BMW 1 Series Coupe Forum / 1 Series Convertible Forum (1M / tii / 135i / 128i / Coupe / Cabrio / Hatchback) (BMW E82 E88 128i 130i 135i)
 





 

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-13-2007, 06:34 PM   #1
npd2983
Private
United_States
2
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: '10 128i MT; '09 335d
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, Ala.

iTrader: (0)

Coupe Economy and MPG

I am new, so please correct/respond kindly.

Very excited about the 2008 128i coupe. I have been holding on to a '97 328i for 10 years after owning an 85 325e. My 97 is at the upper size limit of a car that I need. I really miss the spirit of the '85. So I've been waiting for about 5 years for a smaller BMW non-roadster to hit the market. I'm optimistic the new 1 series will be both fuel efficient and a bit more nimble and sporty than my 3.

I'm also keenly interested in the mileage of the car. I noticed in the European 128i hatchback brochure that it gets 6 L/100 KM = 39 MPG hwy (extra urban) and 12.2 or 12.3 L/100KM (manual and automatic transmissions respectively) = 19 MPG city (urban). Is it safe to assume the 128i coupe, even though it is a different shape should get similar mpg? I'm not sure if it is the same engine.

According to another site, the 135i will get 30.7 MPG combined. Although the European 130i will have no stateside counterpart, it rates 34.0 MPG combined. I've noticed that if you compare engines within a BMW "series" there is usually not a large MPG difference. Sometimes the larger engine gets better MPG. Go figure...

I should have bookmarked the sites where I noted this information. The 128i hatchback numbers are definitely official, the others seemed to be confident statements given the figures to the 10ths decimal place, not estimates. Maybe we just have to wait for the official specs?

If the coupes get mileage numbers like this, I think a lot of environmentally conscience people will be able to have their "frosted mini-wheats." Fast on one side and economical on the other side. The MINI has some appeal in this regard, but slots in as an ultracompact car. I think the 128i & 135i will have a bit more appeal since they are larger than ultracompact. Tesla Roadster aside, if you look at fuel economy the MINI is currently the only sporty RWD car that posts fuel economy well into the 30's.

Regards
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2007, 06:40 PM   #2
128er
Captain
87
Rep
900
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Jul 2007

iTrader: (0)

yea...the 328i has the same engine the 128i will have so MPG should be similar...Let's say city:20-23 and highway:29-32
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2007, 06:58 PM   #3
Feli_330i
Private First Class
United_States
18
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: 18’ M2
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

[quote=npd2983;12781]\ the MINI is currently the only sporty RWD car quote]

The MINI is FWD.
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2007, 07:20 PM   #4
ducati
First Lieutenant
11
Rep
394
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2007

iTrader: (0)

Are you in the USA? If so, mileage numbers garnered from Europe aren't a 1:1.

1. US gallons are smaller than Imperial
2. extra-urban is steady state and always reads higher than US "highway" numbers.

Look to the US 3 series coupe for a better comparison.

Although I think the 1er will be sweet, it's not going to feel light and nimble like your E30 325. It's still a bit of a porker, as are almost all new cars. They're safer nowadays, tho, and have a lot more equipment... We pay for that in weight.

The 123d would be the "have your cake and eat it, too" option.
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2007, 07:22 PM   #5
vintage42
New Member
5
Rep
24
Posts

Drives: 1997 BMW Z3 1.9
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Louisville, KY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by npd2983 View Post
... The MINI... slots in as an ultracompact car. I think the 128i & 135i will have a bit more appeal since they are larger than ultracompact...
Will the 1-coupe really have much more room than the Mini? A friend has a Mini and although I find it hard to get into, it does have room for my 6'-2" and 200 lbs, but not touring room. Looking at the photos of the 1-series coupes, the driver's compartment looks similarly cramped. The footwell is narrow, the console is confining, and the headroom is not great. Will the 1-coupe be comfortable for a tall person?
PS - I owned two 2002s from 1972 to 1995 and they were roomy and airy. I would like to get back into a BMW.
Appreciate 0
      08-13-2007, 07:23 PM   #6
atr_hugo
No longer moderate
atr_hugo's Avatar
No_Country
325
Rep
4,401
Posts

Drives: '13 135i
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: -

iTrader: (0)

Probably less usable interior room int he 135 due to the north/south drivetrain layout.

Oh and, of course, NHTSA is already looking at the 128/135 - their website has info up - but not a lot of details. Look at the optional vs. std safety gear.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2007, 09:32 AM   #7
1050Wien
Private First Class
3
Rep
168
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Jul 2007

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 128i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducati View Post
Are you in the USA? If so, mileage numbers garnered from Europe aren't a 1:1.

1. US gallons are smaller than Imperial
2. extra-urban is steady state and always reads higher than US "highway" numbers.

Look to the US 3 series coupe for a better comparison.

Although I think the 1er will be sweet, it's not going to feel light and nimble like your E30 325. It's still a bit of a porker, as are almost all new cars. They're safer nowadays, tho, and have a lot more equipment... We pay for that in weight.

The 123d would be the "have your cake and eat it, too" option.
Hey ducati - where in Ohio are you? I am a fellow Ohio-an and also a Ducati enthusiast.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2007, 12:09 PM   #8
ducati
First Lieutenant
11
Rep
394
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2007

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1050Wien View Post
Hey ducati - where in Ohio are you? I am a fellow Ohio-an and also a Ducati enthusiast.
Columbus. Sadly, I don't own a Desmo at the moment... Although Ducks are my first love, I now ride a Bimmer

I do miss the duc sound!!

On MPG note, I've been reading about the 123d... Man, I really wish this were coming to the USA. I'd be all over it.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2007, 02:20 PM   #9
ibeam81
Captain
United_States
20
Rep
722
Posts

Drives: 2016 EBII M235i, 2004 Acura TL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germantown, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducati View Post
On MPG note, I've been reading about the 123d... Man, I really wish this were coming to the USA. I'd be all over it.
A 123d M Sport would be great!

BMW has stated that diesels are coming, but they with be in the X5 first. There have been some guestimates that 1er diesels will show up in 2009 or 2010, but nothing official yet.

Maybe we should start a petition listing prospective 123d buyers and send it to BMW.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2007, 02:23 PM   #10
mikeo
Santa Fe Concorso
mikeo's Avatar
United_States
103
Rep
2,984
Posts

Drives: '11 M-sport 328i, '13 X1 28i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Santa Fe, NM

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibeam81 View Post
A 123d M Sport would be great!
... Maybe we should start a petition listing prospective 123d buyers and send it to BMW.
Good idea!
__________________
Santa Fe Concorso - The Southwest's Premier Automotive Gathering.
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2007, 02:36 PM   #11
aesthetect
form follows function
aesthetect's Avatar
United_States
38
Rep
838
Posts

Drives: GC impreza
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: austin tx

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by npd2983 View Post
If the coupes get mileage numbers like this, I think a lot of environmentally conscience people will be able to have their "frosted mini-wheats." Fast on one side and economical on the other side. The MINI has some appeal in this regard, but slots in as an ultracompact car. I think the 128i & 135i will have a bit more appeal since they are larger than ultracompact. Tesla Roadster aside, if you look at fuel economy the MINI is currently the only sporty RWD car that posts fuel economy well into the 30's.

Regards

for economy numbers look at the 3 series and maybe a bit better for somewhat less weight. this is exactly why i am so excited about the 1 series. it offers the perfect size that allows for some practicality in seating, a fun drivetrain layout and small enough to be efficient. im also glad that the car entering this segment is a BMW as the dynamics are surely as superb as could be designed with respect to necessary compromises.
i would really like to drive a 123d for comparison before buying, because if its anything like i think it will be that thing would be a blast, and so so efficient..

that being said im sure the 1 series will be the last to receive a diesel powerplant. unfortunately it makes sense for automakers to get their heavy gas guzzlers to get a slightly better fuel economy (even though the people buying in this segment dont give a shit) rather than the people who really care to get a car with actually notable efficiency. although i guess thats not fair, if i had a family to tote around i would really be wanting a diesel X5. actually, no, no i wouldnt. thats why i like the 1 and not a roadsters :smile:
Appreciate 0
      08-14-2007, 09:58 PM   #12
amdmaxx
My gift Registry: M2
amdmaxx's Avatar
United_States
118
Rep
1,432
Posts

Drives: Future Mowner of Monster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

I am down for diesel (123 sport), but I think VW TDI GT will be here way sooner than BMW...55-60 mpg, small and sporty.. Perfect commuter car..
Appreciate 0
      08-15-2007, 12:33 AM   #13
Nixon
Banned
57
Rep
1,396
Posts

Drives: :
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: :

iTrader: (0)

A stock 123d would be an almost direct comparison to your 1997 328i in performance, horsepower, weight, and 0-60 times. They are both right around 200 hp, 3150 lbs empty, and both take about 7 seconds to hit 60 mph. The 123d would just do it with 6 speeds, 2 doors, 17" wheels, and approx. 45 mpg from a dual turbo diesel.

I suspect that an M-sport package with 18" wheels and chipping the engine would give you better handling and better acceleration than your 328i while still giving you approx 45 mpg.

The Honda and Toyota hybrids have proven that there is a strong new market in the US for approx 45 mpg high fuel economy cars priced in the low to mid 20 thousand dollar range. (Real world gas mileage numbers for hybrids are coming in at about the same 45 mpg that a 123d gets.) They have sold over 1 million hybrids and sales are still growing. It isn't that far of a jump to the mid to upper 20k range to get a high fuel economy car with excellent performance with all the benefits of a BMW. I think there is a huge untapped market out there for the 123d. Unfortunately BMW is going to waste their time with diesels in all the wrong models instead. The 5-series and X-series SUV's aren't anywhere near that 1 million+ unit market niche where Honda and Toyota have ruled for the last 5 years.
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 01:15 PM   #14
Spoonie
Private
7
Rep
68
Posts

Drives: '08 Mitsubishi Lancer EVO X MR
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rockland County, New Yorl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
The Honda and Toyota hybrids have proven that there is a strong new market in the US for approx 45 mpg high fuel economy cars priced in the low to mid 20 thousand dollar range.
You realize that Honda is discontinuing sales of the Accord Hybrid because of slow-sales?
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 04:04 PM   #15
ibeam81
Captain
United_States
20
Rep
722
Posts

Drives: 2016 EBII M235i, 2004 Acura TL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germantown, MD

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoonie View Post
You realize that Honda is discontinuing sales of the Accord Hybrid because of slow-sales?
True, but the Accord Hybrid was optimized for performance instead of fuel economy. Sales of the Civic Hybrid are still strong and Honda has plans to introduce a diesel. So yes a market has been identified and Honda (along with others) is going after it. I believe that there is a viable market for the 123d in the US, but BMW is taking the safer approach of outfitting existing models (the X5) with a diesel first. If the 128i and 135i are successful then I think that BMW will be more inclined to add a diesel to the 1er line-up.
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 05:05 PM   #16
Nixon
Banned
57
Rep
1,396
Posts

Drives: :
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: :

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoonie View Post
You realize that Honda is discontinuing sales of the Accord Hybrid because of slow-sales?
The Accord Hybrid isn't part of the low-mid 20k, 45 mpg (real world) market that is booming. Neither is the Chevy Silverado Hybrid, even though it is also technically a hybrid. It most closely matches the 328i in acceleration, price, size, and fuel economy.

The Accord Hybrid is in the mid-30k, low 30's mpg (real world) market. They made it a "Performance Hybrid" with 0-60 in the 6.7 second range, and didn't give it the kind of fuel economy that is needed to compete in the high mileage niche. In fact, many 4-cyl Accord non-Hybrid owners report better real world observed mpg's than V-6 Accord Hybrid owners. It is dying because Honda completely missed the market niche, so it deserves to die. All cars with the hybrid label cannot all be lumped together. Some are good, some are crap. The crappy ones will die, while the best hybrids have sold a million+ units.

I'm worried that BMW will screw up their introduction of their diesels the same way Honda blew the Accord Hybrid. A heavy but fast 50k dollar diesel 5-series that gets only 35 mpg is going to have to create a whole new market niche for itself. The X-series diesels face the same problem, magnified by the problem of a shrinking US SUV market. They can't leverage an existing booming market niche. I'm afraid if they hit the diesel market wrong and fail, then they will never bring in the 123d. If Honda would have started off with the Accord Hybrid and tanked, I'm not sure they would have then gone and built the highly successful Civic Hybrid. Your comment about the Accord Hybrid actually reinforces my points in my original post...
Appreciate 0
      08-16-2007, 05:08 PM   #17
Spoonie
Private
7
Rep
68
Posts

Drives: '08 Mitsubishi Lancer EVO X MR
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Rockland County, New Yorl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibeam81 View Post
True, but the Accord Hybrid was optimized for performance instead of fuel economy.
Looks like I'll be looking for a used Accord Hybrid as a second car. Should be able to get them for a steal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibeam81 View Post
Sales of the Civic Hybrid are still strong and Honda has plans to introduce a diesel. So yes a market has been identified and Honda (along with others) is going after it. I believe that there is a viable market for the 123d in the US, but BMW is taking the safer approach of outfitting existing models (the X5) with a diesel first. If the 128i and 135i are successful then I think that BMW will be more inclined to add a diesel to the 1er line-up.
I'm all for diesels in the good ol' USA
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2007, 12:06 AM   #18
menotakoala
Future Owner
menotakoala's Avatar
United_States
21
Rep
161
Posts

Drives: Civic Si Sedan
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Fullerton, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixon View Post
I'm worried that BMW will screw up their introduction of their diesels the same way Honda blew the Accord Hybrid. A heavy but fast 50k dollar diesel 5-series that gets only 35 mpg is going to have to create a whole new market niche for itself. The X-series diesels face the same problem, magnified by the problem of a shrinking US SUV market. They can't leverage an existing booming market niche. I'm afraid if they hit the diesel market wrong and fail, then they will never bring in the 123d.
I believe that the diesel niche will soon see a high demand as more and more fuel efficient diesels come out and the price of petrol increases. There is a reason as to why so many cars in Europe are running on diesel and that is because there is a high demand for these engines which give great fuel economy.

Honda did a testing of their diesel engines in their Honda Accords in Europe and managed to pull off 92.3 MPG (Imperial Gallons). I don't think that hybrids will be able to come near that. And if more and more diesel engines were able to pull such great figures as this, then I don't see any reason why the diesel variants would suffer.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by I Vtec, do you? from 8thCivic
I bought a 197 HP car and if I shifted it at 4k like you want me to I'd be driving a car that made 100 HP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honda Motor Co.
Dear Joe, unfortunately, our service technicians were unable to reproduce the problem that you mentioned. Therefore, we will be unable to perform any work that you claim is necessary. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2007, 03:39 AM   #19
Victor.L3IchibanM3
Banned
United_States
260
Rep
373
Posts

Drives: '06 325i,'04 RX 330,'99Corolla
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose

iTrader: (0)

Do you guys think that 128i will get 10-15 overall mpg more than the 135i since that's wat my friend said so Im just wondering :iono:
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2007, 05:44 AM   #20
ducati
First Lieutenant
11
Rep
394
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Aug 2007

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor.l3ichiban View Post
Do you guys think that 128i will get 10-15 overall mpg more than the 135i since that's wat my friend said so Im just wondering :iono:
Not a chance. I expect highway mpg to be similar between the two, and the 128 will be rated a little (2-3mpg) better in the "city."

In the real world, the 135 will suffer if you are on boost a lot, and should deliver somewhere around 23 or 24mpg average. The 128 should average around 26 or 27, I'd bet, with a mix of city and highway.

I base these numbers on the 328 and 335's that we recently drove on the roads we normally drive (a mix).
Appreciate 0
      08-17-2007, 05:47 AM   #21
mikeo
Santa Fe Concorso
mikeo's Avatar
United_States
103
Rep
2,984
Posts

Drives: '11 M-sport 328i, '13 X1 28i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Santa Fe, NM

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor.l3ichiban View Post
Do you guys think that 128i will get 10-15 overall mpg more than the 135i since that's wat my friend said so Im just wondering :iono:
No way. Maybe 5 mpg advantage.

menotakoala,
IIRC, the EU governments have $ incentives for diesel fuel over petrol. Regrettably, not so here in the good 'ol U.S. of A.
__________________
Santa Fe Concorso - The Southwest's Premier Automotive Gathering.
Appreciate 0
      08-21-2007, 11:24 PM   #22
npd2983
Private
United_States
2
Rep
96
Posts

Drives: '10 128i MT; '09 335d
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Birmingham, Ala.

iTrader: (0)

A conservative 128i MPG Estimate

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I found the following while surfing the net (paraphrased). It echoes some earlier comments in the forum.

"The 128i will have the same engine that gets 21 and 30 mpg in the manual transmission version of the 328i .... it will probably get 22/32 mpg, minimum."

I am hoping it is a little bit better with the smaller size of the car and the benefit of the on-demand engine coolant pumps that improve fuel economy.

Other cars mentioned in the thread include:

The Acura TSX sporty sedan w/ 205 hp and 22/31 mpg
and
Honda Civic SI sedan w/ 197 hp and 22/32 mpg

But of course the TSX and Civics are FWD, not RWD and do not have the luxury-oriented options the 128i will have or offer as add ons.

Cheers!
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:05 AM.




1addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST