[BMW DRIVEN]

This mod surprised me. I should have done the inlet pipe sooner

[designatedposter]

i felt no such improvements on m235i 6mt. i am on stock intake, stock filter (new), and the cts turbo version of the inlet. i would not do this mod again, it was a pain in the ass, and i broke the original on it's way out.

the BIGGEST improvement to throttle response is when i reset adaptations in bm3... did you perhaps do that or flash a new tune? (new tune automatically resets adaptations)

also, you won't get to 20-21 psi on stock HPFP, even if it is pump gas (no ethanol). you should do HPFP, then turn up the boost. i am currently running the bm3 stg2+ tune at ~20psi.

[714BMW]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

i felt no such improvements on m235i 6mt. i am on stock intake, stock filter (new), and the cts turbo version of the inlet. i would not do this mod again, it was a pain in the ass, and i broke the original on it's way out.

the BIGGEST improvement to throttle response is when i reset adaptations in bm3... did you perhaps do that or flash a new tune? (new tune automatically resets adaptations)

also, you won't get to 20-21 psi on stock HPFP, even if it is pump gas (no ethanol). you should do HPFP, then turn up the boost. i am currently running the bm3 stg2+ tune at ~20psi.

Going to have the mostly agree here as I also did a CTS turbo inlet on my 6MT 235. My WGDC didn't drop at all in my logs and there was no sound difference however it did feel like I had to press less of the gas to go faster which was nice. Pain in the ass to do for sure but at least glad to know stock one isn't still in there and could possibly break.

+1 on the HPFP as you'll feel much more top end pull as your fuel won't be dipping/crashing as you run the revs up. On e mixes, or full E85 in my case, very noticeably improved mid range torque as well as power towards redline and it keeps pulling hard until about 6.2k RPM's on stock turbo. Pretty pricey but worth it 100% and you'll even feel a good improvement on just pump gas. Running 20-20.5 psi currently with a DS2 and full E85.

[n55david]

Despite what paper say here, I noticed 0 gains with the inlet and I wouldn't do it again unless I was doing the turbo at the same time.

[AmuroRay]

If you’re running the stock intake and filter, that would probably be the reason why you haven’t noticed anything. Even the stock airbox with a drop in is trash compared to an open intake and/or an M2 airbox

After I did my inlet, I immediately noticed more top end power. I think I recorded about 15whp difference per VD
As far as the intake goes - I switched back to the Stock airbox and AFE (from the M2 airbox and AFE) and power, lag and response was so bad, I had to drive in SPORT to have the same throttle and feel that I did with the M2 airbox in Comforter.

TD;DR inlet works - works better if you’re running something better than the stock airbox.

[714BMW]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

If you’re running the stock intake and filter, that would probably be the reason why you haven’t noticed anything. Even the stock airbox with a drop in is trash compared to an open intake and/or an M2 airbox

After I did my inlet, I immediately noticed more top end power. I think I recorded about 15whp difference per VD
As far as the intake goes - I switched back to the Stock airbox and AFE (from the M2 airbox and AFE) and power, lag and response was so bad, I had to drive in SPORT to have the same throttle and feel that I did with the M2 airbox in Comforter.

TD;DR inlet works - works better if you’re running something better than the stock airbox.

Ahhh interesting. I'm running stock intake and AFE drop-in so maybe that could be it.

[BMW DRIVEN]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

i felt no such improvements on m235i 6mt. i am on stock intake, stock filter (new), and the cts turbo version of the inlet. i would not do this mod again, it was a pain in the ass, and i broke the original on it's way out.

the BIGGEST improvement to throttle response is when i reset adaptations in bm3... did you perhaps do that or flash a new tune? (new tune automatically resets adaptations)

also, you won't get to 20-21 psi on stock HPFP, even if it is pump gas (no ethanol). you should do HPFP, then turn up the boost. i am currently running the bm3 stg2+ tune at ~20psi.

Time to upgrade the intake system my friend. I think you will notice. Yes, huge pain in the ass that's why I just paid a mechanic. They broke my stock piece uninstalling too.

Yes, adaptations were reset to get rid of a shadow code after installing the inlet. Same tune Stage 2 E30.

Yeah, stock hpfp won't get me the max out the stock turbo. Currently, researching if I should go Dorch Stage 1 or 2 Pump. What pump did you go with? No ethanol?

Originally Posted by 714BMW

Going to have the mostly agree here as I also did a CTS turbo inlet on my 6MT 235. My WGDC didn't drop at all in my logs and there was no sound difference however it did feel like I had to press less of the gas to go faster which was nice. Pain in the ass to do for sure but at least glad to know stock one isn't still in there and could possibly break.

Yeah, I need to get in some proper logs that go over 6000rpms where the wgdc would act up. I want to see if the inlet would have any effect on the wgdc and clean up my logs up top.

+1 on the HPFP as you'll feel much more top end pull as your fuel won't be dipping/crashing as you run the revs up. On e mixes, or full E85 in my case, very noticeably improved mid range torque as well as power towards redline and it keeps pulling hard until about 6.2k RPM's on stock turbo. Pretty pricey but worth it 100% and you'll even feel a good improvement on just pump gas. Running 20-20.5 psi currently with a DS2 and full E85.

Full E-85 with Dorch Stage 2 and stock lpfp? Who is your tuner?

Originally Posted by n55david

Despite what paper say here, I noticed 0 gains with the inlet and I wouldn't do it again unless I was doing the turbo at the same time.

Did you hit the dyno to compare stock to upgraded pipe?

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

If you’re running the stock intake and filter, that would probably be the reason why you haven’t noticed anything. Even the stock airbox with a drop in is trash compared to an open intake and/or an M2 airbox

Agreed

After I did my inlet, I immediately noticed more top end power. I think I recorded about 15whp difference per VD
As far as the intake goes - I switched back to the Stock airbox and AFE (from the M2 airbox and AFE) and power, lag and response was so bad, I had to drive in SPORT to have the same throttle and feel that I did with the M2 airbox in Comforter.

This is very good for everyone to know.

TD;DR inlet works - works better if you’re running something better than the stock airbox.

[n55david]

No, no awd dyno near me here.

I seen no difference in boost, wgdc, maf readings etc so I didn't go beyond that.

[SuperLomi]

As far as I am aware back to back dyno runs with things like inlet/intake have always shown negligible gains on these car's. Basically with-in the error bars. While they may have some minor effect, they aren't "must have" items by any means.

I would wager any "butt dyno" analysis is most likely placebo effect.

The only reason I replaced my inlet pipe is I broke the mounting point when removing it while pulling my engine (like most people). And honestly I probably could have still used it even without that - but better safe than sorry. I went with the silicone CTS version, and it's flexibility has been great for installing the engine with it attached, and for accessing things with the intake removed.

Considering the MST and CTS inlets are basically identical as far as I can tell (and other reviews indicate) - and CTS sells for $100 to $130 less than MST, well...

[designatedposter]

ha, i had to speak up after seeing glowing review after glowing review of upgrading the inlet! however, there is something i have noticed in this thread.. all us naysayers have the CTS turbo inlet, and not the MST inlet which gets all the rave reviews...

bmw driven: so you DID reset your adaptations! let us know if you still feel all these benefits after a few drive cycles when the throttle response wears off...

AmuroRay you say that m2 airbox is superior to the stock airbox? the only difference is the hole cutout at the lower box, for which i have drilled out my stock airbox to replicate, and again, no difference. i am using stock filter though.

[n55david]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

ha, i had to speak up after seeing glowing review after glowing review of upgrading the inlet! however, there is something i have noticed in this thread.. all us naysayers have the CTS turbo inlet, and not the MST inlet which gets all the rave reviews...

bmw driven: so you DID reset your adaptations! let us know if you still feel all these benefits after a few drive cycles when the throttle response wears off...

AmuroRay you say that m2 airbox is superior to the stock airbox? the only difference is the hole cutout at the lower box, for which i have drilled out my stock airbox to replicate, and again, no difference. i am using stock filter though.

The cts and mst are literally the same thing. Cts flat out copied it and it's less expensive so yeah its the way to go if you want one.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by SuperLomi

As far as I am aware back to back dyno runs with things like inlet/intake have always shown negligible gains on these car's. Basically with-in the error bars. While they may have some minor affect, they aren't "must have" items by any means.

I would wager any "butt dyno" analysis is most likely placebo effect.

The only reason I replaced my inlet pipe is I broke the mounting point when removing it while pulling my engine (like most people). And honestly I probably could have still used it even without that - but better safe than sorry. I went with the silicone CTS version, and it's flexibility has been great for installing the engine with it attached, and for accessing things with the intake removed.

Considering the MST and CTS inlets are basically identical as far as I can tell (and other reviews indicate) - and CTS sells for $100 to $130 less than MST, well...

You just have a ton of bad takes - first it was intercoolers, and now it's intakes.
I know I come off as a jerk, but I really think you should do research before making blanket claims like you have.

First, let's address the inlet:

Pre vs Post inlet, Diverter, and intercooler 412hp to 421hp - 9hp


https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=20

I also have my own logs, with a 3% +/- reduction in WGDC.
The stock intake box is garbage, and it's even more restrictive when combined with an inlet:

Here is a WGDC comparison between the stock intake with stock inlet, Stock intake and MST inlet, and the MPPK (M2 airbox) and MST inlet:


Courtesy thejeremyman9

Again, this is not only measurable, but you can feel the difference. So now that we established the inlets work, lets move on to the next comment:
Intakes DON'T work.

Just looking at the stock airbox, you can see that there is one small opening to draw air from, and by opening the housing, you can drop surface pressure and draw in more air - you're not limited to the maximum flow of the small intake tract, and instead limited by filter surface area.

Again, referencing the WGDC log from above, the MMPK/M2 Box is superior to the stock airbox. Multiple dynos have been conducted on the tock car with a stock inlet to show that intakes on their own lower WGDC and increase power (BEFORE an inlet) and with an inlet, the effects are even better.

Intake ONLY dynos:
For your viewing pleasure:
BMS Intake:

Note there are gains at peak (3whp/17TQ at peak) and more gains before and after peak horsepower, and this is versus the superior MPPK/M2 Airbox (stock filter)

Here is another BMS intake dyno:

(Honestly, there are like a ton of these)

AFE vs M235i


Injen intake dyno:
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=988489 (no sheet)

Injen vs M2 (unknown if aftermarket filter)


Injen vs M235i


MST:


Finally, @thejeremyman9 did a FANTASTIC comparison between the M2 airbox with a AFE filter, an open filter intake (CTS) and an enclosed intake (Dinan) -
https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1765289

[AmuroRay]

So why the massive torque gains, an minimal gains at top?
I'm guessing a few things are happening -

The stock Turbo flows more at lower RPM, and that's why the gains are so much larger, and as the stock turbo reaches higher RPM, it's inot limited by the intake as much as it is by its smaller compressor.
You can aid the stock turbo in breathing better by adding an inlet AND intake, this will improve higher RPM power

So while a larger filter will give impressive torque and lower end power gains, it likely won't do as much at top end without an inlet - you really need both for them to be effective.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by designatedposter

ha, i had to speak up after seeing glowing review after glowing review of upgrading the inlet! however, there is something i have noticed in this thread.. all us naysayers have the CTS turbo inlet, and not the MST inlet which gets all the rave reviews...

bmw driven: so you DID reset your adaptations! let us know if you still feel all these benefits after a few drive cycles when the throttle response wears off...

AmuroRay you say that m2 airbox is superior to the stock airbox? the only difference is the hole cutout at the lower box, for which i have drilled out my stock airbox to replicate, and again, no difference. i am using stock filter though.

How big is your cut out?

[714BMW]

Originally Posted by BMW DRIVEN

Time to upgrade the intake system my friend. I think you will notice. Yes, huge pain in the ass that's why I just paid a mechanic. They broke my stock piece uninstalling too.

Yes, adaptations were reset to get rid of a shadow code after installing the inlet. Same tune Stage 2 E30.

Yeah, stock hpfp won't get me the max out the stock turbo. Currently, researching if I should go Dorch Stage 1 or 2 Pump. What pump did you go with? No ethanol?

Full E-85 with Dorch Stage 2 and stock lpfp? Who is your tuner?

Did you hit the dyno to compare stock to upgraded pipe?

Tuner is @keahih on IG. Been running Full E on stock lpfp and a DS2 for close to 6 months now and it's been treating me well. Although there has been some speculation that the lpfp could potentially be better in the M235i compared to those in the 335i/435i but i don't think that was ever confirmed.

But regarding the intake I guess that will be by next and final step towards becoming a "full bolt on bro". Although once the Cali sheriff pops my hood it is definitely game over lol

[n55david]

Originally Posted by 714BMW

Tuner is @keahih on IG. Been running Full E on stock lpfp and a DS2 for close to 6 months now and it's been treating me well. Although there has been some speculation that the lpfp could potentially be better in the M235i compared to those in the 335i/435i but i don't think that was ever confirmed.

But regarding the intake I guess that will be by next and final step towards becoming a "full bolt on bro". Although once the Cali sheriff pops my hood it is definitely game over lol

There are a few things on the m235 that seem to out perform the 3 series counterpart

[thejeremyman9]

Finally read this thread, although i have not watched the video yet. Thankfully Amuro already hit on most the points that i will cover, so let me just summarize:

- Inlet gains on a 100% stock intake system will be minimal. You need to (1) add MPPK lower airbox (or do a REAL replica but cutting the hole, not just drilling holes), and (2) add a filter, to truly take advantage of the inlet upgrade. If you add an inlet on stock intake you are just moving the restriction from the inlet to the intake. Improving both is what provides real gains, both in WGDC and in tangible throttle response/drivability.

- All my data was collected withOUT resetting adaptations, by the way. I only change one variable at a time in my tests. I wont speak to peak HP numbers because i run MHD, which is a load based tune, so i didnt expect or care about peak HP change, really just driveability and lower WGDC at the same HP.

Read and see photo album: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...&postcount=173

- The gains from an inlet, just like any intake modifications, are not going to be earth shattering. The throttle response to me, and many others, is immediately noticeable and tangible. But the car isnt going to "feel faster" once you are moving - i.e., minimal peak power gains, and within the variability of other things like atmospheric conditions and the DME randomly pulling 1-3 degrees of timing which can be 10-30hp or more. But for that first second you are on/off throttle there is a difference for sure, again with the combination of inlet and intake optimization.

My intake thread: https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1765289

- The MST and CTS do not change sound significantly, because they are silicone. Its the metal inlets that are really loud.

[SuperLomi]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

You just have a ton of bad takes

Honestly, I think you just like blowing my statements out of proportion.

When you review back to back dyno graphs you can often see variance in the power graph lines of up to 10hp, sometime more. Which is what I mean by "with-in the error bars". It's easy to manipulate dyno graphs to show relatively minor improvements.

You're inlet graphs aren't comparing JUST the inlet. It's inlet, diverter, and intercooler. Great. So what was the contribution from just the inlet? And for 9 hp.

Manufacturer chart's can be cheated by the above variance. So it's hard to trust completely. They have a vested interest in showing improvement. And again, relatively low gains.


As far as intakes are concerned:
Here's a graph that shows a BMS intake [blue] vs stock intake with a drop in filter (AFE) [green] (plus DP and IC on both). Red is bone stock.

The filter outperformed the BMS intake.



So I stand by:
"While they may have some minor effect, they aren't "must have" items by any means."

If you're goal is to squeeze every last drop from the car, sure go ahead. Or if you want the sound that comes with it. But these aren't "must have" items to make power.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by SuperLomi

So I stand by:
"While they may have some minor affect, they aren't "must have" items by any means."

If you're goal is to squeeze every last drop from the car, sure go ahead. Or if you want the sound that comes with it. But these aren't "must have" items to make power.

Here's how i would "categorize" the bolt ons and rank in order they should be done.

1. CP - most important for reliability
2. IC - most important for consistent performance/power delivery, and to a certain extent, safety and peak power
3. DP - only mod that really provides direct bolt on power gains all else being equal
4. inlet - most tangible improvement in drivability, when coupled with intake optimization
5. intake (aftermarket/open element) - personally would not do, mostly noise

[714BMW]

Originally Posted by n55david

There are a few things on the m235 that seem to out perform the 3 series counterpart

Oh i forgot to mention my tuner is an X5 35i who is also running full E on stock lpfp but just wanted to point it out. Not trying to go against your point because it could very well be true.

Sorry for going off topic

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by 714BMW

Oh i forgot to mention my tuner is an X5 35i who is also running full E on stock lpfp but just wanted to point it out. Not trying to go against your point because it could very well be true.

Sorry for going off topic

You say full E, but did you actually measure or test it? Some pumps put out 65-75%. LPFP limit in practice i around 70-75% for some people, although others get away with up to "full" E85 at 85%

[n55david]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

You say full E, but did you actually measure or test it? Some pumps put out 65-75%. LPFP limit in practice i around 70-75% for some people, although others get away with up to "full" E85 at 85%

The one by me went from 80% down to below 50% with no warning.. so it can be all over the place