing it. I'm a very aggressive driver but I've never felt that it has aided me. For now, I will be in no rush to spend 2k on an LSD. I'd rather spend that on some nice rims and a drop.
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      01-10-2008, 03:25 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
Excuse my retardedness but in daily use would one benefit from an LSD?? My current car is equipped with one but I dont think I'd be missing it. I'm a very aggressive driver but I've never felt that it has aided me. For now, I will be in no rush to spend 2k on an LSD. I'd rather spend that on some nice rims and a drop.
No need to be retarded and no-one's forcing you. My car had an open diff and so would just spin a wheel when it broke traction.

See how you get on with the OE diff. If you don't like the intrusiveness of the electronics (or turnover in rear pads) you will prefer the subtle mechanical intervention of an ATB diff.
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      01-19-2008, 05:00 PM   #19
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It is the first mod I'm doing. Not paying that much regardless. Nobody has a US exclusive either.
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      01-20-2008, 01:50 PM   #20
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I have the answer. A lsd wil work on een 135i with ediff. I have mine on order right now.

If youre not drifting a lot an Ediff is perfect for daily use and occasional trackday. The Ediff is much much better than an open diff.
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      01-20-2008, 10:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advevo View Post
I have the answer. A lsd wil work on een 135i with ediff. I have mine on order right now.

If youre not drifting a lot an Ediff is perfect for daily use and occasional trackday. The Ediff is much much better than an open diff.
Which one did you order? Thx
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      01-21-2008, 04:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onehots2k View Post
Excuse my retardedness but in daily use would one benefit from an LSD?? My current car is equipped with one but I dont think I'd be missing it. I'm a very aggressive driver but I've never felt that it has aided me. For now, I will be in no rush to spend 2k on an LSD. I'd rather spend that on some nice rims and a drop.
if you've ever pulled onto a busy road with fast moving traffic and had to accelerate hard wile turning on to that road your LSD helped you. or if you ever slid your car around a corner(with out losing control) wile fooling around your LSD helped you. and if you've ever drag raced anyone from a stop your LSD helped you. now if you lived somewhere with cold temps and bad weather it brings the advantage of an LSD to another level.
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