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      10-19-2007, 10:38 AM   #1
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Q ABOUT TORQUE

For all you techies out there, can you answer why torque is advantageous, in addition to HP?.....

The 300 Lb Ft of torque in the 135 seems impressive....how will that relate in a non-technical way to the driving feel I get from the car?.....

Thanks....
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      10-19-2007, 10:57 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO View Post
For all you techies out there, can you answer why torque is advantageous, in addition to HP?.....

The 300 Lb Ft of torque in the 135 seems impressive....how will that relate in a non-technical way to the driving feel I get from the car?.....

Thanks....


oh' boy!

This thread will open up alot of worms unless handled correctly. This is a very in-depth topic but many here will try to explain it in laymans terms.

Without getting to technical...



Torque is what you feel the car doing. The feeling you get when accelerating hard, the way the car feels like it pushing you forward, or pulling you forward as some might say.. A car with low-end Torque(low rpm's), will pull alot harder than a car that has very little torque.

Cars can be egnineered to have a small powerband (An engines rpm range), with alot of it's power in the low-end with alot of grunt.
-or-
Or with a much broader, longer, smooth, powerband that revs alot higher, meaning that even though they don't pull as hard, they have longer legs.

Balancing this in an engine design is tough.



The N54 (engine in the 135i) has the same amount of torque at 1,700rpm's as a 2006 Corvette..! Thats what makes this car, this ENGINE, so bad ass! That fact that it is an inline-6 that has high revs, and also offers prodigious amounts of low-end torque. :biggrin:


Hope that helps in someway... :drinking:







-Garrett
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      10-19-2007, 11:19 AM   #3
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A Mercedes Benz AMG engineer was once quoted as saying " People buy horsepower, but they like torque."

In the *simplest* terms, torque is what you feel pushing you into your seat.

In short, torque is good.
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      10-19-2007, 11:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THellURider View Post
In short, torque is good.

Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.

Torque is that awesome, HAND-OF-GOD shove-in-the-back that you get when you romp the throttle from a standstill. It's really a lot more fun in an AWD vehicle because you don't have to worry about wheelspin, but if you judiciously apply the throttle in a RWD car, it can be lots of fun too.
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      10-19-2007, 11:47 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THellURider View Post
A Mercedes Benz AMG engineer was once quoted as saying " People buy horsepower, but they like torque."

In the *simplest* terms, torque is what you feel pushing you into your seat.

In short, torque is good.


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      10-19-2007, 11:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THellURider View Post
A Mercedes Benz AMG engineer was once quoted as saying " People buy horsepower, but they like torque."

In the *simplest* terms, torque is what you feel pushing you into your seat.

In short, torque is good.
Yeah. That's the best way to put it... and why AMG Benz's are so popular as of late.

The actual amount of torque isn't necessarily as important as when and how in the rpm range the car makes it.
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      10-19-2007, 11:59 AM   #7
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Thanks all....I think I understand ....HP without Torque doesnt give you the feeling of power beginning in lower RPMs......I've driven my boss's S4, and my G somehow feels like a toy compared to it......i've also driven a later model vette....
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      10-19-2007, 12:00 PM   #8
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Read these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque#...wer_and_energy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horsepower
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      10-19-2007, 12:17 PM   #9
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Sorry for the thread jack here guys...but grant you've got to post pics of the 911. Please. Pretty please.
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      10-19-2007, 12:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TESLAASTRO View Post
Thanks all....I think I understand ....HP without Torque doesnt give you the feeling of power beginning in lower RPMs......I've driven my boss's S4, and my G somehow feels like a toy compared to it......

Hrmm, think of it this way, a big engine with alot of torque (Cobra/Vette) have alot of grunt...!

The smaller engine; ie: the new BMW M3 (4.0 liter) has the SAME horsepower as the big block Cobra/Vette, but alot less torque, but it makes up for it because the engine spreads it's power out over a greater distance... ie the fact that the new BMW redlines at 8,400rpms..!!

The Corvette's limit is 6,500rpms..! (SVT 6,200rpm's)

You feel the power of the Corvette more because it has more torque down low where you usually drive. High reving motors breath better and are more elastic and great for the track due to their ability to keep their torque and horsepower high in the revband for maintained peroids of time.

The difference is that you really need to "dig" into a higher-reving engine ,to get the rush...! It's intoxicating when you do though!






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      10-19-2007, 12:27 PM   #11
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Go drive a diesel with high torque number and see what we mean. Might not have the biggest HP but definitely feel the get up and go.
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      10-19-2007, 12:38 PM   #12
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I was driving around in my brothers car and it has 250lbs of torque and it feels nice. My car has 162lb's which is nothing. I call it the torqueless wonder. I think 250lb of torque is a very nice sweet spot for most cars. 300 is niiiiccce. Especially when it comes as low as 1400rpms. Jeebus.
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      10-19-2007, 01:20 PM   #13
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I don't want to start to big a thing here but i probably will. torque is a meaning less number. in all actuality the high torque number is just a more impressive way to just shows that there is a lot of low end power. here is some math to try to explain it better with out getting into the physics of things

HP=TQxRPM/5252

so torque will always be higher than HP below 5252 RPM and HP is always greater than TQ above 5252 RPM. and at 5252 rpm HP=TQ. in all reality TQ means nothing without RPM. so HP is really what counts. 300 lb ft torque at 4000 rpm sounds more impressive than 228hp at 4000rpm. but the HP is what counts.

edit: a good example is an F1 car putting out 900 hp at 19000 rpm is only putting out 250 lb-ft of torque at that rpm.
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      10-19-2007, 01:45 PM   #14
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TQ and RPM are measurable, HP is a calculated value.
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      10-19-2007, 01:55 PM   #15
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good stuff guys....much appreciated
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      10-19-2007, 01:59 PM   #16
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Torque is what you want in a street car.

Think of it this way, Torque measures force while Horsepower measures work. A very (very) broad analogy would be: Torque is how quick you can move, horsepower is how fast you can move.

Torque, powerband, and gearing are more important things to look at than peak horsepower, imho. Sadly, too many people just look at peak numbers when comparing cars.


Which would you rather have, a car with a meaty powerband lower in the RPMs or a car with a sharp spike in power way up in the RPM range? I don't spend much time above 4k on the street so a lower peaking engine is just fine for me.

Sorry if this wasn't very clear, it's kinda late for me.
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      10-19-2007, 02:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
The difference is that you really need to "dig" into a higher-reving engine ,to get the rush...! It's intoxicating when you do though!
-Garrett
Yes. In an E46 M3, you feel it about 4500 rpm...that's when it starts to press you back into your seat... and at 6500rpm oh man. 7500? Christ. It's heavenly. The new M3 will be the same way.
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      10-19-2007, 02:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
TQ and RPM are measurable, HP is a calculated value.
Exactly. Horsepower is the derived value, not Torque.
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      10-19-2007, 02:47 PM   #19
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you guys do not understand torque and HP. imagine this little guy weighs 250 lbs and is one ft from the post. if hes is moving and turning the post at 60rpm there is 250 ft lbs of torque there and 2.8 hp. think about how much force it would take to stop him by putting pressure on the post. now imagine he is moving around at 600 rpm there is still just 250 ft lbs of torque but 28hp. try to stop that post from spinning now. torque means nothing without RPM. HP is how much force is actually being produced. torque is really a miss used and miss understood measurement.
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      10-19-2007, 02:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWeber View Post
you guys do not understand torque and HP. imagine this little guy weighs 250 lbs and is one ft from the post. if hes is moving and turning the post at 60rpm there is 250 ft lbs of torque there and 2.8 hp. think about how much force it would take to stop him by putting pressure on the post. now imagine he is moving around at 600 rpm there is still just 250 ft lbs of torque but 28hp. try to stop that post from spinning now. torque means nothing without RPM. HP is how much force is actually being produced. torque is really a miss used and miss understood measurement.
Wrong.
Torque is force produced, Horsepower is work produced.
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      10-19-2007, 02:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zirrah View Post
Sorry for the thread jack here guys...but grant you've got to post pics of the 911. Please. Pretty please.
Twist my arm...
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      10-19-2007, 03:00 PM   #22
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SOMEONE STOP THIS THREAD BEFORE IT GETS OUT OF HAND
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