[Porscha!]

Not sure if anyone can help me on this one!

I am looking to rent a shop either in a local town e.g. Matlock or possibly in the university (know there will be less trade but planning to do some internet business and rent should be a lot less)

What do I need to know before taking the plunge? Are prices negotiable or fixed?

Any help would be much appreciated!

[madman]

Yeah prices could be negotiable.

You would prob have to pay a bond/deposit which is refundable when the lease is up. Find out the notice you need to give to end the lease. 1 month is ideal if you can get it.

You need to know the lease duration, if you can re-model the shop and if so, if it has to be returned back to original state when you give it back.

Look into council tax and other rates, find out who supplies electric and water etc and look at their prices.

find out what if anything you are responsible for regarding repairs etc.

Best thing to do is get a copy of the contract and have a good read through it.

Good luck

[willhollin]

If you want a life don't have a shop.

[madman]

Originally Posted by willhollin

If you want a life don't have a shop.

Agreed!

Sell on ebay instead.

What are you looking to sell. Or is it for something else like a cafe or service etc?

[M3-FAST]

Porscha, what are you planning to do in this shop?

Have you found anywhere? Majority will be on lease agreements and you will be tying yourself in for prob a number of years (3 is common).

Do you have any idea on how much business tarriffs are for electricity/gas?

How much are the business rates?

How much is the insurance? Remember you are possibly going to need enough to cover public liability?

Maintainance costs and refurbishment costs?

Then add on telephone, broadband, leccy, gas, etc...

I guess if your at university you are going to employ staff? In that case your insurance will need to cover emplyers liabilty insurance also. Then you will have the dreaded NI and PAYE payments to cover.

Your accountant bills will start to roll in periodically and you may have to be VAT registered. This will ensure extra work every 3 months to do the quartely returns, before preparing your year end accounts to submit to companies house.

Oh, and no doubt you will want a salary out of it as well??

Sorry to say it Porscha and sound negative, but now is a VERY VERY bad time to start a business!

[Porscha!]

Hi thanks for all the imput.

What I'm hoping for is to rent a shop at the Kedleston Rd site of the university, as well as trading from there also on the internet.

Product is my own handmade gifts / jewellery / tops / handbags / cards / art etc. along with services associated e.g. Tell me all your important dates and I will send the cards, including Christmas, could be good for small businesses?

Basically offering bespoke products at the price of mass produced ones, not expensive but great quality for the price, therefore undercutting the bespoke = expensive people.

Students will of course be targeted with these products, unique but at a reasonable price. There is a girl at uni got the shop next door, a small womens clothing shop good stuff at resonable prices and she does well enough, I've had a long talk with her about it. Also local lady with a gift shop who does well enough, though her gifts are a little old fashioned, I would not be looking to compete with her though as she has a loyal fanbase lol, very clever in that when someone buys a gift she will make to order, take all their details then send out offers etc. Offering birthday service etc.

I know it is a very tough market at the moment but I am prescribing to the "if I can survive in this wait til the boom comes...." what goes down must come up?? Maybe, maybe not.

Red - thankyou for all your imput, you have been most helpful

Will have to look into somethings there but that is what it's all about I've a lot to learn.

Employing staff? No, I'm only at uni on Wednesdays and Thursday afternoons, on Wednesday my mum doesn't open her cafe so would be able to cover and on Thursday afternoon - ditto cafe is shut by 1pm.

If things go well enough to earn me a wage I won't bother going to uni next year or stay at Derby part time as a fall back.

Shouldn't earn enough to have to be VAT registered and will not have staff to worry about, so those complications shouldn't be there for the first year or so at least!

Basically I've got absolutely nothing to lose, I don't own my own home, I don't have an expensive car to pay for and I have no commitments whatsoever, in all honesty I've no desire to go to uni, get a job in an office I'd rather feel I'd achieved something myself and do something I enjoy.

[M3-FAST]

The main thing you need to do is work out the daily running costs of the shop.

Then work out the profit per item and see how many items per day you need to sell just to break even.

Then double that amount so you have some profit and working capital and to pay for things like web site costs.

Might be worth trying to establish a similar business working from home first and attending craft fayres etc before taking the plunge and opening a shop. I think you will be horrified how much you need to make (clear profit, not turnover) per day just to survive.

You also say you want to be found high on Google. Have you any idea how many thousands a MONTH firms pay to be number one on Google! Not a cheap thing to achieve! Then add on your on going web site costs. If you want to take credit cards you will have merchant costs involved also.

It is a tough world out there!

[NFS]

My advice would be not to consider spending money renting business premises unless you have a proper business plan.

To me you sound like a very entrepeneurial individual, full of ideas, but maybe less able to see them through to a profitable fruition.

My first thought is that you probably don't need premises to do what you are talking about, so if you haven't modelled the thing and worked out the upside then don't do it.

I reckon you need a bit of financial acumen / training to help you get your various business ideas of the ground.

Best way to get that would be to work for a decent company for a bit, see how the pro's do it then put that knowledge to work for yourself.

(by the way - in terms of web search optimisation - it aint that expensive. There are people who can get you very highly placed on page 1 for a fairly small fee)

[CD]

Originally Posted by willhollin

If you want a life don't have a shop.

... hmm, good advice

[Porscha!]

Originally Posted by redE93cab

The main thing you need to do is work out the daily running costs of the shop.

Then work out the profit per item and see how many items per day you need to sell just to break even.

Then double that amount so you have some profit and working capital and to pay for things like web site costs.

Might be worth trying to establish a similar business working from home first and attending craft fayres etc before taking the plunge and opening a shop. I think you will be horrified how much you need to make (clear profit, not turnover) per day just to survive.

You also say you want to be found high on Google. Have you any idea how many thousands a MONTH firms pay to be number one on Google! Not a cheap thing to achieve! Then add on your on going web site costs. If you want to take credit cards you will have merchant costs involved also.

It is a tough world out there!

Thanks

It's not really craft fair sort of stuff I do well not for round here anyway! Internet could certainly work but as you say it does cost a lot of money to be number 1 on google. From what I can see, more investigating does NEED to be done though from what I can see, a shop with a supplementary website shop would just about fit the bill, again I've made this post to investigate potential costs associated.

Income will be supplemented by usual Porscha car buying and selling, normally about 2 per month and I usually make about £250-500 on each car. Eventually this is what I want to do, always have done, specialising in Sports and Classics.

More or less worked out profit per item but need to work out overheads, again hence this post!

[M3-FAST]

Originally Posted by Porscha!

Thanks

It's not really craft fair sort of stuff I do well not for round here anyway! Internet could certainly work but as you say it does cost a lot of money to be number 1 on google. From what I can see, more investigating does NEED to be done though from what I can see, a shop with a supplementary website shop would just about fit the bill, again I've made this post to investigate potential costs associated.

Income will be supplemented by usual Porscha car buying and selling, normally about 2 per month and I usually make about £250-500 on each car. Eventually this is what I want to do, always have done, specialising in Sports and Classics.

More or less worked out profit per item but need to work out overheads, again hence this post!

What is profit per item if you dont mind me asking?

[Porscha!]

Originally Posted by NFS

My advice would be not to consider spending money renting business premises unless you have a proper business plan.

To me you sound like a very entrepeneurial individual, full of ideas, but maybe less able to see them through to a profitable fruition.

My first thought is that you probably don't need premises to do what you are talking about, so if you haven't modelled the thing and worked out the upside then don't do it.

I reckon you need a bit of financial acumen / training to help you get your various business ideas of the ground.

Best way to get that would be to work for a decent company for a bit, see how the pro's do it then put that knowledge to work for yourself.

(by the way - in terms of web search optimisation - it aint that expensive. There are people who can get you very highly placed on page 1 for a fairly small fee)

Thankyou, yes you are so right I'm not ashamed to admit it but I do have so many ideas. Maybe more a bad thing than a good one?! Theres only one that I really, really want to end up with though!

Yes I do indeed not have a lot of financial acumen I am the ideas and imaginative type of person! Reality and me don't like to meet too often but I am not that naive for my age either, had a few financial set backs to know that you can't just go gungho no prep into everything!!!

Totally understand where you are coming from about working for someone else but I just cannot do it, tried a few times all with good intent and hated it so much, hard to explain why, various reasons! I really am terrible at being an employee, not too bad at working for myself when I do things that are not my flavour of the week ideas but rather more things I really want to do, have sold things I made for while to friends etc. and used to at school once a week as part of a project and cars, I always make a bit every month selling them!!

[M3-FAST]

Originally Posted by NFS

(by the way - in terms of web search optimisation - it aint that expensive. There are people who can get you very highly placed on page 1 for a fairly small fee)

Nobody will get you to number one on Google for a 'small fee' I am afraid!

Google uses 'adwords' to get you high on the rankings which is pay-per-click. It all depends on your daily budget you allocate google. Whoever offers the highest pay-per-click will get to the top. Then they will stop there until their daily budget has been met (if they set one!)

A competitor of ours in the Test Equipment industry is ALWAYS number one on Google (search 'Fluke 1652' for example) - He runs a company called ISS. They only sell on the internet so google rankings are important to them. They spend between £2k and £3k per MONTH to keep that position maintained. Web site optimisation used to assist once upon a time, but nowadays it is all about feeding the greed of the search engine companies!

[willhollin]

Why not try something like interior design? That way you would not have many overheads.

[Porscha!]

Originally Posted by redE93cab

What is profit per item if you dont mind me asking?

Of course I don't mind you asking! It depends on which items

Anywhere from .75p to £17.00 I wrote everything down what it costs me and what I sell for (currently sell to friends etc.) and with stuff I don't sell currently what I would retail at.

Also know what I sell the most of as I have kept a folder with this and a folder for profit / estimated profit.

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by redE93cab

Nobody will get you to number one on Google for a 'small fee' I am afraid!

Google uses 'adwords' to get you high on the rankings which is pay-per-click. It all depends on your daily budget you allocate google. Whoever offers the highest pay-per-click will get to the top. Then they will stop there until their daily budget has been met (if they set one!)

A competitor of ours in the Test Equipment industry is ALWAYS number one on Google (search 'Fluke 1652' for example) - He runs a company called ISS. They only sell on the internet so google rankings are important to them. They spend between £2k and £3k per MONTH to keep that position maintained. Web site optimisation used to assist once upon a time, but nowadays it is all about feeding the greed of the search engine companies!

Is your business wholesale or retail mate?

[M3-FAST]

Originally Posted by willhollin

Is your business wholesale or retail mate?

Both, we supply to electrical wholesalers all over the UK, and also to end-user electricians who deal with us direct.

[Porscha!]

Originally Posted by willhollin

Why not try something like interior design? That way you would not have many overheads.

Problem is with that business you either have to be able to DIY OR know a man who can, surely?!

The last tme I drew up anything that looked like Architectual Plans was when I shortly worked for a Construction company after I left school! Proper interior / venue designers know how to draw up top notch plans and the others are one man bands who have excellent DIY skills, not me!!

[willhollin]

Originally Posted by Porscha!

Problem is with that business you either have to be able to DIY OR know a man who can, surely?!

The last tme I drew up anything that looked like Architectual Plans was when I shortly worked for a Construction company after I left school! Proper interior / venue designers know how to draw up top notch plans and the others are one man bands who have excellent DIY skills, not me!!

I thought they just drew up ideas for how rooms should look and then Mr Decorator did the painting and you chucked a few cushions and candles round the place!

[Porscha!]

Originally Posted by willhollin

I thought they just drew up ideas for how rooms should look and then Mr Decorator did the painting and you chucked a few cushions and candles round the place!

You been watching too much Changing Rooms??!

The proper interior designers (from what very limited experience I know about them) have to beable to draw up plans, models etc. 3D CAD I presume??

Of said rooms, certain things will have to comply with all kinds of rules and regulations, then you would have to project manage said Mr. Dec and Mr. Spark and Mr. Plumb. Source bespoke items, get client to approve all. Find next client! Market and advertise business against all other competitors as being the most original, most creative, most stylish, most get the work done to deadlines Interior Designer!

This is what I imagine a real world Interior Designer does, of course I maybe wrong ....

[RockIt]

Hi Porscha

I'm not in business, have never worked in retail or had any desire to. However, I've known a lot of people with great ideas and little experience suffer greatly by jumping in too soon too quickly. One thing I do know from experience in a very demanding and ever changing working environment is that small steps, well conceived plans and realistic goals reap rewards. My sister-in-law designs and makes lovely individual pieces of jewellery and lives in a very affluent area of Yorkshire where such things are very sought after. She established a small but loyal client base through dedicated networking via colleagues and friends. She has recently taken a short term lease on a small shop in Ilkley, shared with 2 partners who offer high quality, individual art, craft and 'chintz' to the twin set and pearl crowd that reflect the main customer base. She is in her late 40s, her partners in their late 30s and 50s. They are all struggling to make a sensible return in the current financial market, in an affluent and stable area.

My advice, for what it's worth. Be ambitious. Have a dream. But be realistic and realise that you have a lot of well meaning advice on this forum from very, very experienced people who know exactly what they're talking about. Take a step back, think hard and direct your considerable energy and enthusiasm towards your university studies. Time will allow you to explore other avenues of income and you never know what's round the corner...but don't be too eager! Ditch the shop idea

Enjoy your classics, be individual and make the most of being in your 20s before you tie yourself down to something you might regret.

[RockIt]

All the above posted in the spirit of good red wine and a substantial amount of serious rock music and bloody good bourbon. Cheers!