[peterpeterhaha]

I think that has got to be the most ridiculous option that should come free. I mean honestly, I really think that is not something they should charge for. I love my car and all but some things should come with a 40k car.

[ska///235i]

yea..and I wish Sport Pkg, Premium Pkg, logic 7...etc is free
Nothing is free my friend

[ward]

why don't you think of it as you don't have to pay for it if you don't need it?

it's a chance to save money AND have a stiffer body structure

if you want a car that drives like a BMW, then pay the price.

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by ska

yea..and I wish Sport Pkg, Premium Pkg, logic 7...etc is free
Nothing is free my friend

Yeah, they should remove the cruise control, power windows, cd player, radio, automatic wipers, and power locks as well.

The point is that consumers have come to expect those features, and many consumers expect leather to be standard, or a no-cost option in an entry level "luxury" sports-sedan.

[croaker]

Originally Posted by ska

yea..and I wish Sport Pkg, Premium Pkg, logic 7...etc is free
Nothing is free my friend

Nothing except smart ass replies apparently.

Folding seats should be standard as should a car alarm. Comparable cars include these features as standard. To be fair though, all cars have a list of “extras” that should probably be standard. They know that they can get a little more out of you for them, so they do. BMW’s just seem a little more asinine. Germans.

[BMW F22]

haha yeah- I was surprised to find that alarm is not standard. I got a $42k car and no alarm!!!!! oh well...

[shragon]

i am one to agree that something like folding rear seats should be standard.

[visor]

Welcome to BMW!
They already know their cars sell themselves, so can't blame them for getting more nickel and dimes out of us...

[jasper]

I wonder if it has to do with structural integrity? Maybe people who race there cars would rather keep that structural member of the car???

[Asiann]

I too agree that seats and alarms should come standard paying that much. I also hate the fact that BMW does not have to sell the car like many others. There is really no competition in that aspect.

[E90330iS]

Originally Posted by croaker

Nothing except smart ass replies apparently.

Very smart comment!

[JBOO]

The side of me that wants everything I can get for free definitely believes fold down seats should be standard. However, I'd rather have some things as an option if I can get the car a few thousand cheaper. Especially those items I could live without if on a budget. Also, it's hard to blame BMW when the cars in they sell in Germany, Netherlands, etc come with very little standard and everything is ordered ala carte. It is quite amusing to explain why your 40-50K car doesn't have otpions that 15-20K cars do.

[maq]

Originally Posted by croaker

Folding seats should be standard

Now that's a feature that I'd really, really hate to see standard on a BMW.

Without fold-down seatbacks, there's a solid sheet of metal that is part of the frame between the cabin and trunk. By having access to the cabin from the trunk, that area is entirely empty, making the car less rigid and has more flex under cornering. I realize people do haul big stuff in the trunk of their BMWs, but there are also those of us who do need every bit of extra body rigidity, and that big hole in the frame cannot be reinforced by mega-dollar tower braces.

It's a sports sedan, so please, keep things like the fold-down seats and moonroof off the standard feature list. A no-cost option? Fine by me.

[BMW F22]

Completely agree with JBOO. BMW makes great cars. However, it's hard to justify why the E90 ( a sport luxury sedan) doesnt have features that are standard on even a $13k car (e.g. corollas). Features like Nav, Step, and the packages are options because everyone wants something different. Those will save allow you to buy a car you want for less (no unnecessary options). But options like folding seats and alarms should def. be standard. Those hardly save you thousands on the car. I dont know, I guess we dont really need an alarm but it's hard to swallow the fact that a sport LUXURY car doesnt have alarm as a standard feature.

[croaker]

Originally Posted by maq

It's a sports sedan, so please, keep things like the fold-down seats and moonroof off the standard feature list. A no-cost option? Fine by me.

That is a good compromise.

[Pretender]

Sun roof shouldn't be a standard...like other cars and also fog lights....what else...rain sensor? Whatever, complain too much...

[croaker]

Originally Posted by Pretender

Sun roof shouldn't be a standard...like other cars and also fog lights....what else...rain sensor? Whatever, complain too much...

What?

[peterpeterhaha]

Originally Posted by croaker

What?

what indeed...


I didn't mean to disagree that bmw makes a great car but I just believed that folding seats, as well as alarm and some other features should come standard with the car. Those are things that we have come to expect of most cars these days. I mean many honda/acura cars come with satellite radio and a free trial. Small things like that could make the car so much more appealing and improve customer satisfaction. Still I am very thankful for things like the adaptive headlights and such.

btw I doubt that folding seats really have that much to do with structural integrety.

[maq]

Originally Posted by peterpeterhaha

btw I doubt that folding seats really have that much to do with structural integrety.

Like I explained, it's not the seats themselves that make the difference, it's the lack of a full trunk partition (aka metal wall). Doubt it all you want, here are the torsional rigidity numbers (measured in Nm per degree) for E46 3er:

Sedan (w/o folding seats): 18000Nm/deg of torsion
Sedan (w/folding seats): 13000Nm
Sport wagon (w/folding seats): 14000Nm
Coupe (w/folding seats): 12500Nm
Convertible: 10500Nm

As you can see, a chassis is significantly more rigid without the folding seats (with the metal wall in place). As the car sees track use, and as the body/chassis ages, the difference is pretty noticeable. It's also why a non-sunroof car with a one-piece rear bench is preferred for a race/track car conversion.

[croaker]

Originally Posted by maq

Like I explained, it's not the seats themselves that make the difference, it's the lack of a full trunk partition (aka metal wall). Doubt it all you want, here are the torsional rigidity numbers (measured in Nm per degree) for E46 3er:

Sedan (w/o folding seats): 18000Nm/deg of torsion
Sedan (w/folding seats): 13000Nm
Sport wagon (w/folding seats): 14000Nm
Coupe (w/folding seats): 12500Nm
Convertible: 10500Nm

As you can see, a chassis is significantly more rigid without the folding seats (with the metal wall in place). As the car sees track use, and as the body/chassis ages, the difference is pretty noticeable. It's also why a non-sunroof car with a one-piece rear bench is preferred for a race/track car conversion.

Your just making up numbers aren't you Mr. Smarty McSmarticson? I know for a fact that the convertible should be 10650Nm. Jeeze my 10 year old knows that.

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by maq

Now that's a feature that I'd really, really hate to see standard on a BMW.

Without fold-down seatbacks, there's a solid sheet of metal that is part of the frame between the cabin and trunk. By having access to the cabin from the trunk, that area is entirely empty, making the car less rigid and has more flex under cornering. I realize people do haul big stuff in the trunk of their BMWs, but there are also those of us who do need every bit of extra body rigidity, and that big hole in the frame cannot be reinforced by mega-dollar tower braces.

It's a sports sedan, so please, keep things like the fold-down seats and moonroof off the standard feature list. A no-cost option? Fine by me.

Sorry, but you are wrong

There is NO structural difference between the standard rear seat and Folding rear seat versions of the E90.

E46 and backwards had differences, but not with the E90.

The torsinal stiffness of the E90 is the same with both seat options

[E90Fleet]

Originally Posted by maq

As you can see, a chassis is significantly more rigid without the folding seats (with the metal wall in place). As the car sees track use, and as the body/chassis ages, the difference is pretty noticeable. It's also why a non-sunroof car with a one-piece rear bench is preferred for a race/track car conversion.

The Sunroof roof is actually stiffer than the non-sunroof one.

The sunroof one has 4 structural bars, whereas the non-sunroof one only has 2.

The Sunroof though makes the centre of gravity of the car higher, which isnt waht you want on a track car.