[KTE]

Had a plan with KwikFit called geocare which allowed unlimited adjustments over 2 years, I would check up spring/summer.

Last check with KwikFit was July 21, went in March 22 prior to the plan expiring and they couldn’t make adjustments due to a “seized bolt in the bush” (a story in another thread), in short, the bolt needed some persuasion with a breaker bar.

Anyway, replaced the roll over strut arm, eccentric bolt, washers, nuts, and even the ball joint whilst the rear was all disconnected.

The car has since been to a different alignment shop 4 times to get the car driving straight. Rear aligned very easily each time, got the front unseized and since then has also been aligning well.

Noticed there is some camber difference between the two front sides, could this be a cause of the car slowly veering to the right on non cambered roads?

2 pics, July 21 and a few days ago.

July 2021:


April 2022:



Only thing to note is that the front right has had a new tyre, but that was prior to July 21, where all measurements were within spec and more importantly no noticeable veering/drifting to the right.

Steering wheel was very bad on the first few occasions, on the last visit they used a diagnostics tablet to reset the steering angle sensor. I personally saw to the wheel being locked into place dead centre.

No damage/accidents or notable potholes hit.

[Pentland]

Check the front tyre depths. The wheels can be aligned but a difference in tread can make a significant difference.

[Eddamoo]

On the left (earlier) image i could see why it may veer right. Your front left is toe-ing in significantly more than your front right. Uneven front toe is what will steer your car the most.

I had my car 'tracked' just a few weeks ago and I couldn't believe the incompetence of the operators. The car was not loaded with weight and the wheel sensors were set on the tyres and not the wheels themselves! The lazy sods couldnt be bothered to adjust them so just slap them on the sidewalls!! Needless to say i told them to stop and complained.

If your car is veering right, its significantly out as its also fighting road camber. That should be visible by just looking down the car as precisely as possible by lining your eye with your front alloy and move your head until the alloy just disappears (avoids parallax). Compare that angle at both sides - you can probably do it with a camera easily enough

[KTE]

Originally Posted by Pentland

Check the front tyre depths. The wheels can be aligned but a difference in tread can make a significant difference.

Will double check this, though unlikely as only a few hundred miles between the full set of 4 and the replacement tyre. Tyre pressures have been triple checked all round.

Originally Posted by Eddamoo

On the left (earlier) image i could see why it may veer right. Your front left is toe-ing in significantly more than your front right. Uneven front toe is what will steer your car the most.

I had my car 'tracked' just a few weeks ago and I couldn't believe the incompetence of the operators. The car was not loaded with weight and the wheel sensors were set on the tyres and not the wheels themselves! The lazy sods couldnt be bothered to adjust them so just slap them on the sidewalls!! Needless to say i told them to stop and complained.

If your car is veering right, its significantly out as its also fighting road camber. That should be visible by just looking down the car as precisely as possible by lining your eye with your front alloy and move your head until the alloy just disappears (avoids parallax). Compare that angle at both sides - you can probably do it with a camera easily enough

Yeah I agree, prior to the last visit it was ridiculously out and veering to the right whilst the steering whee was tilting to the left… always insist on a print out or seeing it on the screen.

Last alignment I was personally stood there by the car and screen, all values are within spec (aside from non adjustable front camber), which is 0.02 out of tolerance. There is a ~ 0.30 in camber between the fronts, wasn’t sure if this is enough to warrant a slow drift to the right on non cambered roads.

On cambered roads it is hard for it to drift, if at all (will do some more trips), but it’s on flat roads and enough to annoy me, therefore needs to be remedied.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by KTE

... prior to the last visit it was ridiculously out and veering to the right whilst slightly tilting to the left… always insist on a print out or seeing it on the screen.

....On cambered roads it is hard for it to drift, if at all (will do some more trips), but it’s only on flat roads but still enough to annoy me.

I'm a bit baffled by the events and the readouts.

What has happened to the car since the 31-7-21 alignment? The 'after' front cambers were well within spec' and almost identical. Something is now well adrift. Is there wear or damage? Something serious causes camber to change so much. I don't follow the other (recent) printout at all, it's as if it's from another vehicle, or there has been some major event, like severe pothole damage, to cause both front and rear to be so off.

Did it drive straight after that '21' alignment? When did the drift start?

What happens on the opposite camber... (right hand side of the road)?

[KTE]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I'm a bit baffled by the events and the readouts.

What has happened to the car since the 31-7-21 alignment? The 'after' front cambers were well within spec' and almost identical. Something is now well adrift. Is there wear or damage? Something serious causes camber to change so much. I don't follow the other (recent) printout at all, it's as if it's from another vehicle, or there has been some major event, like severe pothole damage, to cause both front and rear to be so off.

Did it drive straight after that '21' alignment? When did the drift start?

What happens on the opposite camber... (right hand side of the road)?

I have updated the main post, Kwikfit were unable to adjust the rear right side. As a future preventative measure and taking their word for it (“eccentric seized in bush”), I sourced the entire camber arm including the eccentric bolt, washer and nut for each side. On top of this I got the ball joints these arms connect into replaced. All new/original BMW parts. You can expect this to be the reason both rear camber readings are wildly out and do not correlate to each other.

Pre-July 2021:

Event 1: Tyre damaged climbing sidewalk <10cm to pass flooding, tyre sidewall damaged.

Event 2: Tyre replaced like for like, all tyres remained at >6.5mm, having been changed as a set of 4 in March 2020. Less than 800 miles in total between the full old set, and the replacement tyre. Same brand, and type. NON RF, * tyre.

Event 3: Once tyre replaced, visited Kwikfit under my plan to check alignment was in check, the printout shows only rears had gone out of spec. Aligned to be within spec.

March 2022:

Event 1: Visit to Kwikfit prior to my plan expiring, to ensure everything is in check.

Event 2: After a second visit, the rear right camber Bolt was too “difficult” to adjust due to it being “seized within the bush”

Event 3: Trusted the analysis due to previous good work, picked up rear roll over strut bars, including new fixings and ball joints.

Event 4: Both roll over strut bars (including pressed bush), full fixings and ball joint to rear hub carrier replaced.

March/April 2022:

Event 1 : Visit #1 to different alignment shop as my plan with Kwikfit had expired.

Print out from visit # 1





Post analysis of visit #1, I the driver am unhappy with the steering wheel “leaning” to the left, some degrees out.

Event 2: Visit #2, a different operator attempts to adjust the front as my description gave a diagnosis of toe being out. Attempts at adjusting Toe failed due to front right tie rod end being seized

Event 3: Garage managed to resolved said size being “seized”.

Event 4: Return visit #3 - another operator adjusts the front toe only.

Event 5: Ridiculously out, steering wheel, driving, alignment, everything!

Event 6: Visit #4 - show video of the car veering on a flat straight road, mention steering wheel off centre to drive straight.

Event 7: During visit #4, personally observe steering wheel being locked into position, car driven in straight onto the ramp, full tank (as always), full adjustments from rear to front.

Order, Rear left camber then toe, and so on.

Diagnosis tablet/kit used to reset steering angle sensor, wheel shakes whilst car is switched off by kit.



The confusion between posts would be my feel of the car in between visits.

On flat straight roads it will eventually veer, this isn’t a sudden drastic pull for clarity.

On cambered roads, within lane it will hold position with the steering wheel straight. The message is that the veering/drifting doesn’t exceed the cambered road, with the steering wheel in position.


I am the only driver, and check in on the vehicle so I am certain there have not been any incidents. The tyre side wall damage/replacement was prior to the July 2021 check, so is safely ruled out. The front camber is also affected by the full alignment of the vehicle as this seems to be changing regularly between scans/checks. Alignment #1 has -0.38 on the front left, which has now become -0.43 on the last alignment.

[Ennoch]

Is front camber adjustable on these cars? The difference between left of 2/3 deg on the left and none on the right would definitely cause an imbalance in the driving.

[HighlandPete]

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Still not adding up. Front cambers don't just go out of a near perfect spec. Remember there is very little physical adjustment possible, of front camber. New hubs are needed with correction + or - 30' machining, for out of spec' conditions.

Looking at the recent front printouts and seeing the change in cambers across the front, (one increased, the other decreased from the '21' results), it is as if there is something like subframe movement.

Certainly looks as if something is wrong. Any wear in the bushes, like the hydro bearing? What's the current mileage?

I'm also a bit suspicious of recalibrating the SAS, when there are clearly geo' calibrations out of tolerance. EPS must have a absolute zero to work correctly, but still depends on 'in tolerance' geo' settings, to drive straight.

Or... the alignment kit is out, and you are getting false readings.

[KTE]

Originally Posted by Ennoch

Is front camber adjustable on these cars? The difference between left of 2/3 deg on the left and none on the right would definitely cause an imbalance in the driving.

Non adjustable. Kwikfit reckon they slightly adjusted it one time, but no exact detail on this. Official stance and hardware says otherwise though.

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Still not adding up. Front cambers don't just go out of a near perfect spec. Remember there is very little physical adjustment possible, of front camber. New hubs are needed with correction + or - 30' machining, for out of spec' conditions.

Looking at the recent front printouts and seeing the change in cambers across the front, (one increased, the other decreased from the '21' results), it is as if there is something like subframe movement.

Certainly looks as if something is wrong. Any wear in the bushes, like the hydro bearing? What's the current mileage?

I'm also a bit suspicious of recalibrating the SAS, when there are clearly geo' calibrations out of tolerance. EPS must have a absolute zero to work correctly, but still depends on 'in tolerance' geo' settings, to drive straight.

Or... the alignment kit is out, and you are getting false readings.

I think the next step for elimination would be a reading on another machine. The 2nd picture in the main post was a follow up visit. So the before is literally a day prior, with all measurements out.

Assuming none of the front control arms affect camber in small degrees? Did spot the part you mention 31216858312, a lot of work as everything needs to be removed and fitted.

Do we think a -0.05 change between readings is acceptable on the same side of a non adjustable measurement (front left camber)?

Could one side affect both offset measurements now though? Even if it were to be a hydro bearing, assuming you’re referring to #7 here? Doesn’t this control caster? (Not too sure)

[ian332isport]

I think you need to go somewhere that really knows what they're doing. KwikFit are not exactly renowned for quality, and the second lot don't sound like they have a clue.

I don't think you can rely on any of your current printouts, as they may just be due to poor fitment of the sensor heads etc. It's unlikely the camber has actually changed significantly, so dodgy readings are probably due to dodgy mechanics.

[Ennoch]

I'd be a little unhappy with that level of inconsistency between readings; it points to either something failing in your suspension (like a bush) or their equipment is a bit knackered and has play in it.

I'd still be concerned about the positive camber measurement on the OSF, something is way out to be causing that, especially when the other side is 40 minutes (i.e 2/3rd of a degree). 2 degrees is visible to the naked eye. I'm running about 2.5 degrees on the front of the scoob and it's very visible, and you can feel about 10 minutes difference side to side when on road tyres (I've done a lot of DIY alignments over the years), so unless they got something very wrong, which I doubt as this would throw all the other measurements out too, something needs investigated more closely on that side. Top mounts would be the obvious one as any bush below that would likely give increased negative camber as it would allow the wheel to push out at the bottom. Or it's taken a hit on the bottom of the wheel which has then pushed it in, but if you are the only driver and something like that hasn't happened then it points back to something just failing through wear. Cars really can be a bastard at times.

All that said, speaking to a good local place (or even not so local if their reputation warrants it) will get you time with someone who knows what they're doing as a) they may highlight that the odd numbers are spurious through dodgy mechanics as others have suggested or b) will at least have the experience and knowledge to work out what bush is causing the issue (prying everything while looking at the readings). I've luckily found a very good place who are about £80 for a full hunter 4 wheel alignment to custom geo, but that's with fresh bolts on every joint they need to play with so no time wasted. Most places near me are garbage and either do a piss poor job, or don't entertain custom specs.

ETA: Abbey Motorsport are just outside the M25 and have a very good reputation in tuning circles across a wide range of manufacturers. Basically, shy away from the chains and aim for a place which does high end/motorsport stuff and explain the situation in advance. A lot of these places love the jobs that need a little investigation, although they do charge more for it.

[KTE]

Originally Posted by ian332isport

I think you need to go somewhere that really knows what they're doing. KwikFit are not exactly renowned for quality, and the second lot don't sound like they have a clue.

I don't think you can rely on any of your current printouts, as they may just be due to poor fitment of the sensor heads etc. It's unlikely the camber has actually changed significantly, so dodgy readings are probably due to dodgy mechanics.

Simple thought, and I’m very glad you mentioned it. but I was obviously too annoyed and kept going back to them to sort it!

Cannot express how important it is to just get check elsewhere if in doubt, before verging off (pun intended) and checking for part replacements!

This place had been recommended, and with decent online reviews. Will have a discussion about their equipment, we’ll see if any money is given back as a result of the shenanigans.

Hunter alignment (AFTER) shows there’s a small difference of 12 minutes. -0.33 and -0.21. Hopefully it’s sorted when I go on a few drives now.