How do you know its time to replace Wastegates??

Panoz · 01-05-2009, 05:17 AM

Is there a chance that wastegates start failing but without making rattling noises??
Do anyone knows if the PdeReader could give me clues of how efficient my wastegates are, through datalogging ?

S4to335 · 01-05-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panoz

Is there a chance that wastegates start failing but without making rattling noises??
Do anyone knows if the PdeReader could give me clues of how efficient my wastegates are, through datalogging ?

I dunno..but mine rattled like hell. The dealer tech made the decision.

e92phreak · 01-05-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S4to335

I dunno..but mine rattled like hell. The dealer tech made the decision.

Made the decision to replace?

stressdoc · 01-05-2009, 12:49 PM

Mine rattle and the dealer decided to replace. Will be done next week.

S4to335 · 01-05-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e92phreak

Made the decision to replace?

Yep...I dont have wastegate rattle any more.

vase330 · 01-05-2009, 01:04 PM

How is the rough idle (carbon issue) holding up? Do you think your tune contributed to it at all?

M3EST · 01-05-2009, 03:22 PM

Guys you did not answer the question.I think Panoz means that if anybody see apart the rattling any performance drop. By the way my car has started rattling long time now and the last days i started feeling a lag growing under 3000rpm.Anybody else to see such symptoms?

F104 · 01-05-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panoz

Is there a chance that wastegates start failing but without making rattling noises??
Do anyone knows if the PdeReader could give me clues of how efficient my wastegates are, through datalogging ?

I'm no expert but waste gate technology is not exactly high tech. It is a dead simple vacuum operated valve. Should last forever. I can not see how it could even rattle, even if it had excessive play on the linkage. Exhaust gas pressure would force it open against the linkage free play. Just my 2ct's worth,

S4to335 · 01-06-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vase330

How is the rough idle (carbon issue) holding up? Do you think your tune contributed to it at all?

TJ: rough idle/misfire is gone...they cleaned the carbon buildup off...replaced the remaining injectors..and plugs...So, I got six new injectors..two coilpacks...six new plugs...and the carbon removed...and the car runs fine. I dont think the tune had anything to do with it...I had these symptoms BEFORE I had a Dinan download.

McLuVan · 01-06-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F104

I'm no expert but waste gate technology is not exactly high tech. It is a dead simple vacuum operated valve. Should last forever. I can not see how it could even rattle, even if it had excessive play on the linkage. Exhaust gas pressure would force it open against the linkage free play. Just my 2ct's worth,

Kerosene Hat · 01-06-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F104

I'm no expert but waste gate technology is not exactly high tech. It is a dead simple vacuum operated valve. Should last forever. I can not see how it could even rattle, even if it had excessive play on the linkage. Exhaust gas pressure would force it open against the linkage free play. Just my 2ct's worth,

Find Mr 5's posts on the matter. It happens. It's real. And it really sucks when it's happening to your vehicle.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176269

As for other quesions in this thread, I feel a loss of low-end snap myself - and have had the rattle for 8 months now. Between the intolerable rattle and a (at least perceived) loss of 'go', I'd say it's time for mine to be replaced.

Planning on addressing w/ dealer and seeing if a sw update solves it - or if they have to go for a turbo replacement.

And I'm bone-freaking stock, too.

$0.02, the knowledge-sharing on the WG issue has been very beneficial to me - even if it only turns out to be in a therapeutic context.

BMdblU · 01-06-2009, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S4to335

TJ: rough idle/misfire is gone...they cleaned the carbon buildup off...replaced the remaining injectors..and plugs...So, I got six new injectors..two coilpacks...six new plugs...and the carbon removed...and the car runs fine. I dont think the tune had anything to do with it...I had these symptoms BEFORE I had a Dinan download.

Interesting.. As much as I love my V3, my rattle started 2 days after I installed the tune.

Dan335i · 01-06-2009, 11:58 PM

Does the rattle happen when the car is at idle,or when going into boost while getting on the car.(revving it out)?

jerrybajwa · 01-07-2009, 12:43 AM

mines getting replaced as we speak along with a new window motor, 32.1 software and break pads lol

Will@WSTO · 01-07-2009, 12:00 PM

Hay guys its Will from WheelSTO! I actually worked at a BMW dealership as a tech and we have seen a lot of problems with the waste gates rattling. In most cases a puma case will be submitted and puma will give the go ahead to replace the waste gates! We were replacing them more and more as the days went on. If they need to be replaced this is a dealer only issue, because there is a special BMW calibration box needed! All waste gates that are replaced need to be calibrated to a certain spec before they are replaced. Hope I was some help. If I can help in anyway just let me know.

-Will-

Mr. 5 · 01-07-2009, 01:00 PM

It's becoming a pet peeve.

The wastegates will never get replaced unless you get a new set of turbos!

The actuators will be replaced but the wastegates will be the same.
There is nothing wrong with the wastegates.
The actuators are not pulling the wastegates closed all the way, which is making the wastegates rattling against the seal.

Again, actuators are being replaced, not wastegates.

stressdoc · 01-07-2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan335i

Does the rattle happen when the car is at idle,or when going into boost while getting on the car.(revving it out)?

There are excellent videos documenting the wastegate rattle. It is very easy to detect. Park car next to a concrete wall for acoustic bounce. Open passenger window. Rev car up to about 3k, let off gas, listen to the BZZZZZzzzzz as rpms drop. You can also easily hear it in a quiet parking garage as you descend, whenever you let off the gas you will hear the bzzz. You can also hear it with the hood open. This is useful for testing whether both banks are problematic. You can visually inspect the actuator rod and see an indentation. You can feel the indentation by running your finger along the actuator rod. Don't try this with a hot engine though.

Tuned335i · 01-07-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

It's becoming a pet peeve.

The wastegates will never get replaced unless you get a new set of turbos!

The actuators will be replaced but the wastegates will be the same.
There is nothing wrong with the wastegates.
The actuators are not pulling the wastegates closed all the way, which is making the wastegates rattling against the seal.

Again, actuators are being replaced, not wastegates.

THANK YOU!!!!!

The wastegate is a permanent part of the turbo assembly and cannot be removed. I'm not sure where anyone got the idea that the actual wastegate (the valve attached to the shaft which exits the turbo housing and is attached to the actuator rod and vacuum controller) was somehow replaced without replacing the entire turbo assembly.

Maestro · 01-07-2009, 03:39 PM

Mine are being replace as we of right now. Took some convincing since mine was not that bad and did not happen all the time. Thanks to Mr. 5 description I was able to convince them to replace them and not do the software upgrade. I think I am the first one at my dealer getting it done since they did not appear to be aware there was an issue. base on their comments to me, I under the impression the entire turbos are being replaced on mine since the said they had to order turbos and and it took a week for them to come in.

Tuned335i · 01-07-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

base on their comments to me, I under the impression the entire turbos are being replaced on mine since the said they had to order turbos and and it took a week for them to come in.

Right, because it's impossible to replace just the wastegates. Congrats on the new turbos! Take care of them!!!

That's quite a job. I'd stop by the dealership and try to convince them to let me check out the work in process!

Mr. 5 · 01-07-2009, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro

Mine are being replace as we of right now. Took some convincing since mine was not that bad and did not happen all the time. Thanks to Mr. 5 description I was able to convince them to replace them and not do the software upgrade. I think I am the first one at my dealer getting it done since they did not appear to be aware there was an issue. base on their comments to me, I under the impression the entire turbos are being replaced on mine since the said they had to order turbos and and it took a week for them to come in.

I'll bet you that they are replacing the actuators and not the entire turbos because it also takes a couple weeks for the actuators to come in.
It's really amazing what the dealer will say when they actually mean something else. Either that, or they are just clueless.
It's most likely the ladder.

F104 · 01-07-2009, 05:04 PM

[QUOTE=Kerosene Hat;3907652]Find Mr 5's posts on the matter. It happens. It's real. And it really sucks when it's happening to your vehicle.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176269

As for other quesions in this thread, I feel a loss of low-end snap myself - and have had the rattle for 8 months now. Between the intolerable rattle and a (at least perceived) loss of 'go', I'd say it's time for mine to be replaced.

Planning on addressing w/ dealer and seeing if a sw update solves it - or if they have to go for a turbo replacement.

And I'm bone-freaking stock, too.

Ok thanks for the link. This just interests me. So if the rear waste gate is being (or should be) closed at relative low revs that means the rear turbo is the smaller one (picture confirms that), and thus should get the exhaust gasses to give the improved 335i response.
Also the set up shows it is indeed vacuum operated rather then on boost pressure

To me it looks like the (vacuum) actuator is undersized to keep the valve closed. What I don't understand at all is the post 29X? software fix. By keeping this valve open (as stated, and even if only for a while to build vaccum) you'll have less low rpm response

And by the way waste gates are in principle serviceable, it is just used very, very rarely. The pictures cleary show you can take it off. But one needs to have a gauge, or jig, to set the proper actuator arm length (eg lock nut adjustment).

01-05-2009, 05:17 AM	#1
Panoz Lieutenant Colonel 84 Rep 1,575 Posts Drives: E92 Space Grey 335i ,Aero Kit Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: EU iTrader: (0)	How do you know its time to replace Wastegates?? Is there a chance that wastegates start failing but without making rattling noises?? Do anyone knows if the PdeReader could give me clues of how efficient my wastegates are, through datalogging ? __________________ Procede V4 , Catless DPs, Forge FMIC, Injen Intake, VK Oilcooler, Hartge Quads Exhaust, Modded CDV, Synapse BOV Kit, BMW Performance 335i SSK Kit, P3 vent boost gauge Space Grey 335i -> See more pics HERE Last edited by Panoz; 01-05-2009 at 06:37 AM.. Reason: adding more questions
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01-05-2009, 12:49 PM	#4
stressdoc Moderator 618 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	Mine rattle and the dealer decided to replace. Will be done next week. __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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01-05-2009, 01:04 PM	#6
vase330 Colonel 102 Rep 2,760 Posts Drives: 19 E63S; 15.5 RangeRover ATB Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arlington, Va iTrader: (1)	How is the rough idle (carbon issue) holding up? Do you think your tune contributed to it at all? __________________ E92 335 \| Space Gray \| Saddle Brown Dakota \| Dark Burl Trim \| ZPP \| ZSP \| AT \| Idrive \| 6FL \| FBO \| Dinan CAI \| Quaife LSD \| STG3 PROCede.
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01-05-2009, 03:22 PM	#7
M3EST Rear wheel drive fanatic 53 Rep 604 Posts Drives: M3 E30-1M-M4 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Greece & Germany iTrader: (1) Garage List 1987 BMW M3 [0.00] 2011 BMW 1M [10.00]	Guys you did not answer the question.I think Panoz means that if anybody see apart the rattling any performance drop. By the way my car has started rattling long time now and the last days i started feeling a lag growing under 3000rpm.Anybody else to see such symptoms?
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01-06-2009, 11:58 PM	#13
Dan335i Lieutenant Colonel 32 Rep 1,786 Posts Drives: 07 335i coupe 6MT,w/sp. pack. Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: orange county NY iTrader: (2)	Does the rattle happen when the car is at idle,or when going into boost while getting on the car.(revving it out)?
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01-07-2009, 12:43 AM	#14
jerrybajwa Lieutenant 34 Rep 458 Posts Drives: AW/FR '11 e92 M3 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Socal iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 335i coupe [0.00]	mines getting replaced as we speak along with a new window motor, 32.1 software and break pads lol __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 335i-SL55-M3!!!!!!!!
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01-07-2009, 12:00 PM	#15
Will@WSTO Private 0 Rep 81 Posts Drives: 135I Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Evanston iTrader: (0)	Hay guys its Will from WheelSTO! I actually worked at a BMW dealership as a tech and we have seen a lot of problems with the waste gates rattling. In most cases a puma case will be submitted and puma will give the go ahead to replace the waste gates! We were replacing them more and more as the days went on. If they need to be replaced this is a dealer only issue, because there is a special BMW calibration box needed! All waste gates that are replaced need to be calibrated to a certain spec before they are replaced. Hope I was some help. If I can help in anyway just let me know. -Will-
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01-07-2009, 01:00 PM	#16
Mr. 5 Modder Raider 755 Rep 8,633 Posts Drives: M3 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Surf City, HB iTrader: (31) Garage List 2007 e90 335i [8.00]	It's becoming a pet peeve. The wastegates will never get replaced unless you get a new set of turbos! The actuators will be replaced but the wastegates will be the same. There is nothing wrong with the wastegates. The actuators are not pulling the wastegates closed all the way, which is making the wastegates rattling against the seal. Again, actuators are being replaced, not wastegates. __________________ e36 M3 Coupe, e36 325i Sedan e90 335i--SOLD Best 60-130-------------9.15 Seconds------------------WWW.MR5RACING.COM
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01-07-2009, 03:39 PM	#19
Maestro Major 1013 Rep 1,268 Posts Drives: 2007 335i Sedan, 2021 X3 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Philadelphia iTrader: (0)	Mine are being replace as we of right now. Took some convincing since mine was not that bad and did not happen all the time. Thanks to Mr. 5 description I was able to convince them to replace them and not do the software upgrade. I think I am the first one at my dealer getting it done since they did not appear to be aware there was an issue. base on their comments to me, I under the impression the entire turbos are being replaced on mine since the said they had to order turbos and and it took a week for them to come in.
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01-07-2009, 05:04 PM	#22
F104 Captain 19 Rep 732 Posts Drives: E92 320D M-sport Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: belgium iTrader: (0)	[QUOTE=Kerosene Hat;3907652]Find Mr 5's posts on the matter. It happens. It's real. And it really sucks when it's happening to your vehicle. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176269 As for other quesions in this thread, I feel a loss of low-end snap myself - and have had the rattle for 8 months now. Between the intolerable rattle and a (at least perceived) loss of 'go', I'd say it's time for mine to be replaced. Planning on addressing w/ dealer and seeing if a sw update solves it - or if they have to go for a turbo replacement. And I'm bone-freaking stock, too. Ok thanks for the link. This just interests me. So if the rear waste gate is being (or should be) closed at relative low revs that means the rear turbo is the smaller one (picture confirms that), and thus should get the exhaust gasses to give the improved 335i response. Also the set up shows it is indeed vacuum operated rather then on boost pressure To me it looks like the (vacuum) actuator is undersized to keep the valve closed. What I don't understand at all is the post 29X? software fix. By keeping this valve open (as stated, and even if only for a while to build vaccum) you'll have less low rpm response And by the way waste gates are in principle serviceable, it is just used very, very rarely. The pictures cleary show you can take it off. But one needs to have a gauge, or jig, to set the proper actuator arm length (eg lock nut adjustment).
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