[jenwithapen]

Hi all, I'm Jen.

I'm the owner, or *was* of a certified pre-owned 2013 Hyundai Genesis Grand Touring with all the "sport"-y bells & whistles. I got her with just over 6,000 miles on the odi, passing all inspections, with a bunch of other "packages" for $15k in 2013. Before buying her, I'd researched everything I could and thought I was getting a pretty great deal. It turned out that the dealer lied to me about it being a "certified" pre-owned (it had passed the dealership's inspection, but... I mean!), and I didn't learn that fact until minutes after signing the paperwork!.

I share this because despite doing everything I thought necessary (I have to do these things alone. My family died when I was young, so I don't have a mom or dad to ask, and my husband, at that time, knew even less than I did!). I thought I'd done my due diligence, yet still I got duped. [Though, turned out I had the Genesis (and loved her!) until she met her terrible end when we got t-boned by a drunk driver this summer. The fact was, though, I didn't have a bit of trouble with her or the local dealership before the accident, so I considered myself lucky! But, I also promised myself I'd reach out to people who knew better in the future. So, here I am, hat in hand. ]

I have the chance to buy a Pre-Owned 2016 BMW 4 Series 428i xDrive, just a smidge over 40k on the odo, in beautiful condition (aside from some slight hail damage on the driver side door). There was a hail storm a week ago that caused considerable body damage that they had to fix. From everything I've been able to research, it's got a fairly clean past. A small fender bender (literally, they had a bit of fender damage that they fixed) in 2017, but other than that, no major accidents.

She's had 2 owners, personal use, no corporate or rental use. For the options on it, and the price the dealership is selling it ($21,800 right now, but I'm talking with them today, gonna see what they'll take off, add to the pot, etc. to make the deal complete), but aside from some very minor damage inside, the car drove great (we went on every kind of terrain currently available to me), she had almost everything I'd gone looking for initially from the Genesis, but actually felt better, glided instead of uber-gripped the road, and felt genuinely great.

Then, I came home, and the only folks I know who have any experience with BMW at all (and this was in a lease situation once and a current owner, now) was scared sh+tless by both with all the, "You have no idea what you're getting yourself into." "This is a really bad idea." "These cars drive like ice skates in bad weather and you're from Central Illinois!" "You're going to pay triple or quadruple what you'd pay for, like, a Chevy for every bit of service you do on that vehicle," etc., etc., etc.

I did my best to research, AGAIN, and it kinda looks like they might be right. Half of what I read says it's going to be okay. Half of what I read says even a fuel change will cost me twice (if not more) what I'm used to. So!

I come to you good people for some help. I'm trying not to be TLDR, but give enough information so you know where I'm at. As a new divorcee, responsible now for her own $$, and her own choices, I really want (NEED) to make smart ones. Based on what I've shared and the link to the car the dealership is selling, if I can get them to give me or reboot the factory warranties, take about a thousand or maybe 1500 off the listed price, and tell them I'll only buy if I can have my own mechanic go through it and sign off on the purchase, do you think it's a good pick? Or is it too big a risk?

https://www.napletonshyundaiofurbana...562ff6c2d2.htm

Thank you SO much to anyone who takes the time to read and consider. It's been a pretty seriously hardcore terrible year (for a lot of us!) and I'm just hoping that moving forward I can make the kind of life I always wanted it to be. Thanks for your time & thoughts! - Jen

[Sorry! I should also mention that Google reviews of this dealer initially made me think they were great! But Yelp reviews, yoi! It's a whole new district in Crazytown Bananapants! I think that's what makes me *MOST* nervous. If I'm going to rely on these local yay-whoos, but they're totally untrustworthy, would you let your daughter make this buy? Thanks again!]

[Boostedphil698]

Originally Posted by jenwithapen

Hi all, I'm Jen.

I'm the owner, or *was* of a certified pre-owned 2013 Hyundai Genesis Grand Touring with all the "sport"-y bells & whistles. I got her with just over 6,000 miles on the odi, passing all inspections, with a bunch of other "packages" for $15k in 2013. Before buying her, I'd researched everything I could and thought I was getting a pretty great deal. It turned out that the dealer lied to me about it being a "certified" pre-owned (it had passed the dealership's inspection, but... I mean!), and I didn't learn that fact until minutes after signing the paperwork!.

I share this because despite doing everything I thought necessary (I have to do these things alone. My family died when I was young, so I don't have a mom or dad to ask, and my husband, at that time, knew even less than I did!). I thought I'd done my due diligence, yet still I got duped. [Though, turned out I had the Genesis (and loved her!) until she met her terrible end when we got t-boned by a drunk driver this summer. The fact was, though, I didn't have a bit of trouble with her or the local dealership before the accident, so I considered myself lucky! But, I also promised myself I'd reach out to people who knew better in the future. So, here I am, hat in hand. ]

I have the chance to buy a Pre-Owned 2016 BMW 4 Series 428i xDrive, just a smidge over 40k on the odo, in beautiful condition (aside from some slight hail damage on the driver side door). There was a hail storm a week ago that caused considerable body damage that they had to fix. From everything I've been [...]

First question is, do you want a BMW? They're great cars but do come with their issues. The 428i that has the N20/N26 motor is known for bad timing chain guides which requires replacement of the chain ans guides. It's an expensive job but if you are aware of this and have no issue fixing it, then the car is pretty reliable. You'll have to prepare to fix oil leaks every now and then but nothing huge. If stepped up to a 435i, you would eliminate the timing chain issue.

[tturedraider]

Welcome to the forum. I’m glad you posted. My advice is to pass on this one. There’s nothing particularly compelling about this car, other than maybe the mileage and the price if it is what is within your budget. What is your budget?

Right off the bat I have a problem with a car that had hail damage and the dealer didn’t repair all of it. Given your description of your lack of car experience I would absolutely want a body shop to look at it. There is no “rebooting” of the factory warranty. That is gone for good. They, of course, would be more than happy to sell you an expensive aftermarket warranty.

I would advise you to move to looking at 2017 430i’s rather than 428s. The motor in the 428 has a history of issues with the timing chain and for someone not particularly familiar with cars I think this risk would be too great for you. The 430 has a completely different motor and it is markedly better.

Given your life circumstances I would also recommend either a 330i sedan or a four door 430i Gran Coupe that has a very useful hatchback.

Sorry to rain on your parade. Good luck. Do come back when you have other candidates.

If you can find a private party deal Illinois has a very favorable sales tax structure for private party deals that would be less than half of what you would pay buying from a dealer.

One other thing about coming here is we will probably think of things to check on and know about that would never cross your mind.

[tturedraider]

I didn’t find any private party listings. This is just one of many. It is at a dealership that provides a 5yr/100k mile powertrain warranty. It is much better equipped than the one you are looking at for not much more money. There are numerous others I just haven’t looked at yet.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing
edit: a little more about this car. It has the Head Up Display, which displays your speed and other information, such as the speed limit, onto the windshield right in front of your eyes. You will love that!! It has side and top view cameras, which help with parking. Particularly parallel parking. But also they help you avoid pulling up too far and damaging the front bumper. It also has heated rear seats, which is a nice feature to have.


Here’s one at Perillo BMW here in downtown Chicago. Perillo has a reputation for high prices, but I think this one is actually priced fairly reasonably. The benefit of buying from a BMW dealer is that you know trained BMW technicians have inspected the car and BMW dealers are less likely to sell a BMW that isn’t in good shape. This one isn’t as well equipped as the other one and because of that I would have an inclination toward the well equipped Gran Coupe. I’m sharing this because of the interior color. It’s something different and I thought you might like it. Of course, this car is a little less expensive, too.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

[tturedraider]

If you could have a fair amount of flexibility in your budget there is a forum member who lives in the Chicago suburbs who may want to sell his car. It’s a 2018 440i Gran Coupe M Sport xDrive. It has about 30,000 miles and it has CPO warranty until July 2025. It would be in the mid-$30 thousands. He is super meticulous about his cars. It would be a private party sale, so you’d save a fair amount on the sales tax.

The 440i has the B58 inline six motor. The inline six design is the best engine design there is. Period! It makes 320 horsepower. The B58 has proven to be a very reliable motor. The 430i has the B46/48 four cylinder motor which has also proven to be a very reliable motor. It makes 255 horsepower.

It is Carbon Black, which is kind of a super dark blue/black.

[tturedraider]

.

[tturedraider]

,

[Billfitz]

Unless you're an enthusiast BMW probably isn't the best choice as a daily drive. It's not that they're any less reliable than brands other than perhaps Toyota and Lexus, but they do require a level of care that means either having at least basic DIY repair skills or deeper than average pockets to afford having others do it for you. If you're an enthusiast it really is the ultimate driving machine...if you can't afford a Porsche.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Unless you're an enthusiast BMW probably isn't the best choice as a daily drive. It's not that they're any less reliable than brands other than perhaps Toyota and Lexus, but they do require a level of care that means either having at least basic DIY repair skills or deeper than average pockets to afford having others do it for you. If you're an enthusiast it really is the ultimate driving machine...if you can't afford a Porsche.

While that’s not necessarily untrue all of us here know there are only a tiny fraction of BMW owners who are truly enthusiasts. It certainly is true that a BMW owner needs to be aware of the increased maintenance requirements and be willing to keep up with them. But, these days even those are relatively minor up to about 100k miles.

She had a Genesis previously, so she’s obviously more enthusiastic than a Toyota owner.

[Billfitz]

No doubt, most BMW owners bought for the perceived cachet. I will admit that the prestige factor entered into my decision, but I could have bought a Merc or Lexus or a half dozen others in the same price range. I settled on the BMW because of all the choices available it was the best driving experience.

[zrekt]

Originally Posted by Boostedphil698

First question is, do you want a BMW? They're great cars but do come with their issues. The 428i that has the N20/N26 motor is known for bad timing chain guides which requires replacement of the chain ans guides. It's an expensive job but if you are aware of this and have no issue fixing it, then the car is pretty reliable. You'll have to prepare to fix oil leaks every now and then but nothing huge. If stepped up to a 435i, you would eliminate the timing chain issue.

Did BMW not fix the N20 issues after 2015? I've been researching the N20 a little and most of the articles say to just avoid pre-2015 N20s, but the timing chain guide was fixed after 2015. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

No doubt, most BMW owners bought for the perceived cachet. I will admit that the prestige factor entered into my decision, but I could have bought a Merc or Lexus or a half dozen others in the same price range. I settled on the BMW because of all the choices available it was the best driving experience.

Same here! There’s no denying the BMW brand has a certain cachet with the general public. Truly without fail when I mention to someone I drive a BMW I get some kind of “ooh” and “ah” reaction. Their immediate thought seems to go to the high end reputation rather than that they actually have a superior driving experience.

[tturedraider]

I’m curious to see what Jen is going to think about all these ideas here. She hasn’t been back on the forum since she posted this morning.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by zrekt

Did BMW not fix the N20 issues after 2015? I've been researching the N20 a little and most of the articles say to just avoid pre-2015 N20s, but the timing chain guide was fixed after 2015. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

You are correct……for the most part. And I must admit I didn’t fully think about the car being considered is a 2016. I guess I’m just such a fan of the B46/48 that my thoughts immediately go there. There have been some reports here on the forum of folks who have “post fix” N20s who have had the timing chain issues.

I have to say though, if I could afford the Gran Coupe that’s the one I would choose. It is equipped so much better and it has the new motor. And it has so much more utility.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by jenwithapen

Hi all, I'm Jen.

I'm the owner, or *was* of a certified pre-owned 2013 Hyundai Genesis Grand Touring with all the "sport"-y bells & whistles. I got her with just over 6,000 miles on the odi, passing all inspections, with a bunch of other "packages" for $15k in 2013. Before buying her, I'd researched everything I could and thought I was getting a pretty great deal. It turned out that the dealer lied to me about it being a "certified" pre-owned (it had passed the dealership's inspection, but... I mean!), and I didn't learn that fact until minutes after signing the paperwork!.

I share this because despite doing everything I thought necessary (I have to do these things alone. My family died when I was young, so I don't have a mom or dad to ask, and my husband, at that time, knew even less than I did!). I thought I'd done my due diligence, yet still I got duped. [Though, turned out I had the Genesis (and loved her!) until she met her terrible end when we got t-boned by a drunk driver this summer. The fact was, though, I didn't have a bit of trouble with her or the local dealership before the accident, so I considered myself lucky! But, I also promised myself I'd reach out to people who knew better in the future. So, here I am, hat in hand. ]

I have the chance to buy a Pre-Owned 2016 BMW 4 Series 428i xDrive, just a smidge over 40k on the odo, in beautiful condition (aside from some slight hail damage on the driver side door). There was a hail storm a week ago that caused considerable body damage that they had to fix. From everything I've been [...]

To add what others have said

German cars are less tolerant of deferred maintenance. Parts and labor are expensive due to the "luxury" marketing.

I would pass on this car.

[leathers]

Originally Posted by zrekt

Did BMW not fix the N20 issues after 2015? I've been researching the N20 a little and most of the articles say to just avoid pre-2015 N20s, but the timing chain guide was fixed after 2015. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Yes, you are correct. Later N20's have been proven to be as reliable as the B48. If you find a 2016 that checks all the boxes I'd go for it. Personally, I'd pass on this coupe if the hail damage is noticeable.

[tturedraider]

Here’s one more that could be a good one to consider. It just came off of being a CPO not long ago. https://www.lexusofarlington.com/use...f28570ac3d.htm

[jenwithapen]

Wow, you guys!! Wow!

So, you know how you sometimes rely (maybe in my situation a little *too* much) on the check box that says, "Hey, email me if anyone responds to my post"? Well! Here I was relying on that and until this last post of 'raider's, I hadn't gotten any of those emails saying, "Hey, someone cared!" and yet here they all are. I kinda thought maybe I'd just posted way too much to read or I'd sounded like a silly groupie, just here for the cache of it! ;D I truly appreciate the time ya'll took to respond!

So, here's what's happened since we last spoke! I'd talked to the dealership Was able to point to every bit of damage that I could see visibly and just held firm to the idea that -- in my head -- the car was a decent value at $19,9. I told them I'd forgive the hail damage on the door (and this one spot inside where it looks like someone's cigarette got outta hand) if they wanted to meet me there. Then I gave them two more conditions. I said I'd be fine at that price if they'd reboot the warranties for me (for at least 2 more years) and that I could take it for a inspection at the local BMW dealer. They said they couldn't do the warranties (somewhere between $4500-$7500 they just couldn't shell out), but that the buyer's inspection was fine.

At the local BMW dealership, they said they'd go through the entire thing, give me a report on everything including parts/labor/all issues/etc. for $280. I figured it'd be a small price to pay.

What I should have done (if I wasn't doing 30,000 other things) was come back here, first, just to check for myself that there weren't any repies. Because.. dun dun dun.... ya'll were very very right.

So, the report from the BMW dealer came back and here's where she failed:

1) BMW says Standard Scope I Vehicle due for standard scope service ($79) - no big deal, was happy to pay for that myself as standard maintenance.

2) BMW says it's 4789 miles past due for oil change ($107.95) - again, considered it maintenance and was fine paying for it myself. [*To note, though, they told me this had already been completed on the car at the Napelton's location.]

3) BMW says it's due for a brake fluid change ($192.00) - wasn't thrilled about it, but second (third!) verse, same as the first! Was okay to take the hit personally [*Will, again, note that I was told this was already done as part of their "inspection" at Napelton's]

4) BMW says it failed battery energy diagnosis (current battery date is 2015) and in urgent need of replacement ($428). Okay, now this one... nah. And just like the two I've already mentioned, they swore they'd already fixed this. So, the guy at BMW in the Service department said that because Napelton's couldn't actually do their *own* service on the BMWs, they'd farmed it out to the BMW dealership (the same one doing the diagnostic, today, and so they found the guys who did the work. What happened was that they came to them telling them it had dash light problems with the battery and needed them to figure out what the issue was. BMW recommended replacing the battery/batteries (apparently some of them can have more than one?) and Napelton's kindly disagreed and walked away! So the service was *NEVER* done. They said it was (I record all my phone calls and have the audio where the sales guy says it), but it wasn't).

5) BMW says brake disc/pads/sensor replacement (front 1) front pads, rotors, and sensors are at 3mm. Rotors have excessive rust buildup and new front brakes are required ($560). The guy at the BMW dealership said when it came to this one and the next one, he'd make them fix both of these in full. He said I wouldn't be down the road very far before the brake light would come on and I'd be on the hook for another $600 or so!

6) BMW says the suspension control arm - replace 1 front thrust arms w/ bushings, hardware, and axle bolts. Front thrusts arm are warn, bushings are leaking, with excessive rust. New front thrust arms are needed ($1068). Again, Matt @ BMW said within a few miles I'd experience all kinds of problems from squeaking to grinding to car leaking fluid all over, etc. He said it could lead to other costly fixes, so for sure to have them take care of that.

7) BMW says with all considerations to this point, it'd also needs realignment, front/back with tire rebalance ($480).

8)BMW made note of "excessive" damage to drivers door and said repair was recommended (and where in the light of day you could only really see one "ding", with the picture they took as part of their report, it almost looked like someone had taken an aluminum baseball bat to it and went "dent-dent-dent-dent-dent" to it. About the size of a quarter to a dime.

They were at 19.8 if I wanted it pre-inspection, but after reading your really amazing notes, I see that I'd really gone thru all this hoopla for pretty much nothing. After I drove the car around from place to place to place today, I could tell that a smoker had actually smoked in it for quite some time, and the back of the driver's seat, by the end of one hot day spent running, kept pinching me!

All in all, a whole lotta suck!

I have to say I wasn't interested in the car for the BMW name (though, it was kinda neat the idea of moving from what _I_ considered sporty to a luxury car). And, again, I know this is going to show naivety on my part, but my Genesis had an engine that just... I loved it. I didn't always love the way it gripped. It drove tight. But the engine. That engine in Texas between Austin and San Antonio, driving 85-90, late at night, with that moonroof open and the Leonids falling! Shoot! =D

I'm sure there are much more interesting engines out there (and yeah, I'd budgeted $30k to just pay flat out cash to get something sporty and interesting), but there was also something alluring in the smooth glide of the 428 when I first drove it.

You guys gave me such great insight and so much food for thought. I think it might have been 'raider who'd wondered what I'd thought (having not been back since I posted) and this was my final impression -- what a great group of people to take their time out for a complete stranger, to help make sure she didn't get something that might either be problematic or just... lackluster? and, instead, got something that would meet her needs in the future.

I thank everyone who took the time. Wishing you well. - Jen

[Billfitz]

IMO if you're not buying new buy one that came off lease being sold as a certified used. You avoid the first year or two of high depreciation, you know what the service record is, and get the warranty.

[RobotDoctor]

If you continue looking at a BMW consider the B58 platform. As tturedraider stated “the inline six design is the best engine design there is. Period! It makes 320 horsepower. The B58 has proven to be a very reliable motor.” I own a 2019 440i Gran Coupe and absolutely love my car. My previous car was a 2012 Volvo S60 T5 and was kept up immaculately. It was totaled in NOLA in early March by a group of young boys who hit me then drove off (with a blown driver’s side front tire). That said I knew I’d get an F36 and found mine in the Pacific Northwest. If a person comes in knowing service for a BMW will undoubtedly be more than a Toyota, Honda or even a Volvo then it’s definitely worth the investment.

Best of luck in your quest.

[tturedraider]

Jen, I just sent you a PM. btw, you would LOVE the B58 inline six motor in the 440i Gran Coupe!!!

[jenwithapen]

After I sell this first book (and the movie to Netflix)! ;D Then it's B58s for everyone! "And you get a B58, and you get a B58." ;D