Aftermarket tuning options currently available for N54 turbo engine

[Harold]

- Procede

- AA Xede

- Turbo Tuner


It might be premature to discuss tuning of the 135i engine, but it should still be fun to hear from anyone who knows the merits of each of these.

[ender]

I'm a BMW newbie so please don't be too harsh on my dumb question; is the 135i motor, N54, the same motor that's in the 335i?

[imported_tdc]

Originally Posted by ender

I'm a BMW newbie so please don't be too harsh on my dumb question; is the 135i motor, N54, the same motor that's in the 335i?

One and the same.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by Harold

- Procede

- AA Xede

- Turbo Tuner


It might be premature to discuss tuning of the 135i engine, but it should still be fun to hear from anyone who knows the merits of each of these.

All 3 of these get a lot of play from the 335 crowd--the one you hear about the most is the Procede--which runs about $1300.

I'm not sure how much the AA Xede is, or the Turbo tuner, but they also have many people using them. If I remember correctly, the Turbo Tuner is a true plug and play--where the Xede and Procede require some mapping.

There are endless threads on this on www.E90post.com in the FI area. There is enough there to keep you reading for hours--fun reading now that we know the N54 is coming. :biggrin:

[ender]

Originally Posted by tdc

One and the same.

Cool, thanks boss!

[atr_hugo]

BTW, a quick set of calculations hint that with a 3.5 final drive ratio the 135i (with a stock 300 HP N54B30) should be under 4.8 seconds 0 - 60mph. With a Stage 1 PROcede and the same final drive ratio that 0 - 60 time may come close to 4.1 or so. If the final drive ratio is over 3.5 (say a nice 3.73) then the 0 - 60 number goes down. Those calculations assume an 'offical' weight of 3300 lbs.

I would not be surprised if, eventually, someone with a PROcede equipped 135i turns a sub-4 second 0 - 60 time.

Should a Vishnu tuned 135i be called a 135iv? ; -)

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

BTW, a quick set of calculations hint that with a 3.5 final drive ratio the 135i (with a stock 300 HP N54B30) should be under 4.8 seconds 0 - 60mph. With a Stage 1 PROcede and the same final drive ratio that 0 - 60 time may come close to 4.1 or so. If the final drive ratio is over 3.5 (say a nice 3.73) then the 0 - 60 number goes down. Those calculations assume an 'offical' weight of 3300 lbs.

I would not be surprised if, eventually, someone with a PROcede equipped 135i turns a sub-4 second 0 - 60 time.

Should a Vishnu tuned 135i be called a 135iv? ; -)

I was thinking it would be around 4 sec. with a V2 Procede...that's 911 territory, right? :biggrin:

This whole 135 idea is already pissing off the 335 owners...kinda funny to me....

[amdmaxx]

Traction comes in play.. with only 245 in the back, I dont see sub 4 second car.. I see mad burn-outs in place though.. Also, no LSD..

Originally Posted by atr_hugo

BTW, a quick set of calculations hint that with a 3.5 final drive ratio the 135i (with a stock 300 HP N54B30) should be under 4.8 seconds 0 - 60mph. With a Stage 1 PROcede and the same final drive ratio that 0 - 60 time may come close to 4.1 or so. If the final drive ratio is over 3.5 (say a nice 3.73) then the 0 - 60 number goes down. Those calculations assume an 'offical' weight of 3300 lbs.

I would not be surprised if, eventually, someone with a PROcede equipped 135i turns a sub-4 second 0 - 60 time.

Should a Vishnu tuned 135i be called a 135iv? ; -)

[atr_hugo]

Originally Posted by amdmaxx

Traction comes in play.. with only 245 in the back, I dont see sub 4 second car.. I see mad burn-outs in place though.. Also, no LSD..

On a related note - Karl Ludvigsen has an article on variable valve trains in the latest "Winding Road". He quotes a Chrysler engineer about why they opted to not include variable valve timing on the inlet lobes as well as the exhaust on the new Viper. The engineer said, ". . . it would only translate to more tire smoke."

What's the downside? ; -)

[mikeo]

Do we know yet what the final drive ratio will be?

[bats]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I was thinking it would be around 4 sec. with a V2 Procede...that's 911 territory, right? :biggrin:

This whole 135 idea is already pissing off the 335 owners...kinda funny to me....

hahaha..and it would be the day BMW releases the 0 series.

035i > 135i > 335i > 535i.

lol. I still like the shaping and size of the 335i. They shouldn't feel too bad. It will be a great car, even after the 135i makes its mark.

[335i=:)]

Riss racing DP is adding 25whp. Spearco FMIC is adding 25whp.

FMIC plus TBE plus Procede v2=400+whp

[chemhalo]

Thats a BIG stretch to say that any FMIC adds 25whp. Unless the car has just an absolutely inept intercooler, like the stock one on my Jetta, you will see little to no gain in HP. What is more likely is that after a hard running, you have kept 25whp with an upgraded FMIC that the stock one lost from heat soak.

[335i=:)]

Originally Posted by chemhalo

Thats a BIG stretch to say that any FMIC adds 25whp. Unless the car has just an absolutely inept intercooler, like the stock one on my Jetta, you will see little to no gain in HP. What is more likely is that after a hard running, you have kept 25whp with an upgraded FMIC that the stock one lost from heat soak.

You may be correct. However I am quoting the manufacturer's posted dyno figures on e90post.com.

And the max gain was at 6k as well.

Excuse me, I just double check the dyno again, it was a gain of 14.38 whp at 6krpm.

But the Down pipe added 26whp overstock without a tune. When you push higher boost levels, the Dp will add even more power, and the catback's have been adding about 10-15whp. I think with a tune, which I'm sure we will have shortly, a turbo back exhaust with FMIC should add 60whp. I'll bet we will break 400whp with Procede v2, TBE, and FMIC, and tune.

[coolbluelb]

Originally Posted by chemhalo

Thats a BIG stretch to say that any FMIC adds 25whp. Unless the car has just an absolutely inept intercooler, like the stock one on my Jetta, you will see little to no gain in HP. What is more likely is that after a hard running, you have kept 25whp with an upgraded FMIC that the stock one lost from heat soak.

What he said... large intercoolers help avoid heat soak, but don't provide significant HP gains unless your stock intercooler has flow issues (usually not a problem unless you have already upgraded the turbo).

Originally Posted by 335ito135i

But the Down pipe added 26whp overstock without a tune. When you push higher boost levels, the Dp will add even more power, and the catback's have been adding about 10-15whp. I think with a tune, which I'm sure we will have shortly, a turbo back exhaust with FMIC should add 60whp. I'll bet we will break 400whp with Procede v2, TBE, and FMIC, and tune.

DP, catback and a tune will certainly provide you more significant gains than a larger intercooler. 60-70 whp is almost exactly what I gained on my car from the same. I would not be suprised if the 135i/335i does somewhat better.

[chemhalo]

Departing from currently available for a moment.....

Evoms needs to make a V-Flow for the 335/135 http://www.evoms.com/marketplace/vie...0-0FDC07600E4B}

EDIT: Looks like they definitely will make one http://www.vfengineering.com/kit_bmw_E92335T.php I will take the Stage 2 with a side of fries please.


Additionally, it would be cool for someone to make a titanium catback. Save a few lbs for alot more money, but the extra cost might not bother some BMW owners.

I have no clue how the piping is on the 335, but there will probably be aftermarket hard pipe/silicone kits to replace plastic/rubber ones.

The last think I can think of would be a phenolic spacer to further keep intake temps down as seen here http://www.evolutiontuning.com/evoheatshield.html

[jaybert]

is it possible/beneficial to get a custom tune (not even sure if its possible on the N54 engine or not), as in strap the car on the dyno, and have someone make a map specifically for your car.

I come from the Subaru world, where there are a bunch of off the shelf products that will show gains, but to get the most out of your car, its necessary to get either dyno tuned or road tuned. Is that because of a limitation of Subaru's ECU? Or would the N54 benefit from getting custom tuned if it is available?

[chemhalo]

Originally Posted by jaybert

is it possible/beneficial to get a custom tune (not even sure if its possible on the N54 engine or not), as in strap the car on the dyno, and have someone make a map specifically for your car.

I come from the Subaru world, where there are a bunch of off the shelf products that will show gains, but to get the most out of your car, its necessary to get either dyno tuned or road tuned. Is that because of a limitation of Subaru's ECU? Or would the N54 benefit from getting custom tuned if it is available?

As far as I know right now, none of the tuning companies offer custom tuning. (Please, anyone correct me if Im wrong on that). I have no doubt that it would be possible and beneficial to do so. If you have added an intake/exhaust/intercooler, a custom tune could better take advantage of those things.

Also, I *think* all of the tuning companies use piggy back systems right now to hide what is really going on to the ECU. I know GIAC plans on releasing software and will probably be in the form of an ECU remapping (if the BMW ECU allows it). This still wont be a custom map, but there may be things in the ECU you can tweak to make it a bit more custom.

[335i=:)]

Originally Posted by chemhalo

As far as I know right now, none of the tuning companies offer custom tuning. (Please, anyone correct me if Im wrong on that). I have no doubt that it would be possible and beneficial to do so. If you have added an intake/exhaust/intercooler, a custom tune could better take advantage of those things.

Also, I *think* all of the tuning companies use piggy back systems right now to hide what is really going on to the ECU. I know GIAC plans on releasing software and will probably be in the form of an ECU remapping (if the BMW ECU allows it). This still wont be a custom map, but there may be things in the ECU you can tweak to make it a bit more custom.

I know Vishnu (procede) offers a custom tune for $ and you have to go to San Francisco (danville). Personally I wouldn't trust anyone with tuning who hasn't already tuned the n54 hundreds of times.

I know vishnu has a stock exhaust and a cat-back exhaust map currently. I believe as the demand grows (TBE are just coming out now so are fmic's) he will have maps for at least common setup's, such as a TBE/procede v2 map, or TBE/v2/fmic. The other tuners (AA) in the game I'm sure will do the same. Personally I would like to see 400whp and 380 wt without upgrading the turbo's.

[larryn]

Sorry in advance, not trying to be a hater. Please don't take it that way.

Anybody that's done fairly extensive mods knows that each individual stated hp improvement for each item added does not just keep on adding together. For instance, if you added an intake (claimed 10 whp), and an exhaust (claimed 10 whp), and a chip (claimed 10 whp), they don't add up to 30 additional whp. Each individual item may eek some wheel hp in areas the other mod is also using for their hp gains.

I have no doubt that Shiv's V2 will make these cars a beast though, adn more and more tuners will come into the frey as more forced induction models are rolled out by BMW.

Regarding that diff too, depending on the gearing of the tranny (I'm guess most will have manual transmissions here), going higher than 3.46:1 might make 1st gear useless, and really effect your top speed. My S52 powered 318ti used to have a 3.45:1 diff, which made 80mph cruising a (fairly loud) 4000 rpm affair in top gear. I changed to a 3.25:1 LSD which brought it down by nearly 1000rpm, to just over 3000 rpm for the same 80mph speed.

So, in short, if you go with a 3.73:1 diff (or higher), the gears will likely be shorter than you could shift in, at WOT, and you'd greatly limit your top speed and highway cruisability. Sure, you'd have a faster 0-60, but who cares about that? You'd be shifting into 3rd at ~48mph at redline, where stock would be closer to 65mph, if they geared it the same as the 335i (Manual tranny).

[mikeo]

I think most people would probably retain stock gearing if they go to an aftermarket LSD. I know I would.

[335i=:)]

Shiv's V2 on 93 octane with CB exhaust dynoes 376whp. With FMIC and Downpipes, (have you looked at the stock dp's?) we will be close to 400whp.

I understand what you saying about diminishing returns when adding extra's. But it seems as if with some things the gains would be bigger then stock gains would be by adding only one mod. For example, stock boost is 8.5 lbs. With procede it's 13lbs. More boost=more exhaust=more backpressure=less HP. It seems like adding a full TBE (turbo back exhaust) to a 13 psi car would add more whp then to a 8.5 psi car, no? If a dp adds 26whp to a 8.5 psi car maybe it would add 30+ to a 13psi car?

Same thing with a FMIC, it a 13 psi car has more hp then the 8.5 psi car, it should generate more heat, maybe a fmic would give a bigger gain?

I'm not as sure about he FMIC, but I'd love to know why a 13psi car would benefit less from a freer flowing exhaust then a 8.5 psi car, all other variables remaining the same.